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whty98
03-23-2008, 03:27 PM
So one week when I go home I'm going to finally install my MM caster/camber plates. My question is when I go get an alignment, would it matter if I still had my stock struts?? I'm going for Bilstein's this summer but I don't want to get two alignments in two monthes time. Would new struts need a new alignment? Or old stuts hurt the alignment? I have 124xxx miles so I'm def getting new struts with my H&R SS.

Any suggestions on getting an alignmet, I'll give them the instuctions that came with the plates to know the setting for street use...anything else

Javi
03-23-2008, 03:42 PM
I didnt need new alignment after i changed one strut and i already had my CC plates installed.




So NO i wont think so

ReplicaR
03-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Springs dictate how high the car sits, not struts. If you change over to new struts, nothing will change.

SRT Handz
03-24-2008, 11:56 AM
struts dont effect alignment.... you can swap out stuts without getting an alignment

realitygt
03-24-2008, 12:36 PM
Springs dictate how high the car sits, not struts. If you change over to new struts, nothing will change.


sometimes people who switch from sn95 to fox struts will have a .25 to .5 drop in height. it happened to alot of people on here.

just get a lifetime alignment at firestone and go there all the time, if you get 2 alignment on it it pays for it self.

ReplicaR
03-24-2008, 02:18 PM
We are talking about struts for same year and model. Not mix/match parts off other cars or custom shortened struts.

SRT Handz
03-24-2008, 03:00 PM
We are talking about struts for same year and model. Not mix/match parts off other cars or custom shortened struts.


+1

If your using Fox it may be different

whty98
03-25-2008, 04:50 PM
Springs dictate how high the car sits, not struts. If you change over to new struts, nothing will change.


sometimes people who switch from sn95 to fox struts will have a .25 to .5 drop in height. it happened to alot of people on here.

just get a lifetime alignment at firestone and go there all the time, if you get 2 alignment on it it pays for it self.


Firestone has a lifetime alignment?? Too bad I'm doing the work in the middle of no where!!

Thanks for the info. Glad I don't have to shell out more cash all at once

ReplicaR
03-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I bought lifetime alignment from them when I installed MM caster/camber plates. I figured that since the car sees quite a bit of track driving I will be adjusting and testing a lot of suspension settings. Regular alignment was 70 dollars and lifetime alignment was 170. I've redone my alignment about 4 times already, so the lifetime thing paid for itself once over. The settings right now are sweet.

Conechaser
04-21-2008, 08:04 AM
Yeah, I bought lifetime alignment from them when I installed MM caster/camber plates. I figured that since the car sees quite a bit of track driving I will be adjusting and testing a lot of suspension settings. Regular alignment was 70 dollars and lifetime alignment was 170. I've redone my alignment about 4 times already, so the lifetime thing paid for itself once over. The settings right now are sweet.


What alignment settings are you at now? I'm heading in for an alignment in the next day or so and could use someones setup to compare to.

It seems we have the same mindset. Suspension, brakes, and cooling first for the track... then comes horsepower.

ReplicaR
04-21-2008, 11:46 AM
When I was doing a baseline setup on the car, I called Maximum Motorsports, and asked them what would be an ideal setup given my situation (~22k miles and 6 track days a year). They said that I should start off with -1.0 degrees of camber, 5 degrees of caster and 1/8th of toe in. After several track days, and small adjustments, I found that -1.4 camber/ 5.5 caster and 1/8th of toe in worked good for me. The tire gets worn evenly, and at the track it maintains a good very good contact patch, looked to me like it was using the whole tire in front.

Remember though, that I do road racing, so if you are more of an autocross person, so you will need a different setup.

Conechaser
04-21-2008, 02:27 PM
When I was doing a baseline setup on the car, I called Maximum Motorsports, and asked them what would be an ideal setup given my situation (~22k miles and 6 track days a year). They said that I should start off with -1.0 degrees of camber, 5 degrees of caster and 1/8th of toe in. After several track days, and small adjustments, I found that -1.4 camber/ 5.5 caster and 1/8th of toe in worked good for me. The tire gets worn evenly, and at the track it maintains a good very good contact patch, looked to me like it was using the whole tire in front.

Remember though, that I do road racing, so if you are more of an autocross person, so you will need a different setup.


What suspension mods do you have? Camber plates?

I picked up my 97 GT last November and it came with a bunch of MM parts already on it: camber plates, panhard bar, springs (I have to check on what ones) and front sway bar. It will become mainly a track car but I'm doing local AutoX events now to learn to drive it before I start heading to the track later this year.

ReplicaR
04-21-2008, 03:24 PM
AutoX and road racing are very different in setups and driving styles, so you don't do one to become better at the other or even prep for the other.

My setup is very mild: Koni Sport Single Adjustable shocks, H&R Race springs, MM Caster Camber plates, MM XL subframe connectors, stock everything else. It works *****in' at the track though and it's supple on the street, so I'm not complaining.

Conechaser
04-21-2008, 03:50 PM
AutoX and road racing are very different in setups and driving styles, so you don't do one to become better at the other or even prep for the other.

My setup is very mild: Koni Sport Single Adjustable shocks, H&R Race springs, MM Caster Camber plates, MM XL subframe connectors, stock everything else. It works *****in' at the track though and it's supple on the street, so I'm not complaining.


Thanks for the info. We are fairly similar except that I have a panhard bar but no subframes (yet) I also have Tokico Illuminas. Do you change/adjust your camber when you go to the track and then back to a street setting afterwards or just keep it the same all the time?

I'm so used to how a low powered FWD cars work that any competitive seat time in the Mustang is a big help to me. I'm not going to set the Mustang up for AutoX events but they are helping me figure the car out as I haven't driven anything RWD in almost 15 years. The car will be primarily used for NASA Time Trials (TTE), track days, and BMWCCA DE. I will be honest though, I do suggest to prospective track drivers to do some AutoX events as it helps them with car control, how to look ahead, and improves their ability to read a track and find the line. AutoX drivers can make very good racers... it doesn't always work the other way around however.

ReplicaR
04-21-2008, 06:36 PM
I keep the same alignment year round. I figure that I'm not competing out there, and I'm just there to have good time and drive fast and safe. If I wanted to get really anal about alignment, I'd get a laser thermometer, and record the tire temperatures on front wheels at three points: inside, center, outside. Higher contact patch temperature means that patch was working harder than others, so you record that on each side and adjust tire pressure and static camber to get the most tire on the track surface. Then, I'd record the best results, and save all that info in a log somewhere, so I could come and have the car aligned to those specs to each track I'd go to. I would do that, if let's say I was competing, and I wanted to get absolutely everything out of the car.

Now, here is reality. I'm a full time university student, who has two part time jobs. As you can see, free time is not the luxury that I have. So when I found an alignment that works both on and off the track, I called it a day.

Conechaser
06-17-2008, 04:28 PM
When I was doing a baseline setup on the car, I called Maximum Motorsports, and asked them what would be an ideal setup given my situation (~22k miles and 6 track days a year). They said that I should start off with -1.0 degrees of camber, 5 degrees of caster and 1/8th of toe in. After several track days, and small adjustments, I found that -1.4 camber/ 5.5 caster and 1/8th of toe in worked good for me. The tire gets worn evenly, and at the track it maintains a good very good contact patch, looked to me like it was using the whole tire in front.

Remember though, that I do road racing, so if you are more of an autocross person, so you will need a different setup.


I thought I would check back to this thread to report on how things are going on my car after a few events since it's alignment.

I had them measure the specs when the camber was set to maximum in either direction so I know my range of adjustments.

"street setting" at least neg. camber (strut tops out toward the fenders)
-1.7 degrees camber
+5.0 degrees caster
1/8th toe in


"AutoX setting" at most neg. camber (strut tops in toward the engine)
-3.0 degrees camber
+5.0 degrees caster
1/8 toe out.

For AutoX, the car is pretty neutral, turns in well, and I think I'm really getting a handle on this heavy pig (compared to my 2300lb Civic) I also really like my Dunlop Direzza Z1 tires!

At the track, I've only had one opportunity to run there so far. I may have too much camber for the track but I was not able to take meaningful tire temps. (wet track with big puddles in pit entrance then the starter broke before it dried out) Again, the car went where I wanted it to go without any drama (other than the uber slick turn 9-10 area) Next track day I'll really try to get the tire temps done and tweak the camber accordingly. I most likely will be running much less camber like you are... probably not much off my "street" setting


I missed this post before:


struts dont effect alignment.... you can swap out stuts without getting an alignment

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_cam_bolt.jpg
Yah, it'll be close to where it was... but I sure would do an alignment after changing struts.

ReplicaR
06-17-2008, 05:38 PM
Good to see you post. See if you can get more positive caster out of that setup. The more caster you have, the more negative camber you will gain when the wheel is turned. 6 degrees is usually pretty good, but you will more than likely need bumpsteer kit to fix the bumpsteer travel when you pull the caster that far.

I'm actually going to retire Mustang from street daily duty very soon, I'm actually thinking about taking my own advice and getting a leveler and a laser thermometer, so I could align the car at the pits, to better adapt the car to the each individual track. That way I will waste about a track day per track, but I will have alignment specs for every track I need, along with shock settings and, if I end up picking that adjustable sway bar from EvM, sway bar settings as well

Conechaser
06-17-2008, 06:14 PM
Good to see you post. See if you can get more positive caster out of that setup. The more caster you have, the more negative camber you will gain when the wheel is turned. 6 degrees is usually pretty good, but you will more than likely need bumpsteer kit to fix the bumpsteer travel when you pull the caster that far.

I'm actually going to retire Mustang from street daily duty very soon, I'm actually thinking about taking my own advice and getting a leveler and a laser thermometer, so I could align the car at the pits, to better adapt the car to the each individual track. That way I will waste about a track day per track, but I will have alignment specs for every track I need, along with shock settings and, if I end up picking that adjustable sway bar from EvM, sway bar settings as well


Yah, I wasn't as happy about the caster setting... but it was the max we could get to keep each side even. There is a bolt that one of the caster/camber plate is hitting on one side of the car (I forget which it is at the moment) I need to trim a little bit off so I can get some more caster. I think close to 6 degrees is possible. There were some more important issues that need/needed to be dealt with before I get to that item. My Mustang is not a daily driver so I can take it a bit further toward the aggressive side of life. I still need to drive it to and from events though.