Koni Yellow's FOR THE WIN!

Ciotti

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Koni single adjustables went on the Cobra this weekend and my god what a difference they made vs. the Tokiko Blues. The compression dampening is set and much stiffer than the Tokiko Blues that were on the car which makes turn in MUCH crisper and got rid of a lot of the instant front end brake dive which has made threshold braking oh so much easier. The rebound dampening is adjustable but even on full soft it is much better than the Tokiko's were at managing the weight of my big fat vert. I'm just starting to screw around (literally and figuratively) with changing the rebound so I'll have to report back on how that goes, but my initial impression is that it's going to be really nice to be able to fine tune this exactly how I want it for weekly daily driving and then crank it up for fun on the weekends and dial it in for each track layout/venue I'm at.


The car now rides much better on the street over bumps and pot holes most likely because the Tokiko's were underdampened for my stiffer spring rates(750 front and 275 rear) and the Cobra now rides a lot more like my girlfriend's 08' Jetta in that it sucks up bumps without upsetting the entire car. Instead of banging over every bump and slamming the wheels down into pot holes, the dampening controls the suspension so much better that I just cruise over bumps that used to knock the car all over the bloody road. There are 2 recessed manhole covers in particular that I hit every single day on the way home where previously they would send 2 wheels well over the dotted line into the other lane and now the car just goes thump thump with no drama at all and keeps on cruising dead straight.


There isn't any mod that I've done other than the MM full length subframe connectors that made this much of a positive difference to everything about the car, it brakes better, is more comfortable, and turns in so much nicer than it ever has. I'm also really happy that the bump/compression is set and not adjustable as it prevents me from banging my head into the wall trying to figure out how to get that set properly.


I bought them from Sam Strano (08' National Autocross driver of the year) at Strano Performance Parts www.stranoparts.com up by Valley Forge, PA and not only were his prices great but he gave me a bunch of super helpful tech help over the phone and killer customer service when the $hit hit the fan and I needed the order to go out in a hurry to make it here in time for the install.


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Javi

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Oh yeah!!

I have them too and they are the best.
 
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Ciotti

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duff daddy said:
the only thing i dont like is how they say firm not numbers

There can't be numbers because they're infinitely adjustable, they spin 2 1/2 turns from full stiff to full soft and you can feel a difference in the ride when adjusting quarter turns at a time. You go a quarter turn at a time until your ride is perfect and then you can do 1/8th turns either way until it's absolutely perfect.
 

duff daddy

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ooooh im just thinking of the tokicos where they ahve a dial like a clock 1-5 on mine ... cool though look good and ive def heard a lot of good things about thoes shocks
 

ReplicaR

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I've been using Koni SA's for over a year now, and I really like the shocks. I run them at full soft on the street, and tune for best valving at the track. They do ride excellent on street, and I'm running H&R Super Race equivalent Coilover front/Standard spring rear. When you're going to tune at the track, you have to set the shocks by the feel. Don't go full stiff, because there is no need for overvalving the shock. Start at half turn, and throw it around some corners. Look for the signs of wheel hop. It will be easy to tell, because you'll feel like the grip is getting choppy and feels like your wheels are bouncing like a ball. Proceed to adjust the shock until wheel hop is gone.

Edit: You should really consider getting a panhard bar kit installed as your next modification. I've been watching your videos, and you could really benefit from it, because you will eliminate thrust angle (less understeer), and stabilize your rear by a good deal. Last I checked it was ESP legal.


duff daddy said:
the only thing i dont like is how they say firm not numbers

There is no need for numbers, because Konis don't adjust in clicks but rather in quarter circle turns. Every 90 degree turn counter clockwise turns up the stiffness.
 
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Ciotti

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ReplicaR said:
I've been using Koni SA's for over a year now, and I really like the shocks. I run them at full soft on the street, and tune for best valving at the track. They do ride excellent on street, and I'm running H&R Super Race equivalent Coilover front/Standard spring rear. When you're going to tune at the track, you have to set the shocks by the feel. Don't go full stiff, because there is no need for overvalving the shock. Start at half turn, and throw it around some corners. Look for the signs of wheel hop. It will be easy to tell, because you'll feel like the grip is getting choppy and feels like your wheels are bouncing like a ball. Proceed to adjust the shock until wheel hop is gone.

Edit: You should really consider getting a panhard bar kit installed as your next modification. I've been watching your videos, and you could really benefit from it, because you will eliminate thrust angle (less understeer), and stabilize your rear by a good deal. Last I checked it was ESP legal.

I'm actually going with a Faye 2 watts link as opposed to a panhard as soon as I get a functioning (most likely an Eaton) rear diff and ESP legal rear gears (3.55's) installed which should be within the next 2 months or so. The rear axle slop is much better now that I had brand new upper control arms installed with these Koni's as the ones that were in there had 160,000 miles on them and the axle side bushings were completely destroyed. I also have poly lower control arm bushings on the way that I'm going to have put in the OEM lowers to help control the fore and aft movement of the axle when the watts link goes on. I know they will cause more bind when the axle articulates than the factory rubber bushings but I'm using that bind as free spring rate because I don't want to go super stiff with the rear springs :)
 

Magic

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Ciotti said:
I'm actually going with a Faye 2 watts link as opposed to a panhard as soon as I get a functioning (most likely an Eaton) rear diff and ESP legal rear gears (3.55's) installed which should be within the next 2 months or so. The rear axle slop is much better now that I had brand new upper control arms installed with these Koni's as the ones that were in there had 160,000 miles on them and the axle side bushings were completely destroyed. I also have poly lower control arm bushings on the way that I'm going to have put in the OEM lowers to help control the fore and aft movement of the axle when the watts link goes on. I know they will cause more bind when the axle articulates than the factory rubber bushings but I'm using that bind as free spring rate because I don't want to go super stiff with the rear springs :)

So with a watts link like the Fays2, it would be better to back to a stock style LOWER control arm (stamped) instead of an aftermarket unit (tubular style with urethane bushings)? Or does it apply to more agressive cornering that an Auto-X would induce?

Im not that big on the Auto cross stuff, but would like the ass end to stop its side to side movement on the street and for the rear end to be stable for high speed free way runs. I was looking at the Fays2 for a WattsLink OR a Panhard bar setup from either Griggs or MM.

I like the fact that the FAYS2 unit is pretty much a bolt in affair.
 

ReplicaR

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Deflection is not your friend, period. If I were you, I'd get some lower control arms with Poly bushings on chassis side, and rod end on the axle side. This way you still get to keep the bind free movement, and NVH is not an issue.

I've looked at Fays2 setup, and it looks like it will work pretty well, but the only thing I don't like about it is how chunky and huge it is. Panhard bar setup allows plenty of space to access the rear diff, and what's more it will also clear the aftermarket diff cover, which Fays2 setup most certainly will not.
 
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Ciotti

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Magic said:
So with a watts link like the Fays2, it would be better to back to a stock style LOWER control arm (stamped) instead of an aftermarket unit (tubular style with urethane bushings)? Or does it apply to more agressive cornering that an Auto-X would induce?

The only reason I'm staying with factory stamped lower control arms is because the rules of the class I run in (ESP) require that I keep them in place but I can replace the bushings with poly which I will be doing. The best set up is to go with an aftermarket LCA that has a spherical bushing on the chassis side to allow full articulation and polyurethane on the axle side such as the Maximum Motorsport Heavy Duty LCA's.


ReplicaR said:
Deflection is not your friend, period. If I were you, I'd get some lower control arms with Poly bushings on chassis side, and rod end on the axle side. This way you still get to keep the bind free movement, and NVH is not an issue.

I've looked at Fays2 setup, and it looks like it will work pretty well, but the only thing I don't like about it is how chunky and huge it is. Panhard bar setup allows plenty of space to access the rear diff, and what's more it will also clear the aftermarket diff cover, which Fays2 setup most certainly will not.

I really wish I could do aftermarket LCA's with sphericals but rules are rules as you can see above :( I was always interested in doing a watts link because it gives you the same roll center when turning left and right unlike a panhard. After talking to Sam Strano (F Stock champion 3 years running and 2008 SCCA National driver of the year) who drives these cars nationally about it he explained that the advantages more than outweigh the slight increase in weight and it actually gives you more rear tail pipe clearance than the panhard which is important to me because this is still a street car and will always have tail pipes. It's what he runs and if it's good enough for him to beat everyone else in the US with, it's good enough for me :) All things considered, either will work just fine but everyone does the panhard bar and the watts is not that much more money for something that has a few advantages that I will benefit from so I figure what the hell, you only live once right?
 

ReplicaR

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Key to Strano's success is not his watts link. That guy's been winning classes in everything he had, which included an F-body before the Shelby GT he has currently. Also, it is pretty hard to make tail pipes work with both of the kits. I had to take the car to exhaust shop, and have them make new tips from nothing, because Bassani tips would not work at all. I suspect that you might have to do the same with Fays2.

When I did the panhard kit, to me it was all about the best deal I could find. I found my kit used on Corner-Carvers for 170 dollars shipped, which is why I went with it. Autocross is more about traction in my opinion than finetuning roll centers, and I think you should really get a proper set of ESP legal tires and a LIGHT set of wheels before you get all mad with roll centers and geometry.
 
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Ciotti

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ReplicaR said:
Key to Strano's success is not his watts link. That guy's been winning classes in everything he had, which included an F-body before the Shelby GT he has currently. Also, it is pretty hard to make tail pipes work with both of the kits. I had to take the car to exhaust shop, and have them make new tips from nothing, because Bassani tips would not work at all. I suspect that you might have to do the same with Fays2.

When I did the panhard kit, to me it was all about the best deal I could find. I found my kit used on Corner-Carvers for 170 dollars shipped, which is why I went with it. Autocross is more about traction in my opinion than finetuning roll centers, and I think you should really get a proper set of ESP legal tires and a LIGHT set of wheels before you get all mad with roll centers and geometry.

Oh agreed %100 about Sam, I wasn't trying to say that the watts is the reason he won, I was more saying that when he gives me advice on what works best I take it and run like hell with it because it's based on real world data that he has gathered while winning ya know?


I've been planning on going to a Mac cat back for some time now and he says the Faye2 watts will clear that right out of the box with no problem but the MM panhard (which is the one I would get) gets very close to it because of how long they made the bar (which is good for the roll center but bad for us tail pipe lovers(which sounds really bad hahaha)).

$170 for a panhard is an AWESOME deal and believe me there have been times that I tell myself I'm stupid to not save the money and just go that route. But, the majority of the time I try not to worry about spending extra money on good parts for the car and I do like to try things that are a bit different from the norm (as long as they've been tested and I know they will perform) so that the car has something cool and unique about it.

My r58 Cobra R's are light wheels and my region is street tire only (which will be official next season when I'm chair) so these Kuhmo XS's are the grippiest tire available right now according to Grassroots Motorsports recent hot autocross tire tests.


I never thought that I'd be having this awesome of a suspension discussion on this board :headbang:
 

OnyxCobra

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That adjustability sounds pretty good but I still think numbers are a better idea. They allow you to change to any setting you want right away without counting turns or guessing and then you can change it right back to where you like it again without counting or guessing.
 

ReplicaR

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You don't have to count or guess anything. You just turn it to full soft when the car is on the street, and set it up for track.
 

OnyxCobra

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ReplicaR said:
You don't have to count or guess anything. You just turn it to full soft when the car is on the street, and set it up for track.

Yeah but I don't want my car full soft on the street. And then when you want to change it for the track you can't just give it a spin cause it'll never be in the same place twice.
 

dutch

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I like mine too... when the car actually runs that is.
 

ReplicaR

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OnyxCobra said:
Yeah but I don't want my car full soft on the street. And then when you want to change it for the track you can't just give it a spin cause it'll never be in the same place twice.

Have you ever driven with Konis full soft? They don't feel loose at all. They have the comfort of a stock shock, but crispness of a BMW. No need what so ever to drive it on anything other and beat yourself up for no reason what so ever.
 

mikey94gt

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I have Koni Yellows as well, the double adj in front, single adj out back. awesome shocks, my cornering is absolutely flat now. (well, flat for a Mustang, anyways) I did these after I did my Griggs racing suspension.
 

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