H&R ss + Bilsteins (tokico blue woes)

1997GT4.6

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Howdy! Alright so I'm very undecisive and I need to upgrade my suspension. I currently have Ford B springs with tokico blue struts and eibach pro damper shocks (I know I shouldn't mix and match but under the circumstances of every dealer being out of stock on them at the time I had to). My first set up tokico struts went out within 2 months. I installed new ones and left the rear eibach shocks in place. Well 4ish months later the tokicos are wearing out again, a few months after that the eibachs are giving in as well. So I'm confused here. Could this early wearing out be due to mixing the brands up? It's pissing me off and I wish I would have done it the right way with Bilsteins and H&R ss, but I cheaped out.

Any ideas as to why the tokicos keeping dieing out? Some memebers on svtp concluded that the tokicos are just junk. I'm starting to think so. Thing is, on my GT I have tokico blues with H&R ss and 2 years in the car rides just fine. I thought maybe they are not the correct struts for the springs, but than again that's basically a mach 1 set up.

One fault I do claim, is that the first set went out due to me using an impact gun on top studs when installing the first set no idea why I did it, I completely forgot about the shaft spinning and destroying the seals inside. Anyways, the second time around I did them the correct way. Used AM's install guide.

So now I'm poised with the question of should I just get coil overs? Detriot seems to think I should lol. But my car will not be tracked, will hardly ever see the drag strip so I won't be getting a bank for my buck there.

So to me Bilsteins and H&R SS are perfect with MM LCA's and SFC's.

I've researched that lowered SN95's shoud go with fox struts/shocks; the ones on my car are not fox parts so maybe they weren't proper for my lowered car.


Sorry for the long post, I just can't explain something without going in depth lol.

Advice away! PS I wanted to hold off on the stuff until summer break but it rides horrible right now ugh. If not, tomorrow I was going to order a magnapacks catback and get my windows tinted finally. Maybe the control arms now and just stick it out with the suspension. It rides okay, except bottoms out on all four corners when there is a sewer hole or going into turns at 20mph +. Also back end is bouncy, the eibach pro dampers are definitely not performance oriented.
 

5litrarag

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The reason they keep failing is because the springs have too much rate for those near stock spec dampers.
Get the H&Rs w/ Bilsteins and dont look back. personally I'd go with the race springs, but I'm guessing you want that super low look that the SS spring gives and not worried so much about perfect ride. If thats the case, do it. Either way, get rid of those tokicos... they are not up to the job you are trying to get done.
 
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1997GT4.6

1997GT4.6

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hmm well aren't the b springs near stock spec as well? I agree tho the tokicos are close to stock spec. if anything I would think the h&r ss springs on my GT would not be in sync with the tokico blues it has yet it rides great. I think that's what I might do, just get the good stuff and move on to other mods. yeah I really want that super low look, also I think they ride just fine. I've heard lots of good things about the race springs but if I wasn't going to lower it more I'd just stick with the B springs. I actually might do that, just get bilsteins to go with my B springs since the B springs are better for drag racing. would that set up be compatible? yeah the tokicos aren't holding up. weired that there are other members running b springs with tokicos and have nothing bad to say about it. thanks for replying!
 

JerZeyStangz

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I'm glad you started this thread. I have the tokico blues with h/r ss combo and it rides great for now. I live in Jersey and the roads are horrible, but I think I might change them out later down the road when I run into more money. I dont know if the h/r ss are over powering the strut/shock but if they are im going blisteins, but if they loose their power and keeping the car from bouncing thats what I'm going with.
 
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1997GT4.6

1997GT4.6

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Yeah I need some info here, unfortunately there doesn't appear to be many suspension gurus available here... Yeah those roads are junk in the North. Here the roads are smooth for about 90% of the roads lol. So I might just suck it up since it rides fine, just bottoms out on sewer holes and entrances to residential areas and businesses. See my GT has that set up that you have and it works just fine, no issues. But now that I recall if I go too fast over the same places it also bottoms out but not as severe. I'm beginning to think that the B springs are causing an issue. Maybe not set up for the tokicos. Do you have tokicos for fox bodies or our snive platform? Maybe it would be okay if I the fox parts.

I'm thinking there is not enough suspension travel with the tokicos and the B springs. Although the rear eibachs are also bottoming out. If your car is not all bouncy I'd say leave the tokicos in until you know they are worn out such as thudding, bottoming out, and becoming bouncy.
 

JerZeyStangz

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Yeah I need some info here, unfortunately there doesn't appear to be many suspension gurus available here... Yeah those roads are junk in the North. Here the roads are smooth for about 90% of the roads lol. So I might just suck it up since it rides fine, just bottoms out on sewer holes and entrances to residential areas and businesses. See my GT has that set up that you have and it works just fine, no issues. But now that I recall if I go too fast over the same places it also bottoms out but not as severe. I'm beginning to think that the B springs are causing an issue. Maybe not set up for the tokicos. Do you have tokicos for fox bodies or our snive platform? Maybe it would be okay if I the fox parts.

I'm thinking there is not enough suspension travel with the tokicos and the B springs. Although the rear eibachs are also bottoming out. If your car is not all bouncy I'd say leave the tokicos in until you know they are worn out such as thudding, bottoming out, and becoming bouncy.


Well to tell you the truth. I think they might be heading towards that direction. When the road is smooth no problem, but if i hit man-hole covers, or a divet in the road. The rear bottoms out, but then again I didn't change the pinion snubber that bolts to the ceiling of the car right above the rear end. I would like it to be slightly firmer. Right now I would give this setup a B- lol. I hope the blisteins can take it to A+. I rode in my friends KB Cobra with same setup but with the IRS, his rode x100 better. Not just because it was IRS, but just how it felt cruising down the street.
 

5litrarag

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If the car is bottoming out or making harsh contact over large bumps at speed, that is the dampers not able to control the movement of the car and the spring rate is a bit too much for them. It really is that simple. My cobra used to do the same crap when it had the tokicos on it.
If you dont have cash to spend on both the springs you want AND the bilsteins, get the bilsteins. Sell the Tokicos while you can. Blown struts/shocks arent worth dick... at least right now, you can get a few bucks for them and defray the costs of the new ones.
Another thing to consider is that those SS springs are REALLY low... like right on the borderline of TOO low. So while my cobra rides really good on the smooth roads of So Cal with some harshness or bottoming in the rear area only on the VERY worst roads here, the ride you get on the crappy roads out east may still be a bit rough. But you shouldnt get the harshness you are getting now. If the dampers dont correct it as much as you'd like, look towards getting a slightly taller spring, H&R Race is whats on my GT. BTW, that snubber isnt really that big a deal... you can cut your stock one by about a .5 - .75 inch if you like. I've done it both ways on my cars.
 
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1997GT4.6

1997GT4.6

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Well to tell you the truth. I think they might be heading towards that direction. When the road is smooth no problem, but if i hit man-hole covers, or a divet in the road. The rear bottoms out, but then again I didn't change the pinion snubber that bolts to the ceiling of the car right above the rear end. I would like it to be slightly firmer. Right now I would give this setup a B- lol. I hope the blisteins can take it to A+. I rode in my friends KB Cobra with same setup but with the IRS, his rode x100 better. Not just because it was IRS, but just how it felt cruising down the street.
Ah same issues I'm having here. I didn't change nor cut the pinion snubber but I don't think it was that necessary seeing as how my B springs didn't lower the car much. With the H&R's like you have they came with a pinion snubber, mine did from AM. I have the same issues and mines a
D- lol. The bilsteins should revolutionize the ride. My friend's termi rides so smooth! Yeah it won't be as smooth without IRS but still feel great!

If the car is bottoming out or making harsh contact over large bumps at speed, that is the dampers not able to control the movement of the car and the spring rate is a bit too much for them. It really is that simple. My cobra used to do the same crap when it had the tokicos on it.
If you dont have cash to spend on both the springs you want AND the bilsteins, get the bilsteins. Sell the Tokicos while you can. Blown struts/shocks arent worth dick... at least right now, you can get a few bucks for them and defray the costs of the new ones.
Another thing to consider is that those SS springs are REALLY low... like right on the borderline of TOO low. So while my cobra rides really good on the smooth roads of So Cal with some harshness or bottoming in the rear area only on the VERY worst roads here, the ride you get on the crappy roads out east may still be a bit rough. But you shouldnt get the harshness you are getting now. If the dampers dont correct it as much as you'd like, look towards getting a slightly taller spring, H&R Race is whats on my GT. BTW, that snubber isnt really that big a deal... you can cut your stock one by about a .5 - .75 inch if you like. I've done it both ways on my cars.

Yeah that definitely makes sense, except that the B springs I have hardly even lowered the car, about 1" front and .75" out back. It's a tall spring as it is. The H&R's on my GT with tokicos don't have issues and the H&R's are clearly a smaller spring. But the rates are different. So what you say makes sense. Idk I love the H&R super sports, they were comfy enough for me and had a killer stance. I did have trouble with speed bumps like once going to this girls apartment at midnight, damn I had to go in backwards and still hit. There were speed bumps every 20ft lol and her aparment was all the way in the back hahaha.
 

JerZeyStangz

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Wow. Sounds like you guys figured it out. I'm definitely on the road to the blisteins, i'm not rich so it will be a while before it start irritating me to the point where I need them bad. If the rear shocks blow out with in a year, then im going blisteins. What started this stupid problem is this one road near my house I always drive on has this divet manhole combo. IT's decieving, but once you ride over it the rear bottoms out, and did this few times a week, and now my conclusion is that rear shocks are getting tired because like you said the spring rate is to much for them. Great!!! lol
 

5litrarag

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I only know this because I went thru it.... had some no name $hit dampers on my car when I first lowered it. Car rode good for a while and slowly degraded. After about 6 months of daily beatings (it was my daily at that time), I decided I had enough and was ready to go back to stock springs. A friend that used to autocross his car helped me out and told me I needed more spring rate, not less or more (i.e. better) dampers. I got the bilsteins and never looked back..then stepped up to the Race springs and it got even better riding.
 

MadStang

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Just to add a little bit more, as I've answered the same questions repeatedly the past month, your current setup would make any suspension tech want to pull their hair out.

You should not mix shocks and struts, that's asking for trouble alone, and even more so you're running poorly rated springs on your car. it's going to annihilate your shocks and struts no matter what.

toss the ford springs and just do it right the first time. H&R w/ bilstein.

FYI, the bilsteins will not be good for drag racing. you're worried about the springs when it's really the shocks and struts that are the larger importance for weight transfer. bilsteins are stiff and don't allow a lot of transfer...
 

JerZeyStangz

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stangsuspension.com sells blistein everything. When I have serious coin to play with im going blistein everything from shocks to struts, to quad shocks. Yeah i'm that nutty....
 

5.0kid

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^why does everyone do a quad shock? I've been told to take it out when you install lca's. sorry don't want to jack the thread, just wondering.

also are bilsteins bad if you just do one drag race a year or so, wanting to hook cause i can't anymore with my suspension now
 

5litrarag

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Bilsteins aren't "perfect" for drag racing, but nothing short of 50/50s and soft springs are anyway. And by the way, who's building a race car here?

My slow vert used to pull 1.85 60 fts with no problem, the Cobra has gone 1.79s.... so they may not be the best but they will do plenty good for a street car and for the average level drag enthusiast.
 

JerZeyStangz

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True, most of us has street driven stangs that a borderline race, but not full race when we have heavy mods. I do the quadshocks anyway just for added stabilization. Yeah, heavy duty LCA's lets you get away without them, but im that dude that want extra insurance....
 
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1997GT4.6

1997GT4.6

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Can someone explain the "poorly rated springs" part to me? I remember researching them and a lot of people were content with them and saying that they were good for drag racing.

No I am not building a race car so Bilsteins should be just fine. I want a smoother ride and a better look with the H&R's.

I know I know MadStang but I had to do it under the circumstances. Every parts distributor for stangs was out of the Tokico HPs for the rear. It was a warehouse out and I needed something asap as I daily drive it. It wasn't the greatest idea and turned out to be a waste of money, twice lol.

Also you don't need the quadshocks if you go with LCA's. I'm gonna remove my quads; my MM LCA's just came in!!!!!


*** I never did cut my stock pinion snubber when I installed my springs. I was changing my diff fluid after a gear swap and decided I'd cut a 1/4" off the snubber. Damn that made a difference that I wasn't expecting!!! It rides so much better. It is no longer bouncy in the rear like it used to be. The suspension still needs to be changed out but it feels 10x better!
 

5litrarag

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The reason its riding better is because the SS springs are so low, they basically almost sit the car on the snubber so the suspension in back has almost zero travel. And that travel is very important to getting good ride quality and not hearing and feeling every dip or bump in the road.
You can probably take another 1/2 - 3/4 inch off it if you wanted to or just get the MM snubber...its like 20 bucks I think.
As for the rating of the springs... its not so much that the springs have a poor rating... they are fine. The word "poorly" should be followed by the word "matched" in that statement. The problem is the rate of the springs (the amount of weight required to compress the spring 1 inch) is too high for the dampers in place. Thats a quick and dirty explanation of it. For a better and more technical description, call up MM when you order your shorter snubber and ask them what they think would be a good match for your springs. But keep in mind they are probably gonna try and upsell you into their proprietary dampers($$$) they sell now or a set of Koni yellows ($$$$).
But if you get someone to talk straight with you, they will most likely tell you to just dump the D-specs because they arent strong enough for the spring you are running and that Bilsteins are what you need.
 

vermilion

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I like the Steeda springs i had. i never once complained about the ride in them.
 

Slykin

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Since the answers in this thread seem to have been answered good enough, i'll bring up another one. No point in starting another thread. I'd eventually like to get H&R race springs w/ bilsteins, but i'll be getting the bilsteins first. Currently i'm running eibach sportlines(crap) with blown struts/shocks. My plan is to get bilsteins and run them with the eibach sportlines until I can afford the H&R's or coilovers. Will this ruin the bilsteins or will the bilsteins hold up fine? I'm just worried the soft sportlines will put all the load on the bilsteins and kill them. I DO NOT want to spend money on bilsteins twice. Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

-Travis
 

5litrarag

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It wont hurt the dampers...not a chance. But the ride wont be great. It wont be bouncy, just pretty firm. It wont be teeth shattering either.
I'm just saying you'll notice a BIG difference all around when you put the springs in. Good choice. The race spring along with bilsteins feels smooth, firm, very controlled... much like a german car does, if you know how that feels.
 

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