Need help on coil-over purchase.

Slykin

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I've been wanting to get coil-overs front and back for a while now, but after looking at MM's website, it sounds like that may not be an option? I can't find it once again now that i'm looking for it. But, I thought I saw somewhere where it said that if you don't have a torque arm you have to run very different spring rates(higher) and that you'd have to move up to a MM sport strut in the front. I don't want to do that. Is it possible tun run coil-overs on all stock suspension all the way around without any major issues? Eventually i'll get a torque arm and panhard bar etc, but I can't afford them right now. I do need new struts and springs though.. that's why i'm pretty close to buying full coil-overs right now.

I'm really just kind of lost right now...I want to get the best stuff the first time around, but I don't want to have to buy new struts/shocks later to compensate for springs rates etc etc. Basically, can I get Bilstein HD's with coil-overs all the way around and later upgrade to a TA/PHB without buying new shocks/struts, just getting new hypercoil springs?


 

det_riot

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I believe you should be fine. I mean, I'm running 03/04 bilsteins in the front and have zero issues. Dont take my word for it though, wait for someone else to chime in who knows suspension stuff better.
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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Now i'm wondering if I should just step up to the MM sport series dampers while i'm at it too lol! Dang it, there's too many options.
 

det_riot

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are you just streeting the car or drag strip racing it? auto-x? If you're looking into straight line speed, give Dave at Team Z a call tomorrow. They're a local company and make phenomenal products
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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Most definitely not drag racing. An engine build is THE last thing on my list. I want a steet/track terror... I'm not super concerned with comfort either, I mean, it can't be any worse than Eibach sportlines in the front/stockers in the back on blown struts/shocks LOL. I would like it to be decent though.
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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Eff lol. I'll just list all the stuff then.

Bilstein HD's, grooved.
Front and Rear coil-overs with springs. 300/225
MM Steering shaft
Solid Steering Rack Bushings
Bumpsteer Kit
Bumpsteer Gauge

I think that should do it for the summer... if I can just figure out what the TA/PHB will affect later on.
 

shoesandsocks

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u can just buy my coilvoers the kind me and a306jugront had on our cars worked fine with a stock suspension no camber plates no modifiying the rear bracket for the strut just bolt in and go at 820 shipped food for thought
 

Spd0lit

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You should not run the coilover setup without the caster camber plates. Just give them a call and they will be able to point you in the right direction. They will not force you into buying anything you don't need just yet and they will help tailor spring rates and such to what you are looking to get out of your car.
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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Ehh, thanks, but MM/Bilstein have been proven to be great products over and over again. I'm not saying Nex isn't good, but if i'm going to go all the way i'm going to make sure to do it 100%. I'd have to see a lot more testimonies in favor of Nex.
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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You should not run the coilover setup without the caster camber plates. Just give them a call and they will be able to point you in the right direction. They will not force you into buying anything you don't need just yet and they will help tailor spring rates and such to what you are looking to get out of your car.

Sorry, I forgot to mention I already have their CC plates. I'm definitely going to call them this week before I make the purchase though.
 

OnyxCobra

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I'm not convinced the bumpsteer gauge is necessary for the majority of us in case you wanted to save some money.
 

TaborRacing9

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im getting rid of coil overs... they used to be on my 96 gt... if ur interested
 

ReplicaR

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Ehh, thanks, but MM/Bilstein have been proven to be great products over and over again. I'm not saying Nex isn't good, but if i'm going to go all the way i'm going to make sure to do it 100%. I'd have to see a lot more testimonies in favor of Nex.

They are chinese coil overs. The only people who will testify that they are good are cheap ass ricers. There is no such thing as cutting corners, and no such thing as free lunch. Do yourself a favor, and build it right the first time. My half way decent Koni / MM kit set me back 1500 dollars after all the parts. I am most likely going to Bilstein setup soon, as I want to go stiffer.

Here is something on shocks and springs. You have to figure out what kind of spring you will have to run, and stick to a shock that will be able to handle it. There is such thing as over valved shock. The spring will not be powerful enough bring the wheel back down after it's compressed, and you end up with what is known as jacking effect. This will definitely reduce traction. Koni shocks will allow you to get around that somewhat because they are adjustable. Mine are setup at almost full soft rebound in the back to better slow speed traction.

Flip side of that coin is, if you pick a shock that will complement soft springs, it will not be able to keep up with the stiff spring you will need for a heavy car. I'm currently running 350 / 250 combo and that's pretty much the most Koni will be able to handle. I can already tell that rears are not keeping up sometimes. Not to mention that it's way too soft for a 3400 lbs car. My suggestion is, wait until you have money to get torque arm / panhard combo, and then get the coilovers. This way you will not have to do things twice. I'm converting to MM Race series 3 myself at some point this summer.
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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They are chinese coil overs. The only people who will testify that they are good are cheap ass ricers. There is no such thing as cutting corners, and no such thing as free lunch. Do yourself a favor, and build it right the first time. My half way decent Koni / MM kit set me back 1500 dollars after all the parts. I am most likely going to Bilstein setup soon, as I want to go stiffer.

Here is something on shocks and springs. You have to figure out what kind of spring you will have to run, and stick to a shock that will be able to handle it. There is such thing as over valved shock. The spring will not be powerful enough bring the wheel back down after it's compressed, and you end up with what is known as jacking effect. This will definitely reduce traction. Koni shocks will allow you to get around that somewhat because they are adjustable. Mine are setup at almost full soft rebound in the back to better slow speed traction.

Flip side of that coin is, if you pick a shock that will complement soft springs, it will not be able to keep up with the stiff spring you will need for a heavy car. I'm currently running 350 / 250 combo and that's pretty much the most Koni will be able to handle. I can already tell that rears are not keeping up sometimes. Not to mention that it's way too soft for a 3400 lbs car. My suggestion is, wait until you have money to get torque arm / panhard combo, and then get the coilovers. This way you will not have to do things twice. I'm converting to MM Race series 3 myself at some point this summer.

I definitely get what you're saying, that's why i'm trying to figure out what I can get now that will also work later. I've been thinking that I might not get a TA now though...i'm just not sure. I think with a PHB, coil-overs and some stiffening components it would be plenty fun until I get out of college and have money. Also, this car will always be a DD. Period. This will not be a track car, I love great handling, but remaining DD'able is priority. Another problem I have with waiting is that i'm running stock(useless) struts/shocks right now on Eibach Sportlines in the front, and stockers in the rear. I'm past fed up with having a stupid looking/handling car. If I had a decent set-up now it wouldn't be a problem.. but I don't. Do you think a MM Sport valved shock (350-400lbs) would be sufficient for now and for upgrades later as long as I avoided the torque arm? What you're saying makes sense, I just don't know that it'll work for me in my situation right now. Thanks for the info though I appreciate it, and keep it coming!
 

ReplicaR

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If I were you, I'd skip coilovers all together. Get yourself some good off shelf shocks (Bilstein HD, or Koni SA), H&R Super Race springs, and a set of H&R or Eibach sway bars. I guarantee that this will be all the suspension you will ever need. The whole reason I went overboard with all the suspension is because I go to the track quite often, and eventually this will be my dedicated track car. If you just want to daily drive the car, and have some fun with it ever now and then, there is no need to spend a shitload of money. Everything I've listed above should run you just under a grand, which is going to be a great package. You will be able to have 75% of handling of my car with that kit. It's when you are trying trying to go for that last 25%, that's when it get really expensive.
 
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Slykin

Slykin

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Hmmm....I'm going to have to think about it some more I guess. My plan's always been to make it handle with the new cars and go all out, just for occasional race/autox duty, DD'ing, and corner carving in the mountains. I know it's not super logical, but it's my goal. Not to mention I have to compete with my brother-in-law in his Scion FR-S ;D. My old vert was set up with decent springs(i'm guessing Ford racing springs) and KYB's and I wanted MUCH more out of it. Part of my problem also is that i've never ridden in a car with bilsteins/H&R's, nor one with coil-overs... or even one with tight suspension for that matter. Damn it. I need to upgrade to something this summer though.. that i'm sure of.

Edit: And doing it the way you said, I could get a PHB and still be 300 under my original plan which didn't include it. ARGH. Maybe I should just go that route until I have a good engineering job. Bilstein HD's, H&R's, steering rack bushings, steering shaft, panhard bar, and a bumpsteer kit/gauge.
 

ReplicaR

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Your best bet is a good springs/shock/sway bar combo, and some sticky tires. Take it from someone who's been there done that.
 

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