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  1. #1


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    1995 Mustang GT no start/no spark...its kicking my butt

    I have a 1995 Mustang Gt with 5.0L I have had a no start issue with no spark/occassional spark. I have replaced the coil, ignition module, PCM, distributor (remanned), igition switch, constant control relay module and still no spark. the wires are within spec . I have been going thru the checks on this website (http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_...d_module_5.php). got to Step 5 - I connect the test light to the signal wire and the + terminal on the battery, it lights up w/o the ignition being on (so that means there's a short right) . Key in run it goes out. I checked it with the coil connection unplugged and the circuit is broken, so I connected the test light to the Hot in run and Start side of the connector and test light lights up with the key in the off position. When I cut the key on, the light goes out.. When I hook the test light up to the - battery terminal, its the opposite, no light with key off and light when key in run. I checked the connection at the C104 connector and the short is between fuse and connector. Is there a short or is it supposed to be this way

    I think I have an open circuit to ground in the Hot in Start or Run Circuit and I do not think there should be a grounded circuit with the key off . This circuit is Circuit 16 on the Ford wiring diagram. It Goes from the interior fuse 18 to the Coil positive then to the radio interference capacitor to the dizzy to the ICM and to the constant control relay module. If I probe this circuit at the C104 connector on pin 27 for the 16 circuit with a test light hooked to the positive terminal of the battery, it lights up indicating a completed circuit to ground. If I take the fuse #18 out and probe the circuit, it powers the CCRM and the relays start switching. I have continuity to all of these circuits, but I also have around 35 ohms (on a 200ohm scale). I am thinking I have a short between the C104 connector and the CCRM or a short between the connector and the fuse, but I can't think this out. What do you think.

    This has been kicking my but for 8 weeks. Any help would be very appreciated.


    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  2. #2


    SN95 Supporting Member RichV's Avatar
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    Did you check your cam gear? Or timing chain?

    The computer can only control timing advance. It can turn off spark via coil, but if you have power at the coil it works like any simple non computer controlled distributor.

    I may be wrong on this, never actualy troubleshot an issue like this, but if you have 40K volts at the coil, the rotor is turning, and when it hits the cyl tower, that plug should fire. How are you checking plugs? are you grounding the threads to chassis?

    Are you POSITIVE your distributor is not 180 out, or completely off time with your cam/crank? The other thing is your cam could have jumped a tooth on the timing chain, my 79 5.0 did that years ago.

    85 SVO Garage Queen
    94 GT NASA CMC#71
    05 GT NASA TTD
    65 C-code Fastback, still mowing property to find it

  3. #3


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    Well I should go back a little and explain. This issue has been getting worse. It started with a hard to start issue - turns over and it takes a few times and then it would start - and it ran great - 6400 rpm easy - it would start okay, until it sat and then the same thing. Started changing parts and it would be fixed for a day or so and then it would get worse. Finally found my timing light and put it on it. No spark, then spark arrives after a few tries and it stars and runs fine. Then it started quiting while going down the road. Take the spout out and it would start. Now it will hit every once in a while, but then it stops. No spark. So I do not think its a timing chain or off a tooth. That would create spark just at the wrong time relative to the cylinder position. I am almost certain its a bad wire. If I had another 5.0, I would go out and put a test light or multimeter on the coil positive and see if there is an open circuit to the negative battery terminal. If a running 5.0 does not have an open circuit, then I know where my problem is and I will run a new wire. Logically, it should not be open.

    Can someone open their hood and check their 5.0.
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  4. #4


    Boss Man / Admin MustangChris's Avatar
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    I'm in no way an expert on the 5.0s.. ..... . .but I'd personally start with the coil. If that checks out, I'd replace the fuel filter (i know, sounds retarded with the spark being the issue) and finally I'd start to look at the CCRM.

    what brand coil did you replace it with? I've heard the MSDs arent up to snuff reliability wise.

    hopefully someone can crank out the volt test for ya. I'd do it, but im running a 4.6 :-/

    Quote Originally Posted by rz5.0 View Post
    Everything is better when you nuke it

  5. #5


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    Thanks Chris. I have an MSD and a Motorcraft. Both pass the resistivity check and niether help my situation. I can't get the switching signal to it. New fuel filter and plenty of FP at fuel rail. New CCRM too. You are on the same road I went down on this. Good thoughts but not it.
    Last edited by brpavers; 10-09-2012 at 11:30 PM.
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  6. #6


    Boss Man / Admin MustangChris's Avatar
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    Well fuuuuuuuck

    Quote Originally Posted by rz5.0 View Post
    Everything is better when you nuke it

  7. #7


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    What you described is a classic PIP (Hall Effect Sensor) starting to fail. Reman distributors are prone to failure on the PIP as they are generally not replaced.
    KB 2.1L, FRPP M5400-A Suspension System, FRPP Aluminum D/S, Shift Kit, High Stall TC, FRPP 3.73 Gears, Balanced Roller Cammed Engine, Edelbrock Performer Heads, Comp 270HR cam, AEM EMS, 3.5 Bar MAP, Zeitronix ZT-2 WB, FRPP 70mm TB, modified UPR CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK O/R H-Pipe, Be Cool Aluminum Rad

  8. MustangChris said thanks for this post.
  9. #8


    SN95 Supporting Member RichV's Avatar
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    The PIP would not make spark completely fail. IIRC it's more used to time injectors.

    Have you tried hot wiring the coil?

    85 SVO Garage Queen
    94 GT NASA CMC#71
    05 GT NASA TTD
    65 C-code Fastback, still mowing property to find it

  10. #9


    Senior Member CC'S95GT's Avatar
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    When my PIP went out I had the same symptoms your have as well. I even had spark just not enough spark. I also got a bad remanned Dizzy on the first try but the 2nd was successful.
    <br />95 GT.&nbsp;Bright Blue. Eibach lowered, Koni adj. shocks and struts, Steeda c/c plates, Steeda adj.upper rear control arms, sub frame connectors, 4:10's, alumnium drive shaft, BBK shorty headers, Bassani catted X-pipe, Pypes violator cat back, smoked H/L with 4500 duel beam&3 HID's, tri-ax shifter. bone stock motor.(for now) wheels-DD staggered anthracite bullets 315/40-17 rear, 255/45-17 front. 98 cobra hood

  11. #10


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    CC, Toyman, and Rich,

    I think you guys are right.

    I am on my 2nd remanned dizzy. I just have a difficult time believing that I could get 2 that have a bad pick up, but after your posts, I decided to go back and run the PIP test. Using a LED test light with the + of the LED on the battery + and the - of the LED backprobed on the PIP wire from the distributor with everything hooked up - no signal. I unhooked the connector going to the distributor and probed the pin for the PIP and it lights up brightly (key on and key off) so it is grounding, circuit complete. When I crank it the light dims, but does not oscillate or flash. I turned the crank by hand with the key off and the lights stays bright, so the circuit is always complete. I put the volt meter on it and the voltage oscillates between 10.5v and 8.7v, while cranking.. It should be between 3.0v and 6.0v, if I understand all that i have read. I think I need to head to Summit or Mustangs Unlimited and get a new Billet Distributor. What do you guys think?
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  12. #11


    Senior Member CC'S95GT's Avatar
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    Mine is a remanned. no probs for a couple years.
    <br />95 GT.&nbsp;Bright Blue. Eibach lowered, Koni adj. shocks and struts, Steeda c/c plates, Steeda adj.upper rear control arms, sub frame connectors, 4:10's, alumnium drive shaft, BBK shorty headers, Bassani catted X-pipe, Pypes violator cat back, smoked H/L with 4500 duel beam&3 HID's, tri-ax shifter. bone stock motor.(for now) wheels-DD staggered anthracite bullets 315/40-17 rear, 255/45-17 front. 98 cobra hood

  13. #12


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    well that's 1 out of 4. That's not even good in baseball. It drives me nuts. What do they do to remann a dizzy. Get one from the junkyard and clean it up. I thought they put in the PIP. That's the main point of rebuilding one other than a new bearing. I would have rebuilt my own, but I did not have a bearing press and the gear would not come off without it. I figured that the difference in $90 for a remanned vs $30 for the PIP, it was worth it to get the remanned. I guess I was wrong there. I have spent another $400 on more parts (PCM, ICM, Ignition Switch, etc.) because I thought the new dizzy couldn't be the issue. Arrghh!! HULK not happy with Cardone, if HULK got 2 bad dizzys. HULK smash things badly.
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  14. #13


    Senior Member CC'S95GT's Avatar
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    LOL. Some time I think all they do is plug them for 2 seconds in a temp controlled room . If they don't see a prob, they'll slap a remanned sticker on the call it good. Without even allowing it to warm up or do a wiggle test on the wires. FAIL!
    <br />95 GT.&nbsp;Bright Blue. Eibach lowered, Koni adj. shocks and struts, Steeda c/c plates, Steeda adj.upper rear control arms, sub frame connectors, 4:10's, alumnium drive shaft, BBK shorty headers, Bassani catted X-pipe, Pypes violator cat back, smoked H/L with 4500 duel beam&3 HID's, tri-ax shifter. bone stock motor.(for now) wheels-DD staggered anthracite bullets 315/40-17 rear, 255/45-17 front. 98 cobra hood

  15. #14


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    Well, I went to Summit and picked up a Summit Branded Billet Dizzy for the cool on sale price of $161.95, less the $20 off coupon I had - $141.95 for a new dizzy...not to bad. I just hope someone doesn't pop off that the Summit dizzys are crap and then they are right. I will HULK out if that happens.

    New dizzy on later tonight. Old dizzy returned through the window at Autozone.

    By the way CC. How can you live that close to Summit with a Mustang and have any money left in your bank account. The temptation would be too great.

    I will report back. Wish me luck.
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  16. #15


    Boss Man / Admin MustangChris's Avatar
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    good luck! and no worries about the window.... SN95 brothers watch out for eachother. if the fuzz asks about you, ill say i dont know you. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by rz5.0 View Post
    Everything is better when you nuke it

  17. #16


    SN95 Supporting Member RichV's Avatar
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    I just looked up the PIP or Hall Effect sensing from the distributor. It is used for cylinder indentification for the fuel injection firing order. It also senses RPM to the ECU, it does feedback for timing function, but actual spark is not turned on/off with it.


    I'm sure you can't go wrong with the Summit piece either way.

    85 SVO Garage Queen
    94 GT NASA CMC#71
    05 GT NASA TTD
    65 C-code Fastback, still mowing property to find it

  18. #17


    Senior Member CC'S95GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brpavers View Post
    Well, I went to Summit and picked up a Summit Branded Billet Dizzy for the cool on sale price of $161.95, less the $20 off coupon I had - $141.95 for a new dizzy...not to bad. I just hope someone doesn't pop off that the Summit dizzys are crap and then they are right. I will HULK out if that happens.

    New dizzy on later tonight. Old dizzy returned through the window at Autozone.

    By the way CC. How can you live that close to Summit with a Mustang and have any money left in your bank account. The temptation would be too great.


    I will report back. Wish me luck.
    it's very tempting. but not having any money definately slows down the mods for sure. I also get most of my replacement parts there too.
    <br />95 GT.&nbsp;Bright Blue. Eibach lowered, Koni adj. shocks and struts, Steeda c/c plates, Steeda adj.upper rear control arms, sub frame connectors, 4:10's, alumnium drive shaft, BBK shorty headers, Bassani catted X-pipe, Pypes violator cat back, smoked H/L with 4500 duel beam&3 HID's, tri-ax shifter. bone stock motor.(for now) wheels-DD staggered anthracite bullets 315/40-17 rear, 255/45-17 front. 98 cobra hood

  19. #18


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    well. I got the dizzy in and it fired up but the timing is off about 40 degrees BTC. I got it around to 30 degrees BTC and it was smoothing our but I have the wires zip tied in formation (a drag racing thang), so there's very little rooom to twist the dizzy to bring it all the way around to 14 where it was with the SCT chip. I am going to have to restabb the dizzy. Bummer. I had all the marks lined up and it dropped right in. The shaft on the billet dizzy is bigger in diameter than the stock steel one. It makes it even more difficult to get the wrench on the dizzy hold down bolt.

    I checked the PIP signal and its got good volts 6.0 to 3.0.

    I will report back tomorrow. I am wore out. If I think about the 2 Cardone dizzys that have had me chasing my tail for weeks...HULK energy back...HULK angry...nah...to tired...smash stuff tomorrow.
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

  20. #19


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    If you had asked I would have suggested you pick up a Richporter . New and usually under $100. Made in Canada IIRC. I have never read about anyone being unhappy with them.
    KB 2.1L, FRPP M5400-A Suspension System, FRPP Aluminum D/S, Shift Kit, High Stall TC, FRPP 3.73 Gears, Balanced Roller Cammed Engine, Edelbrock Performer Heads, Comp 270HR cam, AEM EMS, 3.5 Bar MAP, Zeitronix ZT-2 WB, FRPP 70mm TB, modified UPR CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK O/R H-Pipe, Be Cool Aluminum Rad

  21. #20


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    Hey guys. All is good. I've been dicking around with this no start issue for over 6 weeks. At first I thought it was a fuel issue so i started there. I would think I fixed it, but then the issue would come back and then it got worse and worse. I changed the dizzy after the first week and put in a Cardone remanned dizzy and no change. Started looking at the ICM, ECM, Coil, etc.. Nope. Checked out the dizzy and boom, the dizzy was bad. Take it back get another one. Same thing but worse. Now it won't start with the spout in, but once started it will run with the spout in. Ahah. It must be the PCM or the SCT chip. Lets waste some more time and money barking up that wrong tree. Okay not the PCM, not the chip, but I found continuity to the negative on the Hot in Start/Run circuit. Lets chase our tail around and around on that one for a few days. Finally figured out that the open circuit was the relay module and thats normal. I only found this out after tracing every connection in that circuit all the way back to the fuse block under the dash. Just damn.

    So I turn to you guys for help. There it is again - check the dizzy, because even a newly remanned dizzy can be bad. So I check it and there's no switching signal from the dizzy. What the heck. New dizzy from Summit and boom it starts, but a little rough and out of time. Last 2 lessons of this fiasco. If you have a timing light with a dial adjustment for advancing the timing, make sure you have it set to 0 if that what you think you are checking it to. Last lesson, read the instructions that came with the dizzy. It says you have to have a low resistance coil, which the OEM coil is not. Put the MSD back on and boom, we are good to go except the plugs need a good cleaning after all those no sprak starts.

    Oh the first two lessons - 1) listen to Toyman and CC95 when they tell you something. They know what the speak of. 2) Do not buy a Cardone remanned dizzy. You will be wasting your money, but more importantly, you will be wasting your time.

    Thanks guys.

    2
    1995 Mustang GT Conv., Triple Black, 5.0 with Emmett Head Alum Heads, Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, E303, BBK CAI, BBK Shorties, BBK 70mm, 24#/hr, 340 lph FP, makes 302HP/312ft# at wheels, 5 spd, 4.10 - Cumming, GA

 

 

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