2v 5.4l swap thread

Carnage281 · Oct 26, 2015

Alright, so I've finally decided it's about time to rebuild the motor and swap to a 5.4, but I need a few opinions. So I'm thinking of starting out with an iron 5.4 block that comes with a forged crank (forgot which pick-up came with one), then get some forged rods, and probe flat top pistons. Then top it all off with TF 185 44cc heads, cms stage 4 cams, 5.4 hardballer intake, and my longtube headers. I heard you can mod the 4.6 headers to fit, and I have a buddy of mine who can mod the primaries if need be. I'm hoping to get 11.1 compression ratio on this combo and hopefully make a solid 350 or 360hp to the wheels. What do you guys think?

96blak54 · Oct 27, 2015

Hey, looks like a great build! But im gonna be honest with you....I mean no punishment here nor am I steering you away from a 5.4l swap. If I were to spend the coin on all that and just get 350rwhp, I would give up! 400rwhp is known with tfs heads and tfs cams on top of a pi short block. You are spot on with the hp numbers. Down fall here is your cam selection. Not bashing the companys ability to produce a great cam(even though they fail to produce true cam specs), only tfs cams in tfs heads ive seen are putting out 400rwhp(408rwhp ive witnessed with a typhoon intake manifold) Im sure that company produces a specific tfs cam, but again...Its known brand specific TrickFlow modular cams specific tfs heads produce hp the heads are suppose to achieve. I have yet heard or seen any other cam reproduce what trickflow has in motion.

Again, the 5.4l 2v swap is a fun swap dont let me steer you away. The torque makes for a real fun driving car! NOT A WINNING CAR, but a fun driving car.

A 2v 5.4l hp is equal to any 4.6l 2v. Head flow and intake valve hole size depicts hp possibilities. Knowing the same head on top of either engine will produce the same hp #'s. This said their are plenty of pi headed 4.6l exceeding 350rwhp. "Factory stage"

Driven by a tiny bore and more stroke than a 514cuin

Carnage281 · Oct 27, 2015

96blak54 said:
Hey, looks like a great build! But im gonna be honest with you....I mean no punishment here nor am I steering you away from a 5.4l swap. If I were to spend the coin on all that and just get 350rwhp, I would give up! 400rwhp is known with tfs heads and tfs cams on top of a pi short block. You are spot on with the hp numbers. Down fall here is your cam selection. Not bashing the companys ability to produce a great cam(even though they fail to produce true cam specs), only tfs cams in tfs heads ive seen are putting out 400rwhp(408rwhp ive witnessed with a typhoon intake manifold) Im sure that company produces a specific tfs cam, but again...Its known brand specific TrickFlow modular cams specific tfs heads produce hp the heads are suppose to achieve. I have yet heard or seen any other cam reproduce what trickflow has in motion.

Again, the 5.4l 2v swap is a fun swap dont let me steer you away. The torque makes for a real fun driving car! NOT A WINNING CAR, but a fun driving car.

A 2v 5.4l hp is equal to any 4.6l 2v. Head flow and intake valve hole size depicts hp possibilities. Knowing the same head on top of either engine will produce the same hp #'s. This said their are plenty of pi headed 4.6l exceeding 350rwhp. "Factory stage"

Driven by a tiny bore and more stroke than a 514cuin

Yeah I was afraid the cam choice might have been a bit misguided. So how bout the mhs tfs cams? I mostly want the 5.4 for the torque, torque is fun lol. If I could make 400rwhp that would be great, I'm just not sure if it would make that with my auto though. Which is mostly why I was guessing it might be around the 360rwhp mark. Would go go ahead and get a supercharger, but right now I just want to have fun with my car and then later when I want boost all I have to do is install the blower and go chevy hunting. I'm also thinking a small shot of nitrous too until I decide to get serious and boost the sucker.

96blak54 · Oct 27, 2015

Yea, just swap in a stock 5.4l. All the goodies you described minus the heads will land you around 260-280. Plenty of torque! The stock internals can handle around a 50hp bump.

Driven by a tiny bore and more stroke than a 514cuin

96blak54 · Nov 20, 2015

Yea, to bad swaping in a 5.4l isnt easy like swapping a 4.6l pi engine. But really, the only hold ups are intake manifold and direct fitting exhaust. Youve seen the intake choices. So you gotta do some "fun" modifications, big deal ...right? Grab a eddy and hack away. The exhaust is simple too. Grab a summit H-pipe kit and take to your exhaust guy. He will see whats needed to adapt. Basically all bolt on from there on. Long tubes dont fit easily, but the stock logs and FRPP shorties fit great.

If a person wanted to find a navi short block(or switch out to flat top pistons) and used pi heads with the nastiest set of cams you could dream of....290-300rwhp will be had, but again 100rwtq more than a 4.6l! Torque makes driving fun!

You may ask "What about piston to valve clearance?" No worries cause any stock ford piston sits .100"+ down in the bore....or you can say -.100"tdc. The drive ability of this combo is unmatched compared to little brother 4.6l. Little brother will bog, stumble, and need gearing greater than 4.10 just to be pleasant to drive......not a 5.4l! Itll cam, rumble, shake the car and still pull a house boat with stock gearing!

96blak54 · Nov 24, 2015

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pts/5223298912.html

Link to a Knoxville TN craigslist listing of a $200 5.4l longblock from an 04 truck. Claims it spins freely! Most likely has the 04-up 8thread sparkplug hole pi heads. The block alone is worth $200!

Very good price to start a build! Even if all the components are trashed, the block generally is fine.

Score a set of stock cobra/navigator pistons, thumpin cams and get to rebuilding!! Easy 300rwhp! Without headers too.

96blak54 · Nov 24, 2015

There are a few classified listings around on mustang forums for complete sets of take out cobra pistons for around $50. Remember unlike a 4.6l, a 2v 5.4l piston to valve contact with stock pistons is virtually eliminated.

Also looking around I noticed some awesome BIG cams starting around $250shipped. Most times, these 4.6l guys think big cams = big power but find out the hard way their tiny unmoddified motor doesnt respond street worthy with big cams...... So they sell them cheap to gain back some loss. Not the case with a 5.4l. Cam all you want!

96blak54 · Nov 24, 2015

The swap is still debatable if its worth the hassle. I think it is! Obtainable stock built (key word built, a navigator shortblock scenario) 2v cammed 300rwhp on 87octane relatively cheap. Sure their's a few stumbling blocks, but their always are.

I forgot to mention tuning the car afterwards. Yes! Their will need to be an SCT "dyno" tune. Roughly $600 including a handheld tuner. Sct tuners also offer flashing the computer(no handheld)and if I recall correctly its neighborhood of $250-$300...so not to bad. No mail order tune will do it. Not enough swaps to generate dyno consistency. Retuning the computer is vital to any performance upgrade, this one included! An extra 50cu.in. throws the computer out. Although the car will start, run, and drive....just not very well. Real poopy! Gotta tune it!

96blak54 · Nov 25, 2015

Here is the original magazine artical that kick started the 5.4l swap.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/m5lp-0311-mustang-engine-swap/

Wichers123 · Nov 26, 2015

Hey what cranks are forged and what they rated to. This coming year I'm gonna forge mine and crank up the boost.

96blak54 · Nov 26, 2015

The earlist 5.4l years are forged cranked like npi engines. The switch to cast iron started around 99, but wasnt a definite switch throughout. 2001 was a sure cast crank. Honestly, just get a reconditioned crank. Most are reground and under $200.

An untouched block and untouched crank can handle well into 1000hp. Far more than a street car would need.

Just keep what you have, but forge the rods and get slightly dished pistons.

Wichers123 · Nov 26, 2015

I got a 03 engine out a expedition. I want the limit to be the turbo, 830ish

96blak54 · Nov 26, 2015

These blocks is what makes the engines bullet proof. Virtually no crank walk cause main bearing structure. I agree with forging for peace of mind.

If you decide forged pistons, get flat top 1.220 compression height which is normal 4.6l piston. If you get a specific 5.4l piston, dishing is a must for pump gas.

Wichers123 · Nov 27, 2015

How about the oe je 03 cobra Pistons? I still have the ones from the hurt motor. They in good shape.

96blak54 · Dec 4, 2015

Arnt they dished? Those will be 1.220" compression height plus the dish amount...im thinking -18cc? Leave dished 1.220 compression height pistons for the 4.6l guys.

If you were pulling 3x the weight of your car behind it, in 120Â° heat up a mountain with 87octane...use the dished! Their is still that .100 before zero deck. If I were N/A I would be leaving alot on the table, but since youre forced, that .100" clearance is very helpfull!

96blak54 · Dec 4, 2015

ModMax has a great assortment of modular replacement parts at competitive prices like these cobra style 3cc dished hyputectic pistons for $250 new! Add in a $40 oem ring set

http://www.modmaxracing.com/product_p/22025003.htm

Company these pistons with pi heads and sick cams will net an easy 300rwhp without long tube headers.

96blak54 · Dec 5, 2015

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/pts/5345740014.html

Here is a lead on a navi rebuildable. $400

Couple of 2v's

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/5290876980.html

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/5330577216.html

96blak54 · Dec 9, 2015

Another potential build

http://batonrouge.craigslist.org/pts/5298619407.html

96blak54 · Dec 10, 2015

Im finding on Craigslist all the time perfect running engines that are still within the vehicle and can be listened to before purchasing. The price ranges from $600-$1000. Most are around $750. Not a bad deal if you can score a low mileage.

$750 longblock
$350 eddy intake
$100 to mod intake
$100 to adapt upper plenum
$100 lengthen Hpipe
$10 mod fuel rails
$600+ for a tune

A solid swap for under $2000! Actually $1400 minus the tune. The tune isnt absolutely necessary for the engine to run after the swap, but will eventually need it to run well. Just like any upgrade...you gotta tune!