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garrittpwl
Active Member
Was talking with Todd Warren about it and he said if I didn't want to disassemble the bottom end that I could take 0.060 off the heads and timing cover and get it back to about 11:1
2v Teksid Block or should I go 5.4 route?
- Thread starter garrittpwl
- Start date
Personally I always prefer to gain compression by pistons when I can as opposed to shaving heads. I like having as much meat left as possible in case I have to have them shaved due to a blown head gasket or something later.
But if you have no plans of ever tearing the block down then I guess a good shave is in order!!!!! [emoji6]
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But if you have no plans of ever tearing the block down then I guess a good shave is in order!!!!! [emoji6]
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Frank.JD.Perez
Legend
In all honesty, just go coyote. With 2500 budget you can almost complete that swap. Ask @lwarrior1016 about it. We built a 2v for my car. Bitchin engine, but a coyote is the best route to go in all honesty. Or just drop a c head cobra 4v in there
Not bashing your source of info, but if it were me, id take FB people info with a grain of salt. Most of them guys live behind computers and swap information, never really dirtying their hands.
For starters, dont even think about decking a head .060" unless you are ready to modify other components. Front cover height, bolt holes and possibly chain guides, depending which you have. Now you have maxed out the timing chain tensioner due to moving corresponding chain sprockets closer and will have serious chain slop, so modified tensioners are needed or shortened chains.
A .060" deck means narrowing the intake manifold mounting, port alignment and such. Not a real big deal since most 5.4l 2v intakes are modified.
Ill agree with frank about engine swaps. If ease of install, bolting on parts and doing what everyone else has figured out, stay simple and swap in whats known.
But If being the oddball excites you and your capabilities for modifying parts extend beyond most others, maybe the 5.4l swap is your thing.
Hence I said best to gain compression with pistons. [emoji38]
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Pistons are cheaper in the long run, and plus you know what changes your facing when you buy them. When heads get decked that much, everything changes. By saving $400-600 on pistons, you probably cost yourself more $, more headaches,
the low and beholden issue that you didn't account for from the beginning. The above information post is exactly whats going to happen, and you need the skills to correctly compensate certain parts of what has been laid out for you.
the low and beholden issue that you didn't account for from the beginning. The above information post is exactly whats going to happen, and you need the skills to correctly compensate certain parts of what has been laid out for you.
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garrittpwl
Active Member
Is this the 2v forum? I must be in the wrong section.
I'm definitely oddball and not incapable in the least bit but I get what you're saying. As for my FB "people" source. This is the guy that custom grinds billet cams for 2vs outta ohio. I figured you've heard of Warren Cams as he's the goto guy for custom 2v cams but I guess not
. If he's cutting cams for these engines out of a solid piece steel, I figured he might be the guy to talk to, maybe I'm wrong. Also, you mentioned Navi or 3v pistons. I've found where they can be had for less than 300 for a complete set. If I went with flattops, does the piston still sit far enough in the hole for me to run 550 or 575 lift without worry? That was one of my motivating factors on the 5.4 was it opened up more radical cam options.
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You see, there is a reason why FB info is shady. These people cornered them self to FB. They can control the narrative, control who holds them high and delete those who challenge them and a reason why they steers clear of forums. Ask me why i know
Perhaps im out of line with this post, but i get sicken how particular names gets weaseled into a community for free and never pays their dues.
Forum information can be searched, forum info can be considered solid info and best of all, the author of the info can be challenged. I welcome it!
Perhaps im out of line with this post, but i get sicken how particular names gets weaseled into a community for free and never pays their dues.
Forum information can be searched, forum info can be considered solid info and best of all, the author of the info can be challenged. I welcome it!
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garrittpwl
Active Member
k now get off your soap box and answer my question
"Also, you mentioned Navi or 3v pistons. I've found where they can be had for less than 300 for a complete set. If I went with flattops, does the piston still sit far enough in the hole for me to run 550 or 575 lift without worry? That was one of my motivating factors on the 5.4 was it opened up more radical cam options."
idues.i added more ..lol
Nearly all modular pistons produced are for a 4.6l compression height mean the piston can be used for either 4.6l or 5.4l. Also meaning the pistons sit deep in the 5.4l. Their shouldnt be a problem with ptv clearance with most off shelf cams. Heck, if you can get a cam ground out to cause ptv interference, id love to see it! Anyhow, anything is possible....always check your build before running. Is there a crap pil of ptv clearance compared to a 4.6l...yes. Waaaay more. Like, real comfortable morek now get off your soap box and answer my question
Next question ill ask, is why so much valve lift in a pi head? What rpm will valve float begin with that amount of lift?
What's up bro. The decision your currently battling with which engine to build, I'm in some ways doing the same.k now get off your soap box and answer my question
I purchased a perfect Mark 8, which you know has the 4v Teksid in it. I wanted to do a 5.4L 2v to be different right before I purchased the Mark, but I had a good feeling about the engine, plus got to hear it, with only 105K original documented miles I couldn't go wrong, took the plunge. I'm very happy with my purchase, and I have alot of extra parts rust free to boot!
The 5.4L is tall, and wide, special headers will have to be made to fit properly, and certain intakes may need to be modified. Not gaining much but Shortys work, but ive heard that one brand name will fit one side and not the other, and then another brand name will fit where the other didn't. I do think that 4.6L JBA shortys work on 5.4L swaps, but I maybe wrong, and somone can correct me on that.
I will tell you what I'm doing. I'm disassembling the 4v, installing new pistons if necessary, although I will install new rings no matter what, putting 2012-2019 5.0 4v boss connecting rods in it, and ive already ordered the rods, they should be here any day now.
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garrittpwl
Active Member
I'm running the .600 lift comp springs so valve float will not be an issue. Per MHS, I can get away with 550 on a mild port PI head and PI intake. I want to take the 5.4 back up in the RPM range comparable to the 4.6, hence my reasoning for the high lift, and if I'm gonna build an NA motor, I don't want to build a slouch
. If it doesn't lope, I don't want it. As for my OP budget, I've upped it to 3500 . I think I may go with these pistons. http://www.modmaxracing.com/product-p/22025000.htm as they will give me a CR of 10.8:1. Rods are next on the list and the quote below discusses that.Awesome! I am GOING the 5.4 route for sure. I've got the shortblock sitting in my garage waiting on the next step. I've got a set of the BBK shorties as well for damn near free of cost so even if I have to modify the passenger side with a sledge I'm not too worried about it, especially if it saves me 500 dollars. As for your rod choice, will those bolt in no issues? I know the 5.4 uses a longer rod than the 4.6. I've heard of yote rods being used in 4.6's but never 5.4's.
The yote rods will bolt in yes, but won't work with the 5.4L schematics, as you mentioned they're longer. I would get a good set of Manley rods for the 5.4L, and glad that you found a piston to your liking, its fun stuff really. 96blak is the guy for the 5.4L build, he's been through it, and knows how to do a good setup with those. He also runs a stock 5.4L rod to 7K RPM! If anyone knows its him.I'm running the .600 lift comp springs so valve float will not be an issue. Per MHS, I can get away with 550 on a mild port PI head and PI intake. I want to take the 5.4 back up in the RPM range comparable to the 4.6, hence my reasoning for the high lift, and if I'm gonna build an NA motor, I don't want to build a slouch
Awesome! I am GOING the 5.4 route for sure. I've got the shortblock sitting in my garage waiting on the next step. I've got a set of the BBK shorties as well for damn near free of cost so even if I have to modify the passenger side with a sledge I'm not too worried about it, especially if it saves me 500 dollars. As for your rod choice, will those bolt in no issues? I know the 5.4 uses a longer rod than the 4.6. I've heard of yote rods being used in 4.6's but never 5.4's.
joe65
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just a reference also here on the forum, OLD H2S, has lots of experience building motors and has learned lots of lessons. He told me he's built at least 9 4.6's so he's pretty familiar with what to do and not do to. Just saying its alway good to talk to someone that has done it with this platform more than few times.
Silver95bird
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The limit of any modularbased 2v build will be the cylinder heads. Period. Porting is a big help, even the aftermarket heads are a boost, but ultimately thats the limiting factor.
People compare the 4.6 to the 302, and the 5.4 to the 351. Its more fair to compare a 4.6 to a 351 and a 5.4 to a 408 stroker.
The long stroke means very high piston speeds. Once you get to a point (3500ft/s i believe), filling the cylinders becomes harder because the piston is moving so fast that air literally can't chase the piston downward fully, resulting in reduced VE. In a 4.6 this happens around6500rpms, and in a 5.4 its around 5500 rpms. You can do high lift cams and extreme porting, tricks with huge overlaps notching pistons, etc. but at that point it's a feat of engineering to make up for the fundamentals of it all.
A 5.4 has one huge advantage. Torque. Tons of it. It's like Roots vs Centrifugal. Each is awesome just in different ways. The best part (to me) is a 5.4 doesn't have to be wound up high to get 'on the cam' to use some slang. Extra room for setting the cam timing is just a big pkus. Use it to your advantage.
Not trying to persuade anyone of anything, just trying to keep things grounded.
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People compare the 4.6 to the 302, and the 5.4 to the 351. Its more fair to compare a 4.6 to a 351 and a 5.4 to a 408 stroker.
The long stroke means very high piston speeds. Once you get to a point (3500ft/s i believe), filling the cylinders becomes harder because the piston is moving so fast that air literally can't chase the piston downward fully, resulting in reduced VE. In a 4.6 this happens around6500rpms, and in a 5.4 its around 5500 rpms. You can do high lift cams and extreme porting, tricks with huge overlaps notching pistons, etc. but at that point it's a feat of engineering to make up for the fundamentals of it all.
A 5.4 has one huge advantage. Torque. Tons of it. It's like Roots vs Centrifugal. Each is awesome just in different ways. The best part (to me) is a 5.4 doesn't have to be wound up high to get 'on the cam' to use some slang. Extra room for setting the cam timing is just a big pkus. Use it to your advantage.
Not trying to persuade anyone of anything, just trying to keep things grounded.
Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
I would take the 5.4 I just like building little engines and making them zoomy.
The first car engine I built was a Fiat 500cc, it was the size of a shoebox, what a POS.
The first car engine I built was a Fiat 500cc, it was the size of a shoebox, what a POS.
