2v TF heads or 4v power these days?

[NERD]

So what's making more NA power these days, TF 2v heads & cams or Built 4v's? I remember calling out MMR's Bullshit on Corral a while back claiming 500hp but what have are the best average numbers of both lately?


...and why aren't I seeing more Coyote swaps in SN?

 

[97stanger]

For whats involved going from 2v to 4v, most all n/a nuts I know go with TF heads and custom cams. I initially was doing research on a 4v swap for my car and its a lot of work involved, so I think from a complexity standpoint guys have a way easier time just spending the coin on a nice set of TF heads and picking up killer power. From what I've seen on the web and in person, its still pretty rare to even find a 400rwhp n/a car, usually they are 350-375rwhp fully worked up.

 

[JerZeyStangz]

You can probably get a 400rwhp n/a 4.6 but to achieve that type of power you probably need high compression, amazing flowing heads/cams with every possible bolt on. Stick to the 2V platform, you dont have to change a million things and you can run a crazy cam because of the lift characteristics of the head.

 

[96blak54]

One would be surprised of the 4v head compression capabilities on pump gas.

 

[D3VST8R96GT]

One would be surprised of the 4v head compression capabilities on pump gas.

This is true.

But unless you have a donor car its a pita to go 4v.....



The D3V

 

[97stanger]

yeah it really is tons of work, heads, cams, manifold, ignition, alternator, timing cover, for us that are blown a new blower bracket/piping...its worth just buying a 4v motor and swapping over

 

[97stanger]

You can also run monster cams with TF heads due to offset retainers so a lot of guys go the TF route for that reason too without having to convert to 4v

 

[JerZeyStangz]

I know for one I am going the 2V route because its more of a spectacle to see a fast 2V versus a 4v. When you see a fast 4V its not that out of the ordinary, but when your 2V is fast its like everyone looses their minds haha. I reallly like the head profile of Twist wedge design, running a sick cams that doesn't cost close to 1000 dollars is a plus too.

 

[NERD]

This is true.

But unless you have a donor car its a pita to go 4v.....
The D3V

I've done a few 4v swaps and they are not hard at all. Engine, Harness and tune. (and petty stuff)



I'm not asking because I don't know the difficulty, I'm asking if anyone has found the right combination of parts to get the most efficient numbers. MPH and Jim C. both touted amazing NA cams for the TF heads but still to this day I have never seen any 2v hit 4v numbers. (All other things being equal) Hence the starting of the thread, to see what you guys have seen.

 

[JerZeyStangz]

I've done a few 4v swaps and they are not hard at all. Engine, Harness and tune. (and petty stuff)



I'm not asking because I don't know the difficulty, I'm asking if anyone has found the right combination of parts to get the most efficient numbers. MPH and Jim C. both touted amazing NA cams for the TF heads but still to this day I have never seen any 2v hit 4v numbers. (All other things being equal) Hence the starting of the thread, to see what you guys have seen.

What are conditions N/A or Boost? And what are your goals. 4V heads do not have much over TFS twist wedge heads from research. Even if you compare intake and exhaust ports (CFM) not much of difference. Its like anything you can do I can do better type of scenario. The best head we had up until to 2009 was PI, but the game changed.

 

[D3VST8R96GT]

I've done a few 4v swaps and they are not hard at all. Engine, Harness and tune. (and petty stuff)



I'm not asking because I don't know the difficulty, I'm asking if anyone has found the right combination of parts to get the most efficient numbers. MPH and Jim C. both touted amazing NA cams for the TF heads but still to this day I have never seen any 2v hit 4v numbers. (All other things being equal) Hence the starting of the thread, to see what you guys have seen.

My bad brother. (Its Petty stuff that changed me mind Lol)

I haven't seen much expermentation with TFs since the beginning. For a N/a platform anyways.



The D3V

 

[97stanger]

Just curious, if all things being equal would you expect a 2v to be neck and neck vs a 4v?

 

[NERD]

I was checking out a few of the engine builder challenge results and it got me thinking that nothing 2v has been ground breaking for NA power yet. The TF head while I'm glad they are produced still doesn't "change the game" as it were. You're still looking at a Power adder to make 400hp+ numbers for an average build. (Average being: Pump gas compression, heads, intake & cams)

We all know we can make 700rw with with a 2v & boost. A number that's expensive to get to but an average threshold for the 2v. Anything more has usually better achieved (or more often) with a 4v.


I don't think those questions relate to my next build but it's got me thinking Mustang stuff. I've decided to finish my 5.4 4v swap for my truck then start on another SN when it's done, so I'm trying to get my mind set around how a new build will go. I don't want to chase numbers ever again and I want everything over built for being under powered. (if that makes sense.) 380rw and as much Tq as I can get down low is where I'm thinking I want for a fun track & cruiser. Kind of like Sxy except no more big numbers.

I'm just shotgunning thoughts really.

 

[97stanger]

I was checking out a few of the engine builder challenge results and it got me thinking that nothing 2v has been ground breaking for NA power yet. The TF head while I'm glad they are produced still doesn't "change the game" as it were. You're still looking at a Power adder to make 400hp+ numbers for an average build. (Average being: Pump gas compression, heads, intake & cams)

We all know we can make 700rw with with a 2v & boost. A number that's expensive to get to but an average threshold for the 2v. Anything more has usually better achieved (or more often) with a 4v.


I don't think those questions relate to my next build but it's got me thinking Mustang stuff. I've decided to finish my 5.4 4v swap for my truck then start on another SN when it's done, so I'm trying to get my mind set around how a new build will go. I don't want to chase numbers ever again and I want everything over built for being under powered. (if that makes sense.) 380rw and as much Tq as I can get down low is where I'm thinking I want for a fun track & cruiser. Kind of like Sxy except no more big numbers.

I'm just shotgunning thoughts really.

Yeah I hear ya. All of my buddies with high hp 2v's pretty much cap where you said with boost around 650-700rwhp range. All of the n/a guys I personally know are in the 300-350rwhp range and thats a pretty radical build, but I have read of some upper 300rwhp builds on the net. You were pushing some pretty impressive #'s from that green vert from what I remember, what was your setup again and the #'s?

 

[JerZeyStangz]

I was checking out a few of the engine builder challenge results and it got me thinking that nothing 2v has been ground breaking for NA power yet. The TF head while I'm glad they are produced still doesn't "change the game" as it were. You're still looking at a Power adder to make 400hp+ numbers for an average build. (Average being: Pump gas compression, heads, intake & cams)

We all know we can make 700rw with with a 2v & boost. A number that's expensive to get to but an average threshold for the 2v. Anything more has usually better achieved (or more often) with a 4v.


I don't think those questions relate to my next build but it's got me thinking Mustang stuff. I've decided to finish my 5.4 4v swap for my truck then start on another SN when it's done, so I'm trying to get my mind set around how a new build will go. I don't want to chase numbers ever again and I want everything over built for being under powered. (if that makes sense.) 380rw and as much Tq as I can get down low is where I'm thinking I want for a fun track & cruiser. Kind of like Sxy except no more big numbers.

I'm just shotgunning thoughts really.

The problem isn't the heads/cam/intake. Its the displacement. You physically do not have enough cubes to get over 400rwhp. If you want that type of power it needs to be from 331ci 2V N/A power plant imo, the cap is the displacement in the N/A world not the heads. Even with a N/A 4V your still going to be in in the 350-380rwhp range with all the supporting mods. Maybe with a lightning block its feasible.

 

[NERD]

Vortech w/15lbs. Heads, Edlebrock intake, CMS 2.5 blower cams which made 580rw with 91 and a little blue. I think the Dyno was a little too generous and I only got on the dyno once before I got fed up, broke it, tore it back down, got it back on the road only to have driveability issues. Drivability was always my biggest issue which for me.

Winter came along before I could figure out why my fuel cutting out after hard acceleration. After staring at it all winter, I just said screw it, tore it down and it was gone. I only had 2000 miles on it for two seasons. Which is pretty heartbreaking since I put 30k a year on it before I started chasing numbers.

 

[97stanger]

Vortech w/15lbs. Heads, Edlebrock intake, CMS 2.5 blower cams which made 580rw with 91 and a little blue. I think the Dyno was a little too generous and I only got on the dyno once before I got fed up, broke it, tore it back down, got it back on the road only to have driveability issues. Drivability was always my biggest issue which for me.

Winter came along before I could figure out why my fuel cutting out after hard acceleration. After staring at it all winter, I just said screw it, tore it down and it was gone. I only had 2000 miles on it for two seasons. Which is pretty heartbreaking since I put 30k a year on it before I started chasing numbers.

Damn, thats unlucky. I remember always following that car and loving the work you were doing to it. Is the drivability issue the reason you are looking to go n/a on the next one? It seems to me based on your past vortech build and with only a goal of 380ish rwhp and a fun street car you know the cheapest and most direct way to go...slap a vortech on and call it a day lol

 

[DropTopPony]

The problem isn't the heads/cam/intake. Its the displacement. You physically do not have enough cubes to get over 400rwhp. If you want that type of power it needs to be from 331ci 2V N/A power plant imo, the cap is the displacement in the N/A world not the heads. Even with a N/A 4V your still going to be in in the 350-380rwhp range with all the supporting mods. Maybe with a lightning block its feasible.

Yes, and when you factor in the extra cost for Boss blocks, big bores etc it gets you back to the question, is it really worth the money to get a NA 2V up to 400rwhp when FI is so easy and a much higher ceiling.

Unless your racing in a class that requires it, NA 2V builds are not the way to go.

With mine I only cracked 275rwhp and thats with heads/cams etc through a 4r70w, that took the big bore plan I was thinking of right out of the equation.

 

[97stanger]

Yes, and when you factor in the extra cost for Boss blocks, big bores etc it gets you back to the question, is it really worth the money to get a NA 2V up to 400rwhp when FI is so easy and a much higher ceiling.

Unless your racing in a class that requires it, NA 2V builds are not the way to go.

With mine I only cracked 275rwhp and thats with heads/cams etc through a 4r70w, that took the big bore plan I was thinking of right out of the equation.

I couldn't agree more. I mean, unless in a racing class or unless your pride is that high, i dont get the point in dropping 10k for 300rwhp when you can slap a blower on and have a more reliable and streetable car for 3k. But hey, to each their own.

 

[JerZeyStangz]

Yes, and when you factor in the extra cost for Boss blocks, big bores etc it gets you back to the question, is it really worth the money to get a NA 2V up to 400rwhp when FI is so easy and a much higher ceiling.

Unless your racing in a class that requires it, NA 2V builds are not the way to go.

With mine I only cracked 275rwhp and thats with heads/cams etc through a 4r70w, that took the big bore plan I was thinking of right out of the equation.

I agree 100%. I plan on being N/A for a while with H/C/I and when I have money to forge the motor, I am boosting it. The key is having the platform there so you do not have to do everything over.