351C or W

Discussion in '94-95 5.0 - Specific' started by 94OJGT, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. 94OJGT

    94OJGT New Member

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    ne1 here have experience with 351's?
    im planning on finding an old 351C if possible and stroking it to 408
    and if ne1 has advice on pistons,rods,crank,etc
    PLEASE
    dont hesitate to throw that out there

    i plan on gettin F/I after a while also
    so if ne1 has ne thoughts yea...
     
  2. Both motors can be built into strong performers, if you have the money and resources. The differences are the block, heads, intake, headers...everything they only share displacement. As far as which one is better, a 351W would be cheaper and a lot simpler to fit into a fox or SN95. The 351W can be done with pre made parts, the 351C would require alot of custom parts. You could make a 351W with 350-400 hp easy. A 351C on the other hand, depending if you went with 2 or 4 v heads would require reving the engine to 7000+ rpms to get any power. Building a 351C with 4v heads would be a waste in a daily driver, cause you'd have to rev it to the moon to make power, 351 ci is simply not enough to make use of the heads. If you really want to use a 351C, put the 2v Aussi heads on it with the wedge chambers. Any 351C stroker would be good, but would require alot of expensive custom parts. Another route would be to build a 347 stroker. it would be cheaper than any 351 swap.

    The blocks are a bit different too... Windsor is a small block. The Cleveland is an intermediate block. Ain't quite a small block, but not quite (but sometimes listed as) a big block. When Ford designed the Cleveland (esp the 4bbl head version) they realized that you can make lotsa power if the heads breathe well. The 4bbl heads on a Cleveland were built to breathe.

    The gas crunch and introduction of emissions laws killed development of the Cleveland. I think they were only made from like '71-'74. Then came the neutered 351M and 400M.
     
  3. Anrev

    Anrev Active Member

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    Edlebrock makes an aluminum Cleveland head now too. Its similar to the Aussi 3V head. But its is built to be installed on the Windsor blocks too. Its just not emissions legal.

    If I were to build a new motor for a car and emissions wasnt a factor, I would build a 347 and put the Edlebrock heads on. Maybe even one of the new Boss 302 blocks. Then for all intents and purposes you'd have a new REAL Boss 302.
     
  4. scarface

    scarface Guest

    can you fit a "C" into these stangs ???
     
  5. yeah... Truuble has a 427 in his...

    doesn't he?

    Well he does have a big block... Clevelands aren't exactly bigblocks... like i said before
     
  6. Paul

    Paul Legend

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    TRUUBLE's car is just a max-bore/stroke 351W race block. It's only slightly larger than a 302 and is still a small block.

    For a streetcar, the choice between 351C and 351W is easy. The 351W is much more street-friendly, and there are far more available choices for buildups because the aftermarket is so large. I'd go with the "W". :)

    Paul.
     
  7. 94OJGT

    94OJGT New Member

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    yea i was wonderin about that

    i was thinking about strokin a 351 to 427 but figured it wouldnt last too long
    thought 408 might be a bit more durable

    im hoping to have around 8k cash come next december
    so
    i still need a tremec t-5 n i gotta rebuild my rear end
    sooo
    ne1 think i can accomplish this with 8?
     
  8. Small block windsor parts a re relatively cheap... you will want a built T5, or consider finding a TKO600... and you will want a new carrier and axles...

    then ya'll want some suspension mods cause ya'll have some extra weight up front, not a heck of alot, but some, and you will want traction...

    Yeah, I think you could do this with 8K or less
     
  9. Paul

    Paul Legend

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    A 427 isn't really a good setup for a stock block - but you can do it with a raceblock. I have a 422 (4.040" x 4.100") which IMHO is the outside most you'd want to do in a stock block.

    I don't think you can do a 351W stroker swap and all the necessary supporting stuff (clutch, tranny, rearend) for $8K. I have $1000 in my rearend parts, a $1600 transmission, $900 clutch, and the cost of my motor was outrageous. If you have a big cube smallblock, you need to have REALLY nice cylinder heads if you want to make power. Most heads that fit the bill can run you around $2000 alone. I'm running Brodix M2 Track 1 CNC and they work fine. Other good alternatives would be AFR205s or 225s, or big Canfields or TF High-Ports and such. Then you need big exhaust to go with it.

    By the time it's all said and done, you could easily dump $10K+ with no problem.

    Paul.
     
  10. Well it really depends on how much power he wants to make... He could build a 351W SN95 with 8K... but it won't be as fast as that... lol...

    If he wants a project car, he could take his time and find a decent set of heads... get a big carb, and drop a cam in...

    Also depends on if he plans on doing the swap himself...

    If he aint building a race car, just a fun mustang, nothing over the top, and does the work himself... I think 8K is doable...

    But yer most certainly right... the heads are the BIGGEST point of restriction... nice heads are really a must have...
     
  11. Paul

    Paul Legend

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    If he stuck to a budget and bought cheap parts that only made moderate power, it would be a much better alternative to build a 302 stroker instead of a 351 swap.

    Oh, and getting a 351W to fit under a stock hood is NOT easy. You can most likely add in the price of a new hood and paint too.

    Paul.
     
  12. Well good point on the 302...
     
  13. Paul

    Paul Legend

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    Having done it, IMHO - 351 Windsors should only be swapped into Mustangs if you're looking for big-cube, big-power monster motors with reasonably big budgets. Otherwise, it just isn't worth it. 302 based strokers can make VERY good power, and even small cube 302/306/316 motors can make insane power with a decent turbo kit. Adding a Windsor (especially to a SN95) only adds a bunch of headache that can be avoided with a 302 based motor.

    I did the Windsor to be different, and because I'm looking to make outrageous torque numbers for a fun streetcar. If I can get my stupid clutch issues sorted out, I'm looking to make around 650-700 ft. lbs. of torque at the wheels with my T-Trim blown 422. I figure it should be good for mid 12s at 125 mph. :lol:

    Paul.
     
  14. 94OJGT

    94OJGT New Member

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    so maybe a dss small block n a turbo kit would be better :dunno:
    heh
    i wanted a 351 to be different, but then again around here....every1's blocks are stock and just have bolts on a nitrous
    only 1 person has a procharger
    and its not exactly fun to drive on the street lol
     
  15. Paul

    Paul Legend

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    You really need to evaluate your goals and check them against your budget. There's no way you can get a built engine, plus a turbo kit, plus the supporting hardware behind it for $8K.

    Where is your car at right now, what mods does it have, what work can you do yourself, and what are your goals with the car?
     
  16. 94OJGT

    94OJGT New Member

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    right now my car is completely stock...
    minus cobra r rims, 2" lower kit, and new k-frame

    im wanting over the 500 mark
    and yea..
    im gonna need around 12k
    for a turbo set up
    with supporting hardware

    i want the car to be definitly streetable
    but run some good numbers at the track every once in a while
    (actually i just want to beat my buddies 74 satellite)
    hes pushing 550 witha 250 shot
    but those things r tanks
     
  17. Paul

    Paul Legend

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    Boss block, forged crank, rods, pistons. 4.155" bore x 3.250" stroke = 352 ci
    AFR185s
    Trickflow Track Heat
    Accufab 75mm
    Vortech S-Trim or Procharger P1SC
    Spec Stage 3+
    Tremec TKO600
    FMS Alum DS
    F150 31 spline T-lok
    31 spline axles
    Fuel System

    Have at it.

    Where are you getting all the cash? It took me years to build up my car...