3v oil pump draining the pan?

96blak54

Legend
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
8,605
Reaction score
1,863
Location
In the shop
Scrolling around on the disinformation pages....FB....i stumbled upon info that i feel was poorly presented. Here is what was presented.

"PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

Someone is spreading bad information regarding 3v pumps sucking the oil pan dry. Well, they do not. All 2005-2010 3v engines and the 2007-2014 GT500 use this pump and do not experience their oil pans being sucked dry."

Lets analize this.

The question here.....is it possible for the oil pan to be ran dry by a 3v oil pump?...or any type of oil pump? Absolutely!

Yes its possible! Maybe not "ran dry" but starving, yes.

Ford made different styles of oil pick up tubes and oil pans for the same engine in many different platforms. The wrong combination of parts can provide a considerable gap between the pick up tubes opening and the pans bottom and vise versa, not enough gap. Some models came with a pickup screen cover that aided with oil suction.

Ideally you want the pick up tube opening to scavenge the pans bottom, like in any engine. Any bigger gap opens up the opportunity for cavitation from oil splash and slosh.

Lets think about this. The oil needed to feed the engine running,.... high rpm windage from the crankshaft, under the valve covers from the cams, timing components and drain back....You can start to see a few quarts of that oil is in suspension.

Look at it like this. Lets go racing. Roll through the burn out box, do your burn out. Pull up to the line and do the 7000rpm launch. Inertia causes the oil to slosh to the back of the pan, the high rev windage has alot oil in suspension, and now cavitation at the pickup opening is created. This also goes along with circuit track racing,...oil sloshing side to side at high revs.

And if the pickup tube and oil pan are not matched, the problem is compounded.

So yes, a 3v pump can "suck the oil pan dry"....if thats how we want to say it. Any pump can "suck the oil pan dry".

Under normal driving?...no, not really. Drag racing, track racing....absolutely.


Why would the author of such comment not offer an analytical approach being a guru of said engine platform. Im sure someone challenged him and he couldn't delete them, so instead he snickers a comment and like minded people followed.
 

garrittpwl

Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
106
Location
Indiana
Scrolling around on the disinformation pages....FB....i stumbled upon info that i feel was poorly presented. Here is what was presented.

.................................................

Why would the author of such comment not offer an analytical approach being a guru of said engine platform. Im sure someone challenged him and he couldn't delete them, so instead he snickers a comment and like minded people followed.
Same author recently posted a questionable answer regarding cams.

OP asked "What’s the biggest cams you can run in a 2v without fly cutting pistons? 270? 274? 278? Anyone know?"

The author you mention above responded
"You can run any of those cams without reliefs. However, what matters is what set matches your modifications and will meet your power and performance goals."

Uhhh what
 

PinkieT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
2,121
Reaction score
709
Location
Cleveland
Same author recently posted a questionable answer regarding cams.

OP asked "What’s the biggest cams you can run in a 2v without fly cutting pistons? 270? 274? 278? Anyone know?"

The author you mention above responded
"You can run any of those cams without reliefs. However, what matters is what set matches your modifications and will meet your power and performance goals."

Uhhh what
That guy is dangerous!
 
OP
OP
96blak54

96blak54

Legend
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
8,605
Reaction score
1,863
Location
In the shop
We both grew up on the corral. People would contest the info he would post. He would argue with people. He would do his best to redeem himself and most often fail. This is one reason he bailed from forums. The other reason was he couldnt delete the individual who was testing him and this is why he stays on FB. The info there comes and goes, never to be able to reseach the knowledge base where as a forum the info can be searched.

Im not as hands on as i used to be, but ive learned alot these last 22years and i stand to learn more everyday even if that means someone tests my knowledge and makes me question myself. I love passing on what i know yo fellow enthusiasts. But this particular guy. Its his way or no way.....you get deleted.
 

garrittpwl

Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
106
Location
Indiana
We both grew up on the corral. People would contest the info he would post. He would argue with people. He would do his best to redeem himself and most often fail. This is one reason he bailed from forums. The other reason was he couldnt delete the individual who was testing him and this is why he stays on FB. The info there comes and goes, never to be able to reseach the knowledge base where as a forum the info can be searched.

Im not as hands on as i used to be, but ive learned alot these last 22years and i stand to learn more everyday even if that means someone tests my knowledge and makes me question myself. I love passing on what i know yo fellow enthusiasts. But this particular guy. Its his way or no way.....you get deleted.
The more I'm on the facebook groups and the more of a following my car has gotten over the past 2 years with the build the more I see the misinformation that gets spread. I try to link my sources whenever I have a response on technical things. Glad you cleared the light for me on the oil pan situation as I've been flip flopping on what my thoughts were. (partially due to the OP that you're quoting). I'll stay here for my knowledge base.
 
OP
OP
96blak54

96blak54

Legend
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
8,605
Reaction score
1,863
Location
In the shop
In all honesty, the guy is very helpful. Dont get me wrong about him, he is part of the modular community and ive learned from him as well. But as a human he has some controlling traits and it bleeds out when he is tested.....most that test him get deleted.

Im happy you are sticky around contributing. You seem to be a sharp guy. Most likely good looking too. If i was to give you a 3rd compliment....probably smooth with the ladies!!

Seriously tho, this is a great community that this community has built and people like you is what it needs.
 
OP
OP
96blak54

96blak54

Legend
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
8,605
Reaction score
1,863
Location
In the shop
I also find FB filled with folks that want to go about tooting their own horn when it comes to engine horsepower. Their will be one guy with honest information and Mr.TOOT TOOT counter responds with patting his own back degrading the honest info because he has in some way produced many out of this world engine builds, but fails to inform the community a break down of how to achieve said power levels.

My question is, why be part of the community if all you want to do is brag and not show proof? Or why does anyone accept him there?
 

garrittpwl

Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
106
Location
Indiana
I also find FB filled with folks that want to go about tooting their own horn when it comes to engine horsepower. Their will be one guy with honest information and Mr.TOOT TOOT counter responds with patting his own back degrading the honest info because he has in some way produced many out of this world engine builds, but fails to inform the community a break down of how to achieve said power levels.

My question is, why be part of the community if all you want to do is brag and not show proof? Or why does anyone accept him there?
Yeah those claims were wild. I see you're lurking on those replies :D.
I felt like I was giving valid numbers and expectations.
 

garrittpwl

Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
161
Reaction score
106
Location
Indiana
Glad I do not have FB
yeah, this is the result, note this is a reply to me as I am Garritt lol.

as.JPG

edit, let me clarify. Taking a stock long block and magically gaining ~120-130 wheel seems a bit looney tunes. even if you went "fbo" cams, intake, tune, long tubes.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
96blak54

96blak54

Legend
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
8,605
Reaction score
1,863
Location
In the shop
Sadly, i have to take up for the guy. Those power claims are not unreal, very achievable given the right combo of parts. Dont get me wrong here, i retain my grief with the guy.

Proven engine mathematics, valve curtain area along with engine cubes almost guarantee possible output. Its a whole lot like a garden hose possible output. One end inlet opening size, hose length, and output opening size with Its not like the combustion engine was invented a few years ago. Not like they all havent figuring it out. A base line mathematics scale has been created thatll shine the light at possibilities.

All engine builders use this process in predicting output power. Most have their own mathematic process thats favored well for them, but all in the same.

And its not only engine horsepower. Its also what the engine has to power. Reduced driven rotational weight reduces robbed horsepower. 2 identical cars, but one with extreme rotational weight loss will dyno very different hp results. The horsepower is no longer robbed by rotational weight and can be used to the ground now.

Back on topic
People want to brag. Talk themselves up. Counter response with redundant info that offers nothing positive to the community that surrounds them.

Here's an idea! how about explain what needs to be done in order to extract the hp from bragged about engine build in stead of just boasting about yourself. Welcome to FB.

To be honest im glad FB exsists and people like that resides there.
 
Last edited:

RAU03MACH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
4,843
Reaction score
4,346
Location
NEW MEXICO
I have always found that there are certain people on FB that are full of themselves
Or conceded
Majority of people I know well
 

apsmith49921

Active Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
815
Reaction score
671
Kind of interesting I stumbled on this. I think I know the individual being spoken about. I do have some questions about those custom ground cams. I've personally seen only 1 example of a stock bottom end 4v making 400hp. It was done with Comp 106400s, e85 and fbo. All the comp 106400 dynos I see are roughly 370 to 380 hp. I've seen same numbers of less from said custom cams and an intake. The 400hp was allegedly stock intake manifold which I find extremely impressive. I have yet to see dyno sheets to compare things like mod range and all that because obviously peak numbers don't tell the whole story.

As you mention there's a ton of knowledge there and I wouldn't make the power I do without it. Sometimes things just don't add up. Also thanks for your input you've got some useful knowledge in that noggin on yours too lol
 

joe65

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,414
Reaction score
1,333
so i'm an old guy too...stangnet and the corral were my goto's from 2000...its like everything in life, there's good and bad and dumbasses and really good people in all the places. I personally find some great deals on FB, actually pretty fucking great deals if i watch for things. Also have met some dumb fucks, but have also met some really knowledgeable people. I would vote for Todd Warren as one the most knowledgeable people around with the 4.6. he's designed 1000's of cams for people and he's a great guy to talk to. he's just an example of why i wouldn't say to totally write off FB. Most forums are dead now days. Sucks ass if you ask me. much better format and easier to weed out the asses. This one is one of the busier around so i like it and lots of good people. Ok rambling over. Get back to work on that car!!
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
76,267
Messages
1,473,282
Members
14,151
Latest member
Mustangman45

Members online

No members online now.
Top