3v vs 2v NSR can swap?

[98DesertGT]

I'm posting in the safe zone because I've done 3v cams, never a 2v.

My main question lies in degreeing.
For a mild NSR on a 3v, you really only had to worry about the timing chain and followers.
I did my own swap without even worrying about TDC.
lined up the keyways, it ran flawlessly...minus a tuning hiccup.
After retuning ran like a scalded ape.


Not trying to take shortcuts.
just hoping to be educated on the 2v.
I peeked under the valve covers and it looks like another dot to dot setup.

So do educate me!

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

[MENTION=9106]Thomas_W[/MENTION] [MENTION=14727]96blak54[/MENTION]

 

[lwarrior1016]

Timing a 2v is super simple. Crank dot at 6 o'clock with the cam dots point more upward. Put one chain link on the crank the wrap the cahin up around the cam gear while lining up the dot on the car gear with the other end link on the chain. Make sure all the slack is on the tensioner arm side and the guide side is tight.

 

[lwarrior1016]

If you want to "degree" them, we will get more into that as it requires more knowledge of the timing setup and more tools.

 

[98DesertGT]

Timing a 2v is super simple. Crank dot at 6 o'clock with the cam dots point more upward. Put one chain link on the crank the wrap the cahin up around the cam gear while lining up the dot on the car gear with the other end link on the chain. Make sure all the slack is on the tensioner arm side and the guide side is tight.

So slightly more in-depth than a 3v.
I did rotate my crank to get my L and R ticks for reference.
This looks identical to what I did.

 

[98DesertGT]

So degreeing comes in for what??
100% accuracy?
I can see pulling the timing cover to do a complete "dot to dot"
But if the painted two links are positioned on the "tick" it looks drop and go....

I hope my question is making sense.
Because at this rate I'm tempted to slap a set of cams in just for some blub blub.

My main goal isn't peak...It's the curve.
MHS suggested based on that to go with their stage 2 PI cams.

I'm currently looking up dyno graphs.

 

[98DesertGT]

I never pulled my timing cover.
nor used a spring compressor.

merely used a hose for tension, and backed the caps little by little front to rear.
Lubed the cam, rotated gently til the keyway matched on the sprocket, put the cam caps back reverse order.
slid the sprocket on, put the bolt.
torqued, and rotated a full 360 to feel for any interference, buttoned it up and did the same for the P.S. side.

 

[98DesertGT]

If you want to "degree" them, we will get more into that as it requires more knowledge of the timing setup and more tools.

what about pre degreed?
Or am I due a lesson in degreeing?

 

[lwarrior1016]

So degreeing comes in for what??
100% accuracy?
I can see pulling the timing cover to do a complete "dot to dot"
But if the painted two links are positioned on the "tick" it looks drop and go....

I hope my question is making sense.
Because at this rate I'm tempted to slap a set of cams in just for some blub blub.

My main goal isn't peak...It's the curve.
MHS suggested based on that to go with their stage 2 PI cams.

I'm currently looking up dyno graphs.

Degreeing comes in when you are wanting to make sure the cams are installed at the intended centerline and that the banks are even in terms of cylinder pressure and valve timing.

I never pulled my timing cover.
nor used a spring compressor.

merely used a hose for tension, and backed the caps little by little front to rear.
Lubed the cam, rotated gently til the keyway matched on the sprocket, put the cam caps back reverse order.
slid the sprocket on, put the bolt.
torqued, and rotated a full 360 to feel for any interference, buttoned it up and did the same for the P.S. side.

You can do this with the 2v if you are careful enough and the chain doesnt slip on the cam or crank gear. I dont like to chance it, especially being so close to having the timing cover off. I find it easier to pull the timing cover and just re-time the engine.

what about pre degreed?
Or am I due a lesson in degreeing?

Pre-degreed is an awesome service if you buy the cams new. At that point though, the cams will come with a set of cam gears and crank gears so you will be pulling the cover off anyway.

 

[98DesertGT]

Okay. so in essence an extra hour or so for CL.
Basically peace of mind as opposed to drop and go.
Good excuse to buy new chain's and tensioners.

Much obliged!
A glorified 3v swap.

I guess for the sake I'll order the degree service and slap it all together.

 

[98DesertGT]

I wonder if my Freedom racing chain tool will fit a 2v.
May use the truck as a guinea pig.

 

[lwarrior1016]

I wonder if my Freedom racing chain tool will fit a 2v.
May use the truck as a guinea pig.

Ive never seen that timing chain tool before. I honestly dont see why it wouldnt work. I personally dont trust it but for sake of getting things done faster, I think it would work. That is, as long as you have the iron timing chain tensioners that have the ratchet lock system on them. The plastic ones would just collapse.

Also, if you do decide to order new tensioners and chains, make sure you get the iron tensioners and the chain guides that have the steel back. The plastic stuff is all prone to failure.

 

[98DesertGT]

In that case I'll look for a 2v specific tool.
It's a plastic wedge, on a glorified coat hanger.
MHS does degreeing whether you use their cams or not.
But currently looking for the torqueiest*not a word*
cam.

I've look at quite a few that toss 20+rwhp and around 1 or no torque. granted that's peak, and HP is derivative of torque. But when I'm seeing a few that actually lose peak...


well, the search goes on.

 

[lwarrior1016]

In that case I'll look for a 2v specific tool.
It's a plastic wedge, on a glorified coat hanger.
MHS does degreeing whether you use their cams or not.
But currently looking for the torqueiest*not a word*
cam.

I've look at quite a few that toss 20+rwhp and around 1 or no torque. granted that's peak, and HP is derivative of torque. But when I'm seeing a few that actually lose peak...


well, the search goes on.

MHS will definitely point you in the right direction.

The timing setup should be very similar between 2v and 3v so I really dont see a reason your tool would not work. The only thing I could see being a problem is if you change cam gears then you have to pull the gear completely off the timing chain and hop that you get it back on and timed like it needs to be.

 

[96blak54]

The npi cams will be your torqueiest cam. Dont expect a gain in grunt power from a 4.6l. Youre about as maxed torque as it sits. Im speaking of down low, driving rpm torque and not torque from rpm above 2500rpm.

Simply swapping to long tube headers will increase the power throughout the entire rpm.

If your hinting around about having cams specifically ground, anyone can order specific ground cams from any cam grinder. Since your focus is towards more torque and purchasing cams, call up compcams and specify a cam with a tighter lobe separation angle.

Another solution, swap out the exhaust lashers to Ford Gt lasher/rocker combo. These will allow the exhaust valve to open a tad later aiding in low compression power.

 

[98DesertGT]

great....I've got PI cams....

I think I'll just do torque increase 101....gear the hell out of it.
4.10s I could do 165 with 283rwhp.
I figure I can still touch 150 in a 2v.


as for actually removing the sprockets, I've done a lot of phaser swaps on 5.4s..
same thing on a 2v, just no oil fed cam modulation.
Good ole 3/4 hose did wonders before I bought the wedge.

I may not cam it as frankly if I were hunting numbers I'd be shooting for 250/260 rwhp and 300+ TQ
so..I may just gear it.

But I may cam the truck...just to say I've done a 2v cam swap haha

 

[98DesertGT]

I may give em a call.
MHS pointed at their stage 2.
nothing against them...But online dyno sheets are showing HP over TQ gains.


Off topic...But I'm tempted day by day to swap engines with my F150...that has my torque.
just have to live with a 5500 redline unless I dug into rods.

 

[96blak54]

You could always swap out to a 5.4l. Thatll put you 100lbft more torque off idle over the 4.6l.

Or a stroker kit for the 4.6l. Increasing the stroke is what you want for torque. Itll reduce rpm roughly by 1000rpm.

So are you running a standing mile race?

 

[98DesertGT]

plan is...
weekend/cruise
open track maybe a few 1/4

I plan the only creature comfort to be a radio and rear defrost.

I'm working on subtle weight reduction so it won't look stripped out like a honda.
Shooting for a curb weight of 3100 or less.
So with me in the car, just under 3300.

less weight, easier braking, handling, nimble, and less power to do comparable things in 99-04s.

 

[98DesertGT]

You could always swap out to a 5.4l. Thatll put you 100lbft more torque off idle over the 4.6l.

Or a stroker kit for the 4.6l. Increasing the stroke is what you want for torque. Itll reduce rpm roughly by 1000rpm.

So are you running a standing mile race?

I have a perfectly healthy 01 in the truck.
less miles than the mustang.
Sadly, I live near El Paso, Bob and HPS are both long gone.
So I'd be stuck with adapter plates.

Now if I could manage to give it a decent pull to at least 5500. I'd do the swap without thought.
My truck has more low end than the car haha
oddly enough the 4.6 starts hauling where the 5.4 dies.

But for coming out of corners, that torque would be handy. I'd just have to work harder on suspension.

I've thought about the plates and injector pattern.
I don't recall the brand, but they have a gorgeous spray pattern that "in theory" would alleviate some to the spray issue.

I figure keep the 3.27, do a mild cam to try and stretch the powerband. the 5.4 has more ptv clearance IIRC, 75mm tb/plenum, UDP, and JBA shorties. That in lower elevation should net around 230rwhp and hold at least 300lbs til 4500+

Again spitballing.
My only reservation, as stated is I want at least 5500. for the torque the 600 rpm loss is acceptable.
I don't expect much power up there, only to wind it out further than 4500.
if my pain med addled talk makes sense.
I haven't had a 5.4 since 09? but it hauled the mail in Germany.
But no intakes...so until one pops for sale, plates.