4.6 stroker?

[WODY281]

;DHAHA Easy there "boy racer" didn't mean to get your panties in a wad. If this site "irritates the hell out of you" then why are you on here? Especially posting big bore statments on a stroker thread? 452 is A-LOT & I still find it hard to believe. Considering i've been at a dyno shop for years and have NEVER seen a na 4.6 push that!!! Its just a looooonnnnggg way to come when you only have 270 rwhp to climb up to 450rwhp ON THE MOTOR. But even if it did make that, then its GOT to be COMPLETELY BUILT, not just bore, heads, cams and intake. Its not just a simple "decent mods" and BAM 400 to the tires. If that was so then hell nobody would supercharge, we'd all just big bore ours and do some bolt ons. This guy has got to have some MAJOR head work, huge ass cams, one hell of a ported intake, beefed up bottom end, and compression thru the roof. And he could have had more with a power adder with the money he spent tryin to stay NA. I'm sure he's got a ton in his heads alone! But if the guy did make that then congrats anytime a ford makes good hp then i'm all for it. But forgive me if I have hurt your precious little feelings. Didn't mean to get you so worked up. :ass3: I'm just sayin I haven't seen it, the most i've ever seen on a NA cobra is like 350, but once again if he did it then i'll drink to it :drunk:

 

[Thomas_W]

;DHAHA Easy there "boy racer" didn't mean to get your panties in a wad. If this site "irritates the hell out of you" then why are you on here? Especially posting big bore statments on a stroker thread? 452 is A-LOT & I still find it hard to believe. Considering i've been at a dyno shop for years and have NEVER seen a na 4.6 push that!!! Its just a looooonnnnggg way to come when you only have 270 rwhp to climb up to 450rwhp ON THE MOTOR. But even if it did make that, then its GOT to be COMPLETELY BUILT, not just bore, heads, cams and intake. Its not just a simple "decent mods" and BAM 400 to the tires. If that was so then hell nobody would supercharge, we'd all just big bore ours and do some bolt ons. This guy has got to have some MAJOR head work, huge ass cams, one hell of a ported intake, beefed up bottom end, and compression thru the roof. And he could have had more with a power adder with the money he spent tryin to stay NA. I'm sure he's got a ton in his heads alone! But if the guy did make that then congrats anytime a ford makes good hp then i'm all for it. But forgive me if I have hurt your precious little feelings. Didn't mean to get you so worked up. :ass3: I'm just sayin I haven't seen it, the most i've ever seen on a NA cobra is like 350, but once again if he did it then i'll drink to it :drunk:

who' the f'k is stupid enough to fork out $2500+ for a big bore kit and NOT build the bottom end? I mean WTF? And i dont think i saw anyone say 400 to the tires was easy.. or cheap. Doesn't matter how you get to the big end of the track as long as you get there first. 400+rwhp on a modular is impressive. But i do agree that he's probly got a SHIT ton of $$$ in heads and intake. And most likely a standalone system too..

 

[blackfang]

;DHAHA Easy there "boy racer" didn't mean to get your panties in a wad. If this site "irritates the hell out of you" then why are you on here? Especially posting big bore statments on a stroker thread? 452 is A-LOT & I still find it hard to believe. Considering i've been at a dyno shop for years and have NEVER seen a na 4.6 push that!!! Its just a looooonnnnggg way to come when you only have 270 rwhp to climb up to 450rwhp ON THE MOTOR. But even if it did make that, then its GOT to be COMPLETELY BUILT, not just bore, heads, cams and intake. Its not just a simple "decent mods" and BAM 400 to the tires. If that was so then hell nobody would supercharge, we'd all just big bore ours and do some bolt ons. This guy has got to have some MAJOR head work, huge ass cams, one hell of a ported intake, beefed up bottom end, and compression thru the roof. And he could have had more with a power adder with the money he spent tryin to stay NA. I'm sure he's got a ton in his heads alone! But if the guy did make that then congrats anytime a ford makes good hp then i'm all for it. But forgive me if I have hurt your precious little feelings. Didn't mean to get you so worked up. :ass3: I'm just sayin I haven't seen it, the most i've ever seen on a NA cobra is like 350, but once again if he did it then i'll drink to it :drunk:

I am here to help other Modular guys out, not belittle or make smart@ss comments to them because I disagree with them. I posted the Big Bore comment because they are an alternative in making more power and overall many Modular experts agree they are better than a Stroker.

He has worked FR500 heads and has spent $$ on it. It is completely built because the engine was built for a power adder. Then again who gets a big bore and not builds the motor up??

However it was done, which you said i was full of sh!t.

Stop making up excuses as to how he has made the power when you were found to be wrong.

 

[Dalamar]

It seems hyped up to me. Is that a loaded dyno, and it looks like about a 50 HP gain on that sheet you linked.
is that right?

In my book, it's too expensive,
this guy took the most expensive heads, and modified them, then a wet sleave big bore -
what is that about 5-6K for that stuff? plus install costs?
I mean it's cool and all, but hell, money is always a big factor.

 

[DropTopPony]

I'd also go the BigBore route over the Stroker. I've had conversations with the guys at VT and Modular Performance and according to them the BigBore is the way to go but they won't come into forums and say that because they sell alot of Stroker kits.

From all the dyno's i have seen posted over the years going with a Stroker isn't going to get you much if any hp but you will gain some tq. From the BigBore tests i've seen they will get you 30rwhp/tq on a stock 2V and an easy 50 on one with heads/cams/intake mods...you won't get that from a Stroker.

There is also a guy over on Modular Depot who is putting down 420rwhp with a NA 2V with a BigBore...its worked with full race port heads/cams etc but its over 400rwhp and just a few years ago we all thought that was damn near impossible.

Also Boss330Racing has a few 4V Cobra customers with BigBores who are @500rwhp NA.

 

[Dalamar]

It made pretty good power but I was hoping for a little more. With some juice it made 411 :banana: but i'd like to add a vortech or ATI. Nitrous is great but to me you can't beat a charger. Plus its the only thing I got left to do to it. Other than that its completely moded out the :ass3:

My build is very similar to yours. pretty good- yes, hoping for little more - yes, made 405 on juice - yes, wanna add a blower - yes
complettly moded and needs boost - yes.
:banana:

From waht I've seen, stroker won't gain much NA or peak HP, but the torque curve is much nicer.
that's the main reason I did mine.
It's kinda hard to compair, before and after because I lowered my compression.
but I'm built up for boost, but havn't added that yet.

 

[WODY281]

It made pretty good power but I was hoping for a little more. With some juice it made 411 :banana: but i'd like to add a vortech or ATI. Nitrous is great but to me you can't beat a charger. Plus its the only thing I got left to do to it. Other than that its completely moded out the :ass3:

My build is very similar to yours. pretty good- yes, hoping for little more - yes, made 405 on juice - yes, wanna add a blower - yes
complettly moded and needs boost - yes.
:banana:

From waht I've seen, stroker won't gain much NA or peak HP, but the torque curve is much nicer.
that's the main reason I did mine.
It's kinda hard to compair, before and after because I lowered my compression.
but I'm built up for boost, but havn't added that yet.

Wow thats crazy Dalamar we have the same car! Engine feels pretty nice huh? But i'm with you man, still want more! What kind of blower you going to go with? I'd like to get an ATI but DAMN at the price. I'm thinkin about a vortech. I talked to a guy at joeblowracing.com, he was really helpful and said he could sell me a tuner kit for $2800.00. What yall think sound like a fair price?

 

[Dalamar]

That's interesting info DT and BlackFang.
I would have looked into it when I did my car, but it wasn't out yet or I didnt' know.

anyway, I'm not regretting doing mine, I'm very happy with the result, and my car is built for boost.
Stroker will gain power under boost - more displacement + boost = more powa than just boost.
and like I said, my main reason was for the low end torque gain to get the car moving.

So how soon Bob?
you going wet sleave?
are you doing one on your car blackfang?

 

[Dalamar]

Wow thats crazy Dalamar we have the same car! Engine feels pretty nice huh? But i'm with you man, still want more! What kind of blower you going to go with? I'd like to get an ATI but DAMN at the price. I'm thinkin about a vortech. I talked to a guy at joeblowracing.com, he was really helpful and said he could sell me a tuner kit for $2800.00. What yall think sound like a fair price?

that's awsome Woody!
ya, it's good.
I'm still working mine in, but it feels great. It goes. my tranny pisses me off because I wanna bang gears, but it's still notchy "breaking in"

I built my car for twin turbo's, but right now I'm looking at the Rotrex blowers that Truuble is working on.

2800 for a kit is good.
adding the intercooler to any blower addes seems to add like 1200 bucks or more on those kits.
You could add WMI to that kit and run some good timing, and save come cash.
smaller pulley, tune. should be good.

How much power can your motor handle.

 

[Dalamar]

Hey Bob, what heads and intake were on that 2V?

I swear the intakes on our 2V's are slug bitches!

 

[firstonraceday]

First let's look at the stock modular bore and stroke. The stock bore is 3.552'' and the stroke is 3.543''. That stroke is HUGE
already. A 351W has a 3.5'' stroke from the factory. They have an extra 73+ CID on the modular motors. This puts it in
perspective on how extreme the stock stroke already is.

Now, combine that with a stroker kit and your piston starts leaving the bore. This is VERY bad at high RPMs as the piston
becomes extremely unstable. Stroker motors just don't last. The HP/TQ gains are so minimal as well because the valves
are still shrouded. The only time you want to use a stroker is when you have a turbo setup as turbos don't really like to rev
high either and can benefit heavily from the slightest torque band increase. The reason these are so popular though is
because you can use your stock block and you don't have to resort to using the more expensive aluminum block
counterpart like you have to in a big bore.

Big bores are what make the REAL power. We're not just talking about HP either. They make great torque and LOVE to rev
(which is just what a modular motor needs). Big bores increase the bore from 3.552'' to 3.7''. This is done by taking an
aluminum block, boring out the sleeves that are already in it, inserting new, stronger sleeves and boring them out. There
are 2 versions of big bores. One is the dry sleeve which doens't cost that much and can handle roughly 20 PSI on a
blower. This is the one you want for a mild blower application or NA application. The other one is a set sleeve where they
actually bore out the sleeve of the cylinder and insert a new heavy duty sleeve in. It is called a wet sleeve because the
coolant is touching the sleeve; this allows for cooler temps. The wet sleeve can withstand basically anything you can
throw at it. Aluminum blocks can be either wet sleeved or dry sleeved. Iron blocks can only be wet sleeved. As you
probably guessed, wet sleeving is very expensive (about $1k more than normal dry sleeving).

Now, the reason the big bore benefits is this. On the stock motor, the valves are shrouded. This means that the cylinder
isn't big enough to support the heads. Basically, the combustion chamber is bigger in diameter than the cylinder. Big
bores fix this problem by unshrouding the valves. THIS, my friends, is the secret to why big bores are making the power
and lasting as opposed to strokers. Remember this when you want to increase displacement. Oh, and don't even both with
the 324'' big bore/stroker blocks as the rod ratio is all fucked up and they are just a problem waiting to happen.

Y THEY SUCK....

 

[blackfang]

I have seen that somewhere :rollinglaugh:

Dalamar, the time being I am leaving the engine alot and going with a KB 2.1L Blower. Right now the car has enough to satisfy me for the moment and keep some Pesky LS1's at bay. I have no plans as of yet to make this car a full blown beast. Between this car, the LS1 and buying a home and my hobby of fishing my finances can't support all of them. Maybe when I get a few other projects done, I would go with a Big Bore kit with worked heads and cams with a nice KB 2.8 and have fun.


Just and FYI, Big Bore kits are not new. They have been around for a good 3-5 years. Just not many people spread the wealth. I however tend to carry info around with me being I am on over 12 Mustang sites and try and pass good word.

 

[Dalamar]

Sounds like a nice setup anyhow Blackfang.
I hear ya on the money and family side of things. that's why I don't have boost yet.



FirstonRaceDay/anyone:
Here's what I think about it:
the bore and stroke is too new to be set in stone.
and all this info seems hiped up to me.
my stroker - the skirts bairly stick out of the bore, so that "coming out of the bore, unstable stuff is not correct. as far as I can gather, it came from some shitty kit someone tested and ppl keep talking about it.
There's plenty of other motors out there with long rod strokes. and you cant really compair strokerd 302's to modulars, they're different.

Unshrouding the valves, that's good. but how much power are we talking here?
Plus, are we talking boosted or NA here?

I just think this stuff is relatively new, and it's being tested and developed, so don't go jumping to conclusions.
also remember - most "feedback" you see is sponsored or put out by the company selling the product.
so you can't really trust it as "real world Feedback" Welcome to america.

I'm sure the big bore is nice, so don't get me wrong. but people shoud stop saying strokers suck, Bore it all the way.
you got 2500 bucks plus whatever to install it - more power to ya.

I stroked my car and gave before and after info, real, rear wheel etc.
I'll have boost on my stroker later this year, and will be happy to give some more "real" feedback to my mustang brothers.
That's really what I built it for.

dont believe the hype, and dont believe bias advertising!!!

 

[firstonraceday]

this is way off topic but dalamar where did you find that gas tank cover ive been looking for one

 

[Dalamar]

this is way off topic but dalamar where did you find that gas tank cover ive been looking for one

What do you mean?

 

[DropTopPony]

I think he is referring to the Blacked out section on the bottom of your bumper cover :dunno: Not everyone was lucky enough to get that from the factory like us

Yeah those BigBores have been out a long time...
SHM/VT guys and Modular Performance (Tymesky's) have been doing them for atleast 5 years but the cost and that you should have a nice aluminum block is why they are not everyday news with the modular crowd. Just the cost alone is why you never saw much info on how much power they made thats why the Tymesky's did some before/after testing on stock 2V's and back then eventhough you gained 30+hp/tq it was cheaper and easier to just get a blower on a stock displacement rebuild so BigBores didn't catch on, except with the serious race crowd and those guys don't talk about their combinations so you never know what they are running.


BigBores = Big Money but have the capability of adding alot more HP/TQ...is it needed and practical for a daily driven Mustang...NO...thats why you won't see them often.

Strokers = The magical 5.0 displacement that everyone wants and some added TQ/HP with less investment then a BigBore so they will always be more popular.

Ford screwed us with the 3.552 Bore but atleast these modulars love boost.
I hear the 2009 will come with a larger bore so maybe that will be an option for us in the future.

 

[Dalamar]

from my sig pic I guess. - yep that's just the bottom of the bumper cover painted black. Me and Bob's cars came that way


Thanks for giving us some perspective! :thumb:


my displacement is magical - woot!
must get boost....

 

[firstonraceday]

damn that sux i live that....well it look good 8)

 

[WODY281]

Yeah it does! Does any body have any pics that rear cover on a red gt?

 

[DropTopPony]

You can paint yours Flat or Satin Black...alot of people have done it and there was even a write up on here a few months back from when a member did it. The write up was either in this section or the 94-95 i think...