All four calipers won't release

[weendoggy]

Yep, those front bearings are sealed and should be tighter than a bull frogs butt in fly season. Checking all that we can throw at you won't cost $$, just time.

 

[joeybuddy96]

@94IndyPace
I got the push rod from the brake booster adjusted to where it's just barely not making contact with the MC piston. The way I got it set the way it currently is was to unscrew it long enough that fitting the MC over it would bump into the push rod. Then I back it off enough to where it would fully seat, and then a hair more. The push rod doesn't have any pressure/preload applied to it where it is right now. It took me like an hour to get it right; if I do it over, I'll get one of those little H-shaped tools to measure it precisely.
@cobrajeff96
I changed out both of the rear bearings three or four months ago. The right front wheel bearing got changed out not long before I bought it. I think the left front bearing would be the only one that could possibly be bad. I have checked for wheel wobble before, but I'll check it again when I work on the brakes next weekend.

 

[ttocs]

I switched to the baer MC and it required setting the end of the brake up to make the max stroke. I had to buy a stupid little tool to measure it and of course only used it one time. If it can be of help here to be sure you have it set right I can send it. It has just been in my box now for years since and that does not mean i would not want it back but if someone else can use it and send it back it is available.

 

[ttocs]

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Slice]

Certainly makes it easier. But bear in mind the rear calipers need a kit that turns the piston the same time while compressing them. It's what the two indentations are for on the face of the rear caliper pistons.

Why the need to turn the piston when compressing?

 

[ttocs]

I thought you only turned them to remove them but it has been a minute since mine were stock....

 

[weendoggy]

Why the need to turn the piston when compressing?

You turn the rear caliper piston in due to the emergency brake mechanism inside that is screw mounted to the piston, and keeps the pads adjusted as you apply the e-brake. That's why the piston "slots" have to be in the 12/6 o'clock position so the pad tabs fit. Ever try to fit them when not in that position? If you were to try to compress the piston with a "C" clamp and apply enough pressure, you ruin the piston/screw assembly. Again, this is rear only.

 

[joeybuddy96]

Got one of the rear calipers off and the new one on. In the process of that, the fluid drained out from the master cylinder reservoir. I bled the master cylinder yet again.

Trying to figure out why in the world I can't start bleeding the brakes. There's no increase in pedal pressure at all. I can just keep stepping on it, with the key out, with it turned to ignition, with the car on, it doesn't make any difference. Trac button on, trac button off, no difference. With the car on, I can hear an abnormal amount of air being pushed out of the brake booster where the brake pedal is. I haven't messed with the brake booster at all.

I did replace an abs sensor. That made all of the abs errors go away and the abs light is finally off. I tried unplugging the abs to put it back into error state, but that made no difference.

This makes no sense. I've drained the master cylinder before, but was able to bleed it at each caliper.

Any ideas?

Edit: nvm. Works. Idk what I did. Just randomly works now.

 

[94IndyPace]

You could’ve entered air into the ABS now, since it went empty on you. Or the booster is bad.

 

[ttocs]

How are you bleeding the abs pump? I thought you needed the ford computer to cycle it to do that? I found a dusty parking lot and got the car to go into abs braking because they locked up on the dirt. That is supposed to be about the same as bench bleeding it the way it recommends, after that I used a power bleeder to bleed the brake lines and it has been fine since.

 

[joeybuddy96]

@94IndyPace Yeah, I guess it could be the brake booster. The pressure was working *too well* before it went dry; I mean the calipers not releasing. Would pumping the brakes to bleed them actually damage the BB? Like maybe too much pressure damaging a seal or diaphragm?

@ttocs I just bled the brakes by pressing the brake pedal. I didn't touch the hydraulic distributor. I haven't read or watched any instructions on bleeding the distributor. I've got the master cylinder bleeder kit, but I don't have any professional scanner/control tool that would open the valves; just the little OSB link reader.

After I wrote that previous post yesterday, I got done bleeding all the calipers. I took it for a test drive and noticed three things: 1. the ABS light keeps coming back on after I clear the codes and drive for like ten minutes. It's different codes. I'll list them later after they pop back up. 2. The vibration is still there. I've only replaced the rear right caliper, so it's not completely dissapointing. That rotor looked pretty worn, so it's possible that could be contributing to it. 3. The most significant thing is that the pedal is mushy. This is after I've done the bleeding and felt pressure when the key is in the off position; when it's in the ignition position or engine running position, the pedal is mushy. The pedal travels 2/3s of the way down before it starts to grip. Before the MC went dry, I could get grip after just tapping the brake pedal. So something's wrong. I've still got to change out the rear left caliper, replace the two caliper pistons on the front right caliper, and replace the remaining three hoses (I already replaced the rear right brake line). I'm not going to mess with the left front caliper. I expect that the MC is going to go dry again, and I'll have to bleed the MC for the umpteenth time.

One major problem I had in the course of bleeding the calipers was the actual system of the bleeder screws. Maybe it's because they're basic models, but they have no check valves at all. There might be some third-party bleeder valves that have check valves, but there's no guarantee they'll be compatible with the models of calipers I have. I bought a variety pack of valves, but none of them had the right combination of screw length and thread pitch to be compatible. The lack of a check valve means that if they're open too far, air gets into the bleeder bottle tube, so I can't tell what air is coming from the gap between the screw and the caliper body and what air is coming from the lines; or the screw is too tight, so it's not pushing any fluid out through the bleeder screw. That whole thing means I'm left almost completely gueesing if the lines have air in them or not. I suppose I could maybe use the little fittings from the MC bleeder kit and connect that to the bleeder bottle, but I'd have zero control over the rate that the fluid is being pushed out. Still might be worth a shot.

I should also mention I had to splice in a short length of brake line, but those connection points haven't had a drop of fluid leaking. Air could be getting in through there, maybe, but I think that's unlikely since fluid would also be pushed out.

 

[weendoggy]

fyi: you don't need bleeder valves, or even a helper if you just have yourself. You can half-fill a water bottle (empty of course) with good brake fluid. Connect a bleeder hose (clear rubber tubing) to the caliper bleeder and the other end into the bottle, making sure it's submerged in the fluid. Then you can open the bleeder, step on the brake a few times slowly to disperse air. When you release, you'll pull brake fluid, not air. This is a simple way, but having a person do the pushing is better, and/or a bleeder. Also, start, RR, LR, RF, LF.

 

[ttocs]

if you have not bled the abs module that is probably the mushy pedal problem. If you do not have and can't find anyone with the computer then find a dirty parking lot or maybe a nice flat wet grassy field you are not attached to like I did and get the abs to kick in when it locks up on the dirt/dust/grass. Then go and bleed the calipers again and see if that fixes it.

As for the vibration, idunno....

 

[joeybuddy96]

fyi: you don't need bleeder valves, or even a helper if you just have yourself. You can half-fill a water bottle (empty of course) with good brake fluid. Connect a bleeder hose (clear rubber tubing) to the caliper bleeder and the other end into the bottle, making sure it's submerged in the fluid. Then you can open the bleeder, step on the brake a few times slowly to disperse air. When you release, you'll pull brake fluid, not air. This is a simple way, but having a person do the pushing is better, and/or a bleeder. Also, start, RR, LR, RF, LF.

That's kind of part of the problem: when the bleeder screw is opened, even the tiniest fraction of an inch, air is getting into the threads and from there the air leaks out into the bleeder bottle tube. I get tons of air bubbles from that, and it makes it impossible to tell what is pushed from the lines and what's from air that sneaks in through the threads. When I sprayed a very small amount of soapy water on the bleeder screw, the bubbles stopped. Someone elsewhere mentioned putting some grease around the valve to block the air; I'd rather not have grease enter into the lines bc I'd never manage to get it back out, but I think very little of it would be pulled into the caliper, if at all. I'm going to use some red tacky grease when I do all that hard labor this weekend.

 

[cobrajeff96]

Keep in mind that when the key is out of the ignition cylinder, the ABS pump valves are wide open and affect nothing. But when you inset and turn the key, the ABS cycles the valves rapidly as part of its power-on self-test. If any air is present during this, it'll just get more agitated and sent god knows where. And so you'd have to wait for a bit and then try again. Not sure if you did this or not, but it's best to never energize the ABS pump during the middle of a bleed procedure. Just sayin

 

[weendoggy]

That's kind of part of the problem: when the bleeder screw is opened, even the tiniest fraction of an inch, air is getting into the threads and from there the air leaks out into the bleeder bottle tube. I get tons of air bubbles from that, and it makes it impossible to tell what is pushed from the lines and what's from air that sneaks in through the threads. When I sprayed a very small amount of soapy water on the bleeder screw, the bubbles stopped. Someone elsewhere mentioned putting some grease around the valve to block the air; I'd rather not have grease enter into the lines bc I'd never manage to get it back out, but I think very little of it would be pulled into the caliper, if at all. I'm going to use some red tacky grease when I do all that hard labor this weekend.

You don't have to open the caliper bleeder very far for it to pass fluid. I'd make sure your bleeder hose is tight on the "nipple" of the bleeder screw. 1/4 to 3/8 turn is all that's really needed. You can do it the "really old fashion way" when we used to just open the bleeder (one only) and let it gravity feed for an hour or two. Problem then was, they had their beer break and forgot.

 

[joeybuddy96]

Keep in mind that when the key is out of the ignition cylinder, the ABS pump valves are wide open and affect nothing. But when you inset and turn the key, the ABS cycles the valves rapidly as part of its power-on self-test. If any air is present during this, it'll just get more agitated and sent god knows where. And so you'd have to wait for a bit and then try again. Not sure if you did this or not, but it's best to never energize the ABS pump during the middle of a bleed procedure. Just sayin

*slowly realizes* Ohhhh. Yeah, I definitely did that this last time. I also did that the time previous to that when I was just bleeding the calipers and not doing anything else, but I didn't get the same result of mush, so idk why this last time was different. I'll at least avoid inserting the key when I'm bleeding the breaks this weekend to eliminate that variable.

@ttocs I'll try that, if I can get the ABS codes to stay off for long enough to do a hard brake to activate the ABS valves. The codes still keep reappearing randomly while I'm just cruising on the interstate in fair weather and nothing else is happening. Could be a bad wire or connection or smth. I think if it were a bad GEM or some module, it'd be constant rather than intermittent. For me, not knowing when the ABS is going to suddenly stop working and revert to standard braking is a safety hazard.

@weendoggy Yeah, it's on there. I can tell the hose isn't the problem, bc the bubbles are completely stationary when I completely close the bleeder screw. I'm just baaaarely opening it up, and like a fraction of a degree determines whether it's not allowing any fluid to be pushed out, or if air is going to enter in through the threads. It's not allowing air into the lines, at least. It's just such a freaking bad design.

 

[cobrajeff96]

I can't remember too well but did you check for bearing play? I ask because the clearances involved between the VR sensor and the tone ring are toight. Rust, gunk, corrosion, etc. will potentially effect the module's ability to get good readings too. It could be that simple.

 

[weendoggy]

@weendoggy Yeah, it's on there. I can tell the hose isn't the problem, bc the bubbles are completely stationary when I completely close the bleeder screw. I'm just baaaarely opening it up, and like a fraction of a degree determines whether it's not allowing any fluid to be pushed out, or if air is going to enter in through the threads. It's not allowing air into the lines, at least. It's just such a freaking bad design.

You will always see bubbles in the bleeder hose. No way of getting around that. You just want to see a nice stream, even small, of fluid passing through. I use a pressure bleeder and never have issues. It's almost better than having the wife press the pedal.

 

[ttocs]

I have to agree a pressure bleeder was the way to go for me.