All four calipers won't release

[cobrajeff96]

Yea I agree, any worse and it might not be able to hold a seal on the bead. And aggressive cornering? Forget that.

 

[ttocs]

yup that was my first thought. Got a spare? Throw it on and see if it goes away.

 

[joeybuddy96]

@weendoggy Welp...nuts. That means my next target would be to start shopping for rims after I get the brakes done. @ttocs update: yeah I could also try to swap out that wheel with the donut to confirm that's the source of the vibtations. Sending it to 60 is an iffy prospect, since those things are only rated at 50mph, but oh well.

Anyone know of a good brand of rims that'll match the style of the body?

Side note: when ordering from rockauto, apparently you have to order rotors in units of two, since apparently they only have one rotor per unit ordered. I assumed they shipped in pairs like with pads, and I vaguely remember buying rotors from a retailer and they had two to a box like a decade ago, but I coud be misremembering that. I know you're supposed to replace rotors in pairs so they wear symmetrically, but the rear and front passenger side ones were where the calipers were messed up and where they might be warped. We'll see what happens.

 

[cobrajeff96]

Whatever you do, do not buy anything from American Muscle.

 

[weendoggy]

I got my wheel sets from LMR. Can't beat the service and price is reasonable. If you're looking to "cheap it out" wheels, good luck. Used is a crap shoot unless you see them in person. imo Also, buying one rotor is a big no-no. Get the set. Don't have to get all four, but axle...YES! Why cheap out the most important aspect of the car...stopping. This is where you want to spend good $$ along with having a sound drivetrain. All i.m.o. You can get decent rotors from RockAuto at a very reasonable price, just remember shipping costs. Get a quote from them and another vendor, easy to do.

 

[joeybuddy96]

Aight, got another rear and front rotor ordered. Also got a fuel neck gasket seal grommet thing and a pcv. Another $70.

 

[weendoggy]

Aight, got another rear and front rotor ordered. Also got a fuel neck gasket seal grommet thing and a pcv. Another $70.

I hope you matched them with the previous ones you got. Only thing is "some" front rotors are a R & L depending on how they have the vanes. My Stop Tech rotors were like that, but I switched to DBA and they'er the same R/L.

 

[joeybuddy96]

I hope you matched them with the previous ones you got. Only thing is "some" front rotors are a R & L depending on how they have the vanes. My Stop Tech rotors were like that, but I switched to DBA and they'er the same R/L.

I got two different brands before I saw your post. I didn't know there were any significant differences between models aside from diameter and ventilation. I'll have to wait until Saturday before I find out if they look different. I've got the base 3.8L model and bought some of the cheapest rotors, so they shouldn't be laterally asymmetrical like the more expensive ones for GTs, Mach, Cobra, etc..

 

[joeybuddy96]

The shop manual says to do pinpoint test H if it keeps throwing C1222 and C1165 errors. It requires a scan tool that can display live PID info and you have to drive around while an assistant watches the live data. The OBDLink tool I've got can only display PID and TID info while the car is not in motion, but some info is better than none.

I haven't been able to find any copies of the SAE PID reference list for specific Ford vehicles. The scan tool can display the PID and data it collects, but I've got no way of telling what PID goes to which component. There are lists of what each plain text PID refers to (e.g. RR_WSPD refers to the right rear wheel speed sensor) but not the PID or TID itself. See photos. E.g. Component ID $12 TID $04 recorded a value of 0 for something that has a minimum value of 77. No clues as far as what in the world any of those things mean, since it's all locked down as proprietary trade secrets or smth.

The right rear tire is the only one that is a slightly different size, so maybe that's tripping the sensor error. It's like 215, but the others are 225, iirc. Idk man, maybe all the electrical problems with this car are due to water intrusion shorting everything out. Sometimes the inside of the car is wetter than the outside. Convertible top doesn't work, the rear right window doesn't work, got something going on with the ABS that is probably just electrical, the evap sensor throwing errors.

I should mention the ABS control module was making a whining, grinding, buzzing noise yesterday when I started up the car and the instrument panel displayed the traction control and ABS symbols, but I haven't gotten it to do it again since then, so that only narrows the possible causes down to a million different things. Could be the harness, a *second* potentially bad ABS control module, bad GEM, etc..

 

[weendoggy]

Your C1222 code is wheel speed and is due to the mismatch tire size throwing a code. C1165 points to the right rear (your problem) and the fact the sensor is reading error and/or wiring to the sensor is compromised, somewhere. So, the two are tied together and as long as you know what's going on, you know where to look and trace wiring. The sensor has an ohm range of 800-1400. If you want to do some simple tests, move that tire to the left rear, or any other position and see if the code follows. Problem solved.

 

[cobrajeff96]

Whoa, mang. Whoa.

Let's get the exact sizes of all four tires at this point.

 

[weendoggy]

Obviously he stated two different sizes, leaving out section height and rim, which needs to be figured in as well. Easy elimination is to change the position, before going into a hornets nest of wiring, OR, better yet, get all the same ratios on all 4. If it turns up again, find the problem. Now, get back on the pony.

 

[ttocs]

mismatched wheels/tires size will make an abs computer very unhappy.

The noise you described it made the other day, it is like it sounds when abs kicks in? It might have cycled and got some of the air through it.

 

[joeybuddy96]

@weendoggy
Front right: 225/55R16 99H
Rear right (the one potentially activating the code): 215/55R16 97W
Front left: 225/55R16 99H
Rear left: 225/55R16 99H

Keep in mind this is more relevant to the ABS codes than the vibration problem. I got all four new tires in an attempt to solve the vibration.

@ttocs That noise wasn't something I'd heard before; that's what made me pop the hood. I could hear it from the driver's seat. It stopped before I could get an audio recording of it. Recently, the ABS light will most often turn on after I've driven for like 15 minutes, but that one time, the green traction symbol on the instrument panel lit up.

 

[cobrajeff96]

Ok, the tires sizes shouldn't be a problem, the difference is negligible.

How are the brake pads looking? I can't remember if you changed those or not. I recently had an ABS light come due to extremely low front pad life. These old Bosch units are actually fairly sophisticate for their time.

 

[weendoggy]

Again, to eliminate the possibility of the code being thrown on the RR where the tire (odd size is), it'll only cost you time/labor to change it to another position. Maybe LR, and if the code follows the tire, you found your problem without spending money chasing what you think it is. If it stays on the RR, then you can start investigating the problem, which will most likely be the most time consuming. I had a saying when I was running a shop, "take a shotgun to it, you're bound to hit something". Problem with that is you never know exactly what the cause was because you just change a lot of parts. Some that don't need changing. This is the reasoning people take instead of troubleshooting the issue. jmo

 

[joeybuddy96]

Got the second refurbished LR caliper on, all four new rotors, new rear pads, already had new front pads from a couple of weeks ago, and both brand new front calipers. It took forever, especially like two or three hours of fiddling with the front metal brake pad hardware shims so they wouldn't contact the rotors, on the front left more than the right. I don't think it's just from the rotors and pads being new; that's what they're designed and measured around. Then again, they're not precision machined. I have like three baggies of them now. It's possible that if I can find some washers big enough to fit around the caliper bracket bolts (or make some out of a couple of coins) I could offset it by a like a millimeter so the shim isn't touching the rotor. I checked repeadly to make sure the shims and ABS sensor weren't touching anything. The pads ofc were touching during testing, even with trying to pry them off the rotor to get as much space when the pistons are released as possible. There's just not any mechanical component that is pulling the pads off the rotor--it doesn't exist on the lower end calipers. Maybe it does on the $2500 redesigned calipers, but all the regular OEM style ones don't have anything forcing the pads to not just scrape the rotors after braking. One the OEM version, the pistons move the caliper and inside pad only, but even the inside pad isn't locked down onto the pistons. So I took the car for a test drive around the block a few times with an assistant in the passenger seat, and I hear a noise that sounds like it's metal on metal coming from one of the right side calipers, not pads on the rotors. My assistant couldn't hear it above the engine noise, but I could hear it when passing slowly next to parked cars. It increases slightly in volume with and is an uneven cyclical noise. Tomorrow, I'll have to put it back on the stands again and check on the right front and maybe the right rear caliper. It almost sounds like it's the right rear one, but that's hard to tell. I only changed out the rotors on the right rear one, and had checked to make sure the shims weren't scraping. I predict that I'm going to end up taking the tires off, inspecting it, and finding that everything looks fine and there's no contact, so if there's smth I can do to anticipate that problem, let me know now.

Before the test drive, I purged and bled all four corners twice, bc it wouldn't build pressure. Put ptfe tape *and* grease on the bleeder screws, purged and bled them all over again. Got pressure. Pedal pressure felt solid with the key in ignition position. With engine started and driving around, it felt mushier than that, but still not as bad as a couple of weeks ago.

Before the test drive, I cleared the ABS codes, turned off car, took the key out, waited a few seconds, started the car back up, got the ABS codes immediately. I also swapped the position of the two rear wheels. That suggests to me that it's maybe the wiring or some module or smth.

I'd been checking to make sure there were zero leaks during the bleeding. After the test drive, I noticed the right rear banjo bolt appeared to have a few drops of brake fluid on it. I'd already tightened it down to the 30 ft lb torque specified by the shop manual when I replaced it a month ago. It's probably at like 40 ft lbs now. I didn't and don't want to over-tighten it. It still leaked after that, so I tighted it gradually a bit at a time until it stopped leaking during bleeding. I'm leary of tightening it more, but I don't think 45 ft lbs is going to ruin it. That's what I've got the front banjo bolts set to. It has new washers. If it keeps leaking after that, I'll have to take it out and see if ptfe tape will help it any. Idk how long ptfe tape resists brake fluid, though, bc if it eats through the tape I'm back at the start and probably won't find out that it's been leaking again until it's already been doing it for like weeks.

 

[cobrajeff96]

You have copper crush washers on both sides of any banjo joint, right? One between caliper body and banjo, and one between banjo and bolt head, in other words. And these washers are likely 3/8" or 9.5mm and fit perfectly around the bolt shank yes?

 

[ttocs]

if the abs light comes on and stays on if I am not mistaken it means the fluid is low?

 

[joeybuddy96]

You have copper crush washers on both sides of any banjo joint, right? One between caliper body and banjo, and one between banjo and bolt head, in other words. And these washers are likely 3/8" or 9.5mm and fit perfectly around the bolt shank yes?

Yep, both are new washers and there's one washer on both sides of the hose thingy. I used the bolt and washers that came with the refurbished unit.