Bumpsteer Kit Help Please!

Discussion in 'General Tech' started by 5PointSnow, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. 5PointSnow

    5PointSnow New Member

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    Okay so I've installed a steeda bumpster kit and just went to the alignment shop and they told me they couldn't adjust the kit and said they don't think it would work..? They said my best bet would be to drop the tie rod as low as I can to make the rod as level as possible. What do you guys think about this opinion?

    my other idea is to copy the location of someone who has the same springs(sportlines) and oem style ball joints if anyone on here has this setup..?

    I know the instructions say to use trial and error and check toe changes on the rack while lowering the suspension so maybe I should keep going to different alignment shops and asking them if they've done it before.
     
  2. OnyxCobra

    OnyxCobra Legend

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    The tie rod shouldn't be level, it should be parallel with the control arm.
     
  3. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    I am confused. The whole point of a bumpsteer kit is to get the tie rod more parallel to the ground. That's why the bolts are longer for the tie rod, to allow it to drop down more rather than angle upwards (assuming your car is lowered) towards the knuckle. How do you have the kit installed? Pics?
     
  4. slow90coupe

    slow90coupe Well-Known Member

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    Pics would help. I "maxed out" my bumpsteer kit when I installed it, that's what most people seem to do. Put the tie rod ends down as far as possible.
     
  5. OnyxCobra

    OnyxCobra Legend

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    that is incorrect.



    I went with the MM bolt thru style because it offers more adjustability for extra low cars. That combined with offset steering rack bushings should be enough to get you about there.
     
  6. ReplicaR

    ReplicaR Well-Known Member

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    First of all, Bumpsteer should be dialed in. The whole approach of getting it parallel to control arms is still a pretty good deal away from being dialed in. That's like installing camber caster plates, then eyeballing the alignment, and calling it a day. Why would you buy precision performance parts, if you're not going to dial them in?
     
  7. OnyxCobra

    OnyxCobra Legend

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    a rep from MM told me straight up parallel is good enough for 99% of people that use it. he told me the bumpsteer measuring device was not worth it most of the time. Getting it parallel is getting it very close, essentially so they make the same arch of travel when the suspension compresses/extends.

    And I eyed up my caster/camber and measured/set the toe myself 2 years ago and it honestly drives pretty good. The point is that it's still a hell of a lot better than not doing it.
     
  8. ReplicaR

    ReplicaR Well-Known Member

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    Dude, they will tell you anything as long as they sell product. Bottom line is, if you want precision, and you buy precision products, please do yourself a favor, and dial it in, or don't waste your money. MM told me that it was impossible to have a helper spring setup in the back for coilovers, yet I was able to piece one together OTS parts, and it's been just fine for the past 6 years. They told me that the only way to get more traction the front was to make rear bar stiffer, and change the balance, however the real answer so far has been to actually increase the spring rate in order to support the weight, and dial in way more camber than they recommended. They usually have pretty good tech, but they don't get paid for tech advice, but for the parts they sell. I like their parts, and I appreciate the FREE tech support, but ball park idea just doesn't work for parts like these.


    Edit: Always take info that someone else gave you with a GIANT grain of salt. If you have not tested yourself, and you don't have the data collected first hand, you can never be sure about what you see from someone else. You don't have to trust me either. After all, I'm just another user on the board with 0 engineering qualifications to give technical advice.
     
  9. 5PointSnow

    5PointSnow New Member

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    Ok guys when I put mine In I put it roughly parallel to the control arm expecting a shop to do the fine tuning but now that that's been harder than I thought idk should I try dropping it all the way, right now it's set near the middle of the adjustment since the instructions said that's a good place to start with stock k member and ball joints.
    Also I would love to have it precision tuned in but as I said the shops around here have no idea that these kits even exist...
     
  10. 5PointSnow

    5PointSnow New Member

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    Here's it now 2 biggest spacers on bottom rest on top (dirty because winter dd :/)
    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
     
  11. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Okay, perhaps I worded it somewhat poorly - I shouldn't have said "parallel" - though effectively that is what you are trying to do. Bumpsteer is introduced when your wheels go "up" or "down" - hit a bump - and the tie rods are not able to adequately adjust with the movement, and thus introduce undesired toe (either in or out depending) on the wheels. The more parallel the tie rod, the more room it has before it starts affecting toe. Yes, it can be dialed in even more. But the big picture is generally "parallel." The more angle you have on the tie-rod, which is what happens when cars are lowered due to the rack now being lower than the knucle, the more pronounced bumpsteer becomes. If you have a bumpsteer kit and a bumpsteer gauge, then by all means dial it in. If you don't have the gauge, then you are shooting for parallel. So, what I said, effectively, is not incorrect. I guess I should have said "the whole point of a bumpsteer kit is to adjust bumpsteer" but that's cyclical and doesn't really add any value. Thus the "parallel" I used instead. Or use your gauge if you have it.
     
  12. OnyxCobra

    OnyxCobra Legend

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    that's kind of my point though, they could have sold me a $120 bumpsteer gauge but the guy said it wasn't worth it. I also asked about the helper springs and got a different answer, so maybe they aren't all on the same page (probably the case since this isn't the first time their advice has varied).

    Bottom line is this, i can tell you my eyeballing set up of my bumpsteer kit made a huge difference over not having it, so even though it might not be dialed in PERFECTLY, it's still a hell of a lot better than it was. I can tell you before my tie rod was not even close to parallel with my control arm and now it is, so that's proof enough for me that it makes the difference worth it for what, $140 part?
     
  13. OnyxCobra

    OnyxCobra Legend

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    unless they're a performance type alignment shop they won't have the bumpsteer gauge necessary to fine tune that setting. typical alignment consists of camber, caster and toe.



    dude I know what bumpsteer is. you do want the tie rod parallel, but not to the ground like you said. you want it parallel to the control arm.
     
  14. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    They are saying they can't adjust it because adjusting bumpsteer is a huge PITA and they probably don't want to bother. Or don't have the experience to do it. If you want to get serious about it, find a shop that works on track cars, they will be able to help (and do other good stuff like corner-weight for you, etc.). Or go to MM's site and buy their bumpsteer gauge. But before you do, look at the instructions and see what you are getting yourself into it. It's not a hard process, it just takes a lot of time.

    If you don't want to bother with all that, then yes, do what they say - get the tie rod as parallel to the ground as you can - move spacers if necessary. It won't be perfect, but it will be better. If you just drive on the street, then it will be good enough. If you track it, then I highly suggest you find a shop and buy the gauge tool.

    Do you have the kit because the car is really lower and it gets squirrely when you hit bumps (meaning it's for corrective action)? Or do you have the kit because you actually want to adjust bumpsteer (meaning it's for proactive action)?
     
  15. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    No, if we are being technical, then this is just as wrong as my statement "parallel to the ground." The actual technical alignment is to calculate the instant center via intersection lines through the suspension pickups/geometry, and align the tie to *that.* (This is essentially what you are doing via trial and error buy using the tool, you are calculating the instant center.) This can very easily result in a tie rod that is neither parallel to the ground, nor to the lower control arm. But it's all good, I really don't want to argue. Perhaps "parallel to the ground" is a bad thing to say. It's just a rule of thumb. I'm sure it also depends on a lot of stuff too like how low the car is. Either way, best bet is to just get a shop/tool and get it to where you are happy.
     
  16. McCloud

    McCloud Active Member

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    The guy who installed my MM k-member kit races American Iron series. He dialed in the bumpsteer when he did my alignment. If you want, I can take a picture of my control arm and tie rod end alignment tomorrow when I go to work on it.
     
  17. OnyxCobra

    OnyxCobra Legend

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    it's not as wrong. parallel with the ground is totally wrong. if anything is a rule of thumb its parallel to the control arm. but like i said before it may not be perfect.


    yeah, let us know cause I'm curious if it's more parallel to the ground or control arm.
     
  18. 5PointSnow

    5PointSnow New Member

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    That would be great if you could I'd love to see a properly set up kit.
     
  19. McCloud

    McCloud Active Member

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    Alright. It will more than likely be Saturday before I post the pic up. I've got to get it down off the jackstands and that'll be after I get off work.
     
  20. 5PointSnow

    5PointSnow New Member

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    Alright I'm in no hurry so take your time and thanks for your help!