Clone Cars/Fake Cobras/Fake Cobra R's

garrittpwl

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This isn't a rant thread as you might have thought due to the title. This is a philosophy thread.

Recently a pair of real y2k "R" seats popped up for sale on FB Marketplace (6500 asking price, a bit steep but collectors pay to play). So after commenting on there and someone calling David Isaacks Y2K clone a "fake cobra r" it had me thinking. If you know the car I'm talking about you'll know that every little detail was spent in making this car an EXACT y2k cobra, it is now more original than most real cobra R's (the guy even custom made an exact y2k cobra intake manifold).

All that aside there is a thought puzzle debate that goes as far back to the Greeks called the Ship of Theseus. The general gist of the thought puzzle is that if you restore a ship to exact specifications and replace every single piece exactly the way it was, is it still the same ship? The way I apply this to an "R" car is that; if you trashed your cobra real R, you could legally (with state paperwork) transfer that VIN and all of it's authentic parts to a new shell. Would it still be the "R"?

I say yes, I base this yes back on the Ship of Theseus debate, a boat is a boat regardless of it being entirely replaced (a river is a river though its water is ever changing). Mecum and Barrett Jackson would be selling bags of rust with vin tags if this weren't the case.

So lastly, my OPINION, if you start with a mustang shell, build it to be 99% authentic to a "Cobra" or even a "Cobra R". To the point that the TRAINED viewer would not know a difference, then you have a Cobra :p
 

joemomma

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Interesting take, and probably something that needs to be discussed over a few beers lol. Personally, I've got a GT that I've put a Cobra front end on (aftermarket fiberglass Cobra hood, Cobra front bumper, and Cobra-style headlights/fog lights). No Cobra badges or intentions of trying to be a Cobra. It just looks 100% better than the GT front end. I'm sure there are folks that will accuse me of trying to be a Cobra, and that's fine. If they took the time to ask I'd say "no, not trying to be a Cobra, I just like the looks of the Cobra front end better" and that would be it.

As to your question, a ship is still a ship even if you replaced every board and nail. Same with cars - they get wrecked and parts replaced every day.
 

badass98svt

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So lastly, my OPINION, if you start with a mustang shell, build it to be 99% authentic to a "Cobra" or even a "Cobra R". To the point that the TRAINED viewer would not know a difference, then you have a Cobra :p
That's not what the VIN would tell you, or the resale value. I don't see SVT sending anyone a certificate for their clone. A Marti report would tell you otherwise as well.

In your mind, you woukd be ok with having sex with a "woman" that started life as a man, as long as they had the goods?:p
 
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garrittpwl

garrittpwl

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That's not what the VIN would tell you, or the resale value. I don't see SVT sending anyone a certificate for their clone. A Marti report would tell you otherwise as well.

In your mind, you woukd be ok with having sex with a "woman" that started life as a man, as long as they had the goods?:p
Hahahah depends on how good the surgeon was (kidding of course) but to my other point, what if an R vin was transferred (by whatever means aka only using the dash, panel and rebuilding the rest of the car etc etc). This happens often with restorations firewalls get replaced and tags get transferred but then is it the same car?
 
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badass98svt

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Hahahah depends on how good the surgeon was (kidding of course) but to my other point, what if an R vin was transferred?

Nope, still not the real deal.
What would the Marti report say? The resale would still be crap too.
Again, all my opinion of course.
Ask a Saleen owner or 2 what they think about Saleen clones.
 

ttocs

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Maybe its because I have only had a GT and it has some cobra parts on it as well as some that are better that I have never cared about the whole fake/real/tribute/what ever debate. Someday when I have my shelby I will look down at all mustang owners from my perch high above and know they are beneath me :) and then I might understand. But probably not to me a mustang is a mustang and if your cool then your cool and I will hang out and talk shit about what ever with you no matter if you have a cobra bumper or worse, actually have a cobra emblem on your GT!!!!!
 

badass98svt

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I'm not really bothered by the bumpers etc, I'm just saying that the car will never be anything but what it started life as.


This debate seriously reminds me of all those different genders people are trying to claim. It's pretty cut and dry as far as I am concerned.
 

ttocs

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I don't think I have ever met a person with cobra parts or badges that actually thought it was a cobra or told anyone it was. Even if they didn't want to admit it wasn't a real cobra they always have.
 

RAU03MACH

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That's not what the VIN would tell you, or the resale value. I don't see SVT sending anyone a certificate for their clone. A Marti report would tell you otherwise as well.

In your mind, you woukd be ok with having sex with a "woman" that started life as a man, as long as they had the goods?:p
im lost of words for that
 

RAU03MACH

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there was a guy down here claiming he had a 03 mach1, he made some changes
but you could tell it was a v6 car
the engine and drive line changed computer harness changed
but the inside was v6
 

PinkieT

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I can see taking a standard 66 Mustang and making a Shelby clone out of it, because a real Shelby would cost ten times as much or more and is out of the reach of normal people. Cloning an SN95 Cobra? Can't see it myself.

I had a correct VIN 1970 440 six pack Road Runner. The fender tag was missing and the block was a 74. I NEVER tried to pass it off as correct. When I had the fender tag remade, I had it made as it was built and not as I had modified it with the optional Air Grabber hood, buckets, etc. That's how I roll and always will.
 
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garrittpwl

garrittpwl

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I can see taking a standard 66 Mustang and making a Shelby clone out of it, because a real Shelby would cost ten times as much or more and is out of the reach of normal people. Cloning an SN95 Cobra? Can't see it myself.

I had a correct VIN 1970 440 six pack Road Runner. The fender tag was missing and the block was a 74. I NEVER tried to pass it off as correct. When I had the fender tag remade, I had it made as it was built and not as I had modified it with the optional Air Grabber hood, buckets, etc. That's how I roll and always will.
You guys are missing the philosophical point. If there was no way to tell that it was a clone. No way at all, would it still be a clone?
 

badass98svt

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You guys are missing the philosophical point. If there was no way to tell that it was a clone. No way at all, would it still be a clone?

Yes, still a clone. I covered that in my first post lol.

Let me put it to you this way
Let's say you make a Cobra clone as perfect as possible. (The VIN will ALWAYS tell you the truth about the car)
Would you sell the car as a Cobra?
 

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