Complete rebuild on T45...same problems. Opinions??

Discussion in 'Drivetrain' started by BMAC96GT, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    I'll try to keep this short winded.

    Story: Sent two T45s to the T45 Source to get him to send me 1 rebuilt T45 back. He tore both transmissions apart, and used the best parts out of the two to make one good one, as well as replacing parts that need it. I get the trans back, put it in the car, and I'm having the same issues I was having before I sent it off. Zak from the T45 source is calling me sometime today to talk about it, but I figured I would ask yalls opinion on what you think it could be.

    Build list from T45 Source:
    -Front seal
    -Rear seal
    -Replace stock synchro inserts (1-2, 3-4, 5-R)
    -Replace stock shift fork pads
    -Fiber-lined synchro rings (all gears)
    -Replace stock synchro springs
    -Clutch fork pivot ball stud
    -1-2 Shift fork from Tremec trans (stronger shift fork than Borg Warner)
    -New input shaft
    -SureShift billet shift fork (3-4)

    Issues: My problems occur in 2nd and 4th gear. If I'm easy on the trans, I have no problems with any gear. If i use 1st or 3rd gear to engine brake the car, like coming to a stop light or turn, and drop it into 3rd making the RPMs rise, 2nd and 4th gear become blocked off, or halfway engage then pop out when I let out the clutch. Most of the time, I have to coast with the clutch in and work the gear shifter in and out of 2nd or 4th (whichever one im trying to get into) until finally it goes all the way in gear. Its something to do with the opposite force being put on the trans. Not the force that propels the car, but the force of slowing the car down. 1st, 3rd, and 5th are perfect. Any RPM range, any scenario. 2nd and 4th are where I have problems.



    ***Also, the whining in the transmission is still completely there, as it was before. It's in every gear but 4th, and only when I'm accelerating, or giving it any throttle. I've heard that problem can come from the input shaft bearing.


    Any ideas?? Since my symptoms have stayed the same, it makes me think the problem is with something that was reused, or clutch issue, or something. Im at a loss.
    lwarrior1016 you have any clue? I know you just got done building one
     
  2. lwarrior1016

    lwarrior1016 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    665
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Location:
    South Mississippi
    I don't know right off, but I will do some reading this morning and see what I can come up with. I just started with these t45's so I don't know all there is to know yet. I am definitely curious to see what Zak has to say about the issue though.

    What kind of oil are you using in this thing? Also, when you are engine braking, are you rev matching the gear before you put it in?
     
  3. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    Im using what Zak and the Ford manual recommend, 3 - 3 1/3 quarts of MERCON ATF.
     
  4. lwarrior1016

    lwarrior1016 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    665
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Location:
    South Mississippi
    You said they replaced all the syncros right? What kind of condition were the sliders in? When you say popping out of gear, the first thing that comes to mind is syncros. Since it is only happening in 2nd & 4th, have you checked the shift stops on the shifter (I don't think that's the problem, but I had to ask)?
     
  5. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    Synchro inserts, rings, and springs were replaced. I'm not too familiar with the trans so by synchro inserts does that mean the synchros were replaced or just a part of the synchros? And I'm not sure about the sliders. I'll have to ask. And yeah the shift stops are out of the way. It definitely feels internal
     
  6. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    Talked to Zak this afternoon. He said he's not really sure what's going on and he wants me to drive the car more and let him know exactly when the problems occur and under what scenarios. I found out that he replaced the synchro inserts, rings, and springs, but NOT the synchro assembly itself because he said they looked fine visually. I feel like it has to be the synchros even though they looked fine visually. He wants me just to give him more info after I drive it more. He mentioned the clutch as well but I know it's not the clutch. The clutch has less than 10k miles and these issues were present before the clutch install
     
  7. lwarrior1016

    lwarrior1016 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    665
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Location:
    South Mississippi
    I am not trying to down the man by any mean, so please don't take it that way but i would thing that if the problems were present before the rebuild and are exactly the same after, then it has to be a component that was not replaced and i don't expect to see any improvement just from driving it.
     
  8. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    No I completely agree with you 100%. I think he's not expecting it to improve with time, I think he's just trying to figure out exactly when these issues are occurring so he can narrow down the problems before I ship it back to him. And I'm no expert on T45s, but I know the synchros are problems for these trannys, and if he reused my synchros, just replacing parts of it, I feel like it has to be the culprit
     
  9. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    Just throwing this out there for the more knowledgable than me, but can a bad pilot bearing or clutch affect shifting? I know the pilot bearing has a lot to do with how fast the crank spins vs how fast the input shaft spins so that's why my wheels are turning.

    And I don't know if a bad pilot bearing could be causing my whining or not either. I thought that would come from a bad input shaft bearing but evidently Zak said that was replaced
     
  10. Wichers123

    Wichers123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Location:
    Covington, louisiana
    What shifter? You have a problem that is common between the same motion. If it was forks 1-3 would be acting up? Remember 1-3-5 is is the top of the shift. 2-4 bottom. I doubt the synchro assemble is bad, if that was the issue the 2/4 side of things would be chewed up.
     
  11. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    [MENTION=18292]Wichers123[/MENTION] Before I sent it off for the rebuild, it had a stock shifter, when I put it back in after the rebuild, I put an MGW on it
     
  12. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    Here's a vid for those that want to watch.

    In this vid, I'm coming up to my road and getting ready to turn in. When the video starts, I'm in 4th. I shift to 3rd, let out the clutch, then try to shift back to 4th. As you can tell if you watch closely, when it goes back into 4th, it only goes in like halfway, then it grinds the second I let the clutch out.

    https://vimeo.com/138183597


    Sorry for the video quality. Posted it from my phone
     
  13. Wichers123

    Wichers123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Location:
    Covington, louisiana
    You set the stops correctly in the shifter? It's acting like it half engaging. I know you ink both issues are the same but maybe changing two many parts at once has brought another one to light. If anything put the stock base back in and drive it and see. Most of those shifters don't come pre set, every trans needs to be set individually
     
  14. lwarrior1016

    lwarrior1016 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    665
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Location:
    South Mississippi
    I was also thinking it was a shifter issue initially, but he said it does fine going up through the gears. In that video, it didn't look like he would get close to the shift stops at all.
     
  15. Wichers123

    Wichers123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Location:
    Covington, louisiana
    But it's grinding and popping out. Look again it's not even staying in gear.
     
  16. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    770
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Location:
    Ky
    Alright BMAC! Set the shifter stops all the way back to where the shifter dont touch them. Go drive it and report back.
     
  17. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    [MENTION=14727]96blak54[/MENTION] already have. When the problems get bad, I can barely get it into the gear at all...long before it even gets close to the shifter stops. Its something internal, when im coasting with the clutch in trying to get it into gear, i can feel whatever it is inside the transmission thats keeping it from engaging. It almost feels like the synchro ring gears arent meshing, but I dont know why it would only be 2nd and 4th gear and not 1st or 3rd
     
  18. BMAC96GT

    BMAC96GT Active Member

    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Virginia
    lwarrior1016 Wichers123 yeah when the problems occur, its no where near the shifter stops. And when this happens, it wont engage in the gear, and the instant I let the clutch out, it immediately grinds and spits the gear out into neutral

    *Edit: And yes, when I set the shifter stops, I made sure the the shifter was fully engaged into the gear, put pressure on the shifter into that gear, and backed off on the shifter stop 1 full turn after it had touched. And if you want me to, I can back the shifter stops out completely and give it another go, but the problems are absolutely identical to how it was acting with the stock shifter.
     
  19. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    770
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Location:
    Ky
    Very detailed post! Thank you!
     
  20. lwarrior1016

    lwarrior1016 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    665
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Location:
    South Mississippi
    Ive been talking to some people about your trans issue, it was brought up that you should pull the shifter back off and make sure the roll pin is installed (and in good condition) in the shift shaft.