Engine build/ What's my best way to make more power

g36 monkey

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
14,081
Reaction score
596
Location
Orlando, Fl
I feel like a lot of the stuff here is good, and a lot of it is probably just confusing you.

To answer your questions:
Your block will split at the power levels you are looking for. No if's, and's or but's about it. To counter this problem, you could build a 351 as mentioned above, or get a Dart block to stick with the 302 platform. Both of these have stroker plans if interested. Your heads would work, albeit the 351 might choke up a little because it really likes to suck in some air.

In theory, the kit you purchase could get you there, you would just be picking pieces of the motor off the ground before you get there.

That said, you've been given a number of excellent options here.

Coyote swap - great power, great reliability, great driveability. The cons - requires a bit more back end work to make the two mesh well together (because you are on a pushrod platform) and maybe the price could be considered a con but it's pretty reasonable.

Vortech or other centri blower - easy to find, easy to install, and easy to make 400 horse safely, reliably, all day long. I'm not sure what sort of times you are looking to cut, but you would be surprised what a properly setup 400 horse Mustang can run. Hell, I've witnessed a number of sub 400 foxes get into the 10's, and they weigh just a little less.

Roots blowers - hard to find for the pushrod motors, and sometimes have heat issues following them around. My personal favorite type of blower, but for these motors they tend to need meth. We have some guys here running the 5.0 kenne bell though, OnyxCobra might be able to tell you more on that.

Some things you may want more for the car before you start under the hood:
Subframe connectors, good lower control arms, shocks and struts, ball joint, tie rods, lowering springs, better brakes and better tires.


Not trying to cut your ideas down but are you used to driving anything properly set up with more than 700 horsepower? Some people are, if not, it's best not to just throw yourself into a potential death trap.

Also, thank you for your service.


And as noted previously, don't blow all your in service money on this thing. So many guys do. When you come out, you could have a pretty nice down payment on a house, or at least have some in the bank on a CD or something collecting for you while you are in the service. Most of my buddies say if they had to do it differently, that would be their choice, save a good chunk.
 
OP
OP
S

Slobra Moostang

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Kinda.... Are you building a race car or a street car? Are you wanting to have a car that's quick enough to hold its own on the street against just about everything that you'd run across on a Sunday afternoon? Or are you trying to strip the car down to "bare bones" so you can run a 9 second 1/4 a few times a year?
If it's the first case scenario I think that your horsepower goals are way too high and way too unrealistic, and pseudo fast and the furious esq.
For starters a 700 hp 95 mustang requires some serious money and you're not going to get there w an on3 "kit". Like I stated previously, it takes one heck of a car to handle 600 hp. We're talking everything from top to bottom. A 200k mi mustang GT with all original parts except for the 600 hp motor isn't going to cut the mustard.
I'll end with this, if you run the motor as is without any type of forced induction you'll be quick enough to not get embarrassed by too much on the street as long as the road isn't too long. If you were to add 100 more hp via "small" blower (say you're at 300 now and the "small" blower would put you above 400 whp) You'd be able to run with the best of them as long as your rear suspension and tires are good.
The moral of the story is you don't "need" 700 hp and I don't think that you can afford it.




Don't Sext and Drive.


I was looking to build a street car. I'm used to import platforms, and the 700hp goal was based mainly off of that. My previous car was a 1JZ with a 67mm turbo on all stock internals that made upwards of 500 to the wheel. This my first American car, let alone a v8, so I'm still learning as I go along.
I now realize that the goal I'm looking for is unrealistic given what I have now.
As for your "small blower" comment, what if instead of said small blower, I go with this on3 kit with the 67mm rather than 76mm.
I'm just more comfortable running a turbo than a supercharger because turbos are quite frankly, what I'm used to.
I definitely understand a stock suspension, transmission, brakes, etc. won't be able to handle 700hp reliably, and now I know, neither will my block.
So basically I'm leaving it with one question, is a little north of 400hp reasonable with an on3 kit, and nonetheless reliable? Ignoring all the suspension upgrades and tires etc. I'm talking about the engine and turbo kit alone.


I feel like a lot of the stuff here is good, and a lot of it is probably just confusing you.


To answer your questions:
Your block will split at the power levels you are looking for. No if's, and's or but's about it. To counter this problem, you could build a 351 as mentioned above, or get a Dart block to stick with the 302 platform. Both of these have stroker plans if interested. Your heads would work, albeit the 351 might choke up a little because it really likes to suck in some air.


In theory, the kit you purchase could get you there, you would just be picking pieces of the motor off the ground before you get there.


That said, you've been given a number of excellent options here.


Coyote swap - great power, great reliability, great driveability. The cons - requires a bit more back end work to make the two mesh well together (because you are on a pushrod platform) and maybe the price could be considered a con but it's pretty reasonable.


Vortech or other centri blower - easy to find, easy to install, and easy to make 400 horse safely, reliably, all day long. I'm not sure what sort of times you are looking to cut, but you would be surprised what a properly setup 400 horse Mustang can run. Hell, I've witnessed a number of sub 400 foxes get into the 10's, and they weigh just a little less.


Roots blowers - hard to find for the pushrod motors, and sometimes have heat issues following them around. My personal favorite type of blower, but for these motors they tend to need meth. We have some guys here running the 5.0 kenne bell though, OnyxCobra might be able to tell you more on that.


Some things you may want more for the car before you start under the hood:
Subframe connectors, good lower control arms, shocks and struts, ball joint, tie rods, lowering springs, better brakes and better tires.




Not trying to cut your ideas down but are you used to driving anything properly set up with more than 700 horsepower? Some people are, if not, it's best not to just throw yourself into a potential death trap.
Also, thank you for your service.




And as noted previously, don't blow all your in service money on this thing. So many guys do. When you come out, you could have a pretty nice down payment on a house, or at least have some in the bank on a CD or something collecting for you while you are in the service. Most of my buddies say if they had to do it differently, that would be their choice, save a good chunk.


This definitely helped break down all of my options and explaining them thoroughly so I appreciate that.
So, as you said, "in theory" the kit would be able to get me there, but the block is what is really restricting me.
Say I keep my high compression 10:1, run minimal boost (4-6 lbs) on the 67mm, could I get 400hp reliably, and safely?
As stated above, I would love to eventually go vortech, but given not having any experience with them, having a crap block, and costing more than I'd like to spend, I'd really rather stick with a turbo.
I do have subframe connectors, lowering springs, cobra brakes, and some 285's in the rear. I do realize suspension parts will definitely need some upgrading.
I'm definitely not going to blow all my money on this car, especially since my time to drive it will be limited, lol. About 75% of the bonus is going in a savings account, as well as the majority of my personal income.
Given the recommendations everyone has given me, I think I may go with the on3 kit, but definitely at a conservative 400hp. If the block takes a beating down the road, then I'll go 351.
 

Nuttinbutcrumbs

Active Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
353
Reaction score
0
Location
Between the Red and the Rio
I was looking to build a street car. I'm used to import platforms, and the 700hp goal was based mainly off of that. My previous car was a 1JZ with a 67mm turbo on all stock internals that made upwards of 500 to the wheel. This my first American car, let alone a v8, so I'm still learning as I go along.
I now realize that the goal I'm looking for is unrealistic given what I have now.
As for your "small blower" comment, what if instead of said small blower, I go with this on3 kit with the 67mm rather than 76mm.
I'm just more comfortable running a turbo than a supercharger because turbos are quite frankly, what I'm used to.
I definitely understand a stock suspension, transmission, brakes, etc. won't be able to handle 700hp reliably, and now I know, neither will my block.
So basically I'm leaving it with one question, is a little north of 400hp reasonable with an on3 kit, and nonetheless reliable? Ignoring all the suspension upgrades and tires etc. I'm talking about the engine and turbo kit alone.





This definitely helped break down all of my options and explaining them thoroughly so I appreciate that.
So, as you said, "in theory" the kit would be able to get me there, but the block is what is really restricting me.
Say I keep my high compression 10:1, run minimal boost (4-6 lbs) on the 67mm, could I get 400hp reliably, and safely?
As stated above, I would love to eventually go vortech, but given not having any experience with them, having a crap block, and costing more than I'd like to spend, I'd really rather stick with a turbo.
I do have subframe connectors, lowering springs, cobra brakes, and some 285's in the rear. I do realize suspension parts will definitely need some upgrading.
I'm definitely not going to blow all my money on this car, especially since my time to drive it will be limited, lol. About 75% of the bonus is going in a savings account, as well as the majority of my personal income.
Given the recommendations everyone has given me, I think I may go with the on3 kit, but definitely at a conservative 400hp. If the block takes a beating down the road, then I'll go 351.

What's a 1jz? Make/model? As for the on3 kit, I've never used one but I remember back when they came out they "kits" weren't exactly "full kits". There was still some stuff that needed to be sourced and or fabbed. As far as being safe and reliable at 400 hp it should be as long as the tune is good. You said the guy sold it because he said it wouldn't hold enough power. Sounds like it might have taken quite a beating by the guy. Does it run now? How well is it running? Any leaks?
Have you looked at the motor or have had someone else look at it to make sure it's in good enough shape to where it's capable of handling 100-200 extra hp with out crapping the bed?
Don't to add larger pump, injectors, and tune to the list. Not sure if there's a dyno in your area or if that's even the tuning route you want to go but a first time dyno will run between $500-700 because you have to buy the chip as well as pay for the tuning and the amount of time your car is on the dyno.
Just curious, how'd you have the import tuned? I'm assuming dyno since you know how much whp i was making?
Don't Sext and Drive.
 
OP
OP
S

Slobra Moostang

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
What's a 1jz? Make/model? As for the on3 kit, I've never used one but I remember back when they came out they "kits" weren't exactly "full kits". There was still some stuff that needed to be sourced and or fabbed. As far as being safe and reliable at 400 hp it should be as long as the tune is good. You said the guy sold it because he said it wouldn't hold enough power. Sounds like it might have taken quite a beating by the guy. Does it run now? How well is it running? Any leaks?
Have you looked at the motor or have had someone else look at it to make sure it's in good enough shape to where it's capable of handling 100-200 extra hp with out crapping the bed?
Don't to add larger pump, injectors, and tune to the list. Not sure if there's a dyno in your area or if that's even the tuning route you want to go but a first time dyno will run between $500-700 because you have to buy the chip as well as pay for the tuning and the amount of time your car is on the dyno.
Just curious, how'd you have the import tuned? I'm assuming dyno since you know how much whp i was making?
Don't Sext and Drive.
A 1JZ is an inline 6 made by Toyota. The car was a 1987 Supra. the 1JZ is like the 2JZ, not sure if you're familiar with that either, but it has an extremely good reputation as one of the best motors around.
The motor runs extremely well as is right now. I could drive 100 miles daily and only be worried about the hole in my pocket it would put because of gas money. I haven't really gotten to beat on it because the previous owner stated it's still in the break-in period. The only leak that seems to be there is a small power steering leak, which speaking of, I need to check out.
The fuel pump, injectors, and a MAF kit calibrated to the specific pump and injectors is included in the on3 kit with the options that I selected.
As of now, I have a moates quarterhorse chip on the car, I'm not sure if that will work or not?
But yes, I have a local dyno, and tuner, who seems to know his way around fords, and mustangs in general, so I'm sure he'll be of great help.
 

g36 monkey

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
14,081
Reaction score
596
Location
Orlando, Fl
Quarterhorse is a great setup.

Per the Poopra, I am very familiar with the 1j and 2j motors. Pics???

I understand wanting to work with something you are used to, there are a lot of guys on here who are big turbo fanatics, who will definitely vouch for that direction. I say go with whatever you like best.

Vortech/centri blowers in general are very simple. Many people tend to shy away from turbo because it has the tendency to be a bit more finicky to get all the little kinks worked out, but every good build has that sort of stage.

I think you could easily get to 400 on the 67mm, I might even consider going a bit smaller but I like quick spooling (personally) with less top end.

Albeit, I have put a 90mm (off a semi) on a 383 mustang lol.

Good to hear you're not going nuts financially. It will help a lot in the long run!
 

Nuttinbutcrumbs

Active Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
353
Reaction score
0
Location
Between the Red and the Rio
Maf and injector idea- shop around the different mustang vendors cjponypsrts.com americanmuscle.com lmr.com ect and summit racing even. You might can find them a little cheaper and a lot of them have forum discounts. AmericanMuscle has their 60# injectors on sale for $354 and I think that they might have discount for this forum. http://www.americanmuscle.com/mustang-ev6-60-injectors.html
Also since you're getting a tune you can use the maf that you have now, unless for some reason it won't physically fit with the kit. The "calibrating" will be taken care of by the tune. $90 isn't a bad price for the fuel pump but I'd ask em what brand it is. Did you self-tune your Supra? If so then I assume the learning curve should be a piece of cake for you.
What is your rear end gear again?
*Edit* 3.73's I see. Remember these aren't high revving beasts. Your max power will probably be somewhere around 6k rpms or a tad higher and with 3.73's it's gonna get to redline pretty quick. You'll probably be able to get a little over 100 mph in 4th but 5th will still have plenty of pulling power. What intake manifold are you using?


Don't Sext and Drive.
 
OP
OP
S

Slobra Moostang

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Well knowing that this chip is a decent one is music to my ears, lol.
I was starting to worry about standalone ecu's and the cost of that but apparently these ecu chips go a long way.
Here's a picture of the 1J that I miss oh so much
aEqQJyd.jpg

I want to go smaller than a 67 as well because of the turbo lag. The 1J didn't start spooling until the 3.5k RPM range, and if I'm redlining at 5.5 I want to try a get a quick spooling one.
Sadly, the kit comes with a 70mm, and I'm paying more for the 67mm ceramic ball bearing, in hopes it will spool quicker.

Definitely going to shop around and see what I can find injector wise. I'll see what brand fuel pump is included with the kit, and if it comes to it, I'll spend the extra 30-40 dollars for a good name brand one. Injector wise I may opt for the 47#'s considering my hp goal is a lot lower now.
I didn't self tune the Supra so no learning curve for me lol.
I'm not sure what intake manifold I'm using to be quite honest, I've looked up and down google, stock ones, aftermarket, etc. It looks to be a stock one however.
ItDXTYR.jpg
 

g36 monkey

Post Whore
SN95 Supporter
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
14,081
Reaction score
596
Location
Orlando, Fl
At the very least, upgrade to a gt40, you can get them cheap and it should breathe a bit better which ultimately means less stress on the motor. Your valve train could probably spin a bit higher, but you may not need to. It all depends on where power is made.

I think you're on a pretty good track now
 

Nuttinbutcrumbs

Active Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
353
Reaction score
0
Location
Between the Red and the Rio
Well knowing that this chip is a decent one is music to my ears, lol.
I was starting to worry about standalone ecu's and the cost of that but apparently these ecu chips go a long way.
Here's a picture of the 1J that I miss oh so much
aEqQJyd.jpg

I want to go smaller than a 67 as well because of the turbo lag. The 1J didn't start spooling until the 3.5k RPM range, and if I'm redlining at 5.5 I want to try a get a quick spooling one.
Sadly, the kit comes with a 70mm, and I'm paying more for the 67mm ceramic ball bearing, in hopes it will spool quicker.

Definitely going to shop around and see what I can find injector wise. I'll see what brand fuel pump is included with the kit, and if it comes to it, I'll spend the extra 30-40 dollars for a good name brand one. Injector wise I may opt for the 47#'s considering my hp goal is a lot lower now.
I didn't self tune the Supra so no learning curve for me lol.
I'm not sure what intake manifold I'm using to be quite honest, I've looked up and down google, stock ones, aftermarket, etc. It looks to be a stock one however.
ItDXTYR.jpg
Curious- If the supra wasn't dynoed how'd you gather it made 700 hp, by your 1/4 mi trap speed? That looks like a Ford Explorer intake aka gt40.
57d60564d898ce32553bd188f09cc84d.jpg



Don't Sext and Drive.
 

95opal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,968
Reaction score
1,468
Keep your current motor throw 10lbs at it and be happy. You start venturing into the 6-700hp area its going to cost ya, mod motor coyote or pushrod.
 
OP
OP
S

Slobra Moostang

New Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Ahh, I think you're misunderstanding. The supra made 500 and some. I didn't tune it, I paid someone else to tune it, so it did see some dyno time.
 

Nuttinbutcrumbs

Active Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
353
Reaction score
0
Location
Between the Red and the Rio
Ahh, I think you're misunderstanding. The supra made 500 and some. I didn't tune it, I paid someone else to tune it, so it did see some dyno time.

As far as using 42# injectors, talk to a tuner and see what they think. I'm making 330 whp and the tuner wanted 42's. 42's might not be big enough for 400+ rwp but I'm not sure.


Don't Sext and Drive.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
77,435
Messages
1,502,106
Members
14,917
Latest member
virocanah

Members online

No members online now.
Top