Exhaust Question

turion94 · Jul 12, 2016

I removed my Super 44 series Flowmasters and went BBK high flow catted x pipe and strait pipes out the back. It sounds like this exhaust clip.

[video]https://youtu.be/Vcb13hTwzrk[/video]

It sounds good but it feels like I lost bottom end power but gained top end power. I just have a stock 114k mile 5.0l engine no cam or anything. Also will it harm the engine with the loss of back pressure? I'm having a hard time restraining myself from driving around without hard accelerations. With the Flowmasters the car felt like it didn't like to rev higher then 3k rpm. Now it just revs up so much smoother and easier but I'm driving it harder because of it now.

Frank.JD.Perez · Jul 12, 2016

Go do some donuts and burnouts then come back and tell us how she feels. Lol. So what exactly did you do? Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you did

1 remove Flowmaster mufflers
2 replaced with straight through piping
3 took off stock h pipe
4 put on x pipe?

Cause if so yea it's going to sound and feel way different. Your car is probably breathing a bit better now and you probably gave yourself a boost in hp and tq

Sounds nice too. Way too loud for me hahah

turion94 · Jul 12, 2016

Frank.JD.Perez said:
Go do some donuts and burnouts then come back and tell us how she feels. Lol. So what exactly did you do? Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you did

1 remove Flowmaster mufflers
2 replaced with straight through piping
3 took off stock h pipe
4 put on x pipe?

Cause if so yea it's going to sound and feel way different. Your car is probably breathing a bit better now and you probably gave yourself a boost in hp and tq

Sounds nice too. Way too loud for me hahah

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I already had a BBK high flow catted xpipe with Flowmaster mufflers. I just removed the mufflers so all it has is cats and strait pipe from cats all the way out the back.

07GtS197 · Jul 12, 2016

I ditched super 44s and og 40s on my 07 and 02 gt respectively for pypes m80s and I definitly felt the difference. No matter what anyone says flowmasters are some of the worst flowing mufflers out there. I love the sound but I dont think I will run another set on any of my cars. The good news is if you post them on ebay youll get many offers in 1 day lol. I put my last set on ebay, one had a huge dent and one pipe crushed, and I got like 8 offers after 1 night lol.

turion94 · Jul 12, 2016

Video of me revving to about 5k

https://youtu.be/8-i7K7l3-4A

Video of me driving maybe had throttle half way down at most.

https://youtu.be/skbIdFO_mps

mcglsr2 · Jul 13, 2016

Why do you think you lost bottom end power but gained top end power? Just because it feels different?

I guess I'm a little confused here - I can't imagine that mufflers would make *that* much of a difference. Especially with stock headers. Honestly, I suspect the car sounds different so you think it feels different. I don't mean this in a bad way. You might have gained a couple extra ponies. But nothing significant, and certainly under 10 - unless the flowmasters are *really really* restrictive. And don't sweat the back pressure. Almost always back pressure is a Bag Thing. Removing it is a Good Thing. And with a N/A engine, you'll care more about scavenging - which you won't be doing with stock headers.

On your setup, mufflers (or lack thereof) will be mostly for the sound. And if you love it, then that's all that matters

white95 · Jul 13, 2016

All mufflers, on normal engines, will be within +/- 5 or so hp of each other.. You won't notice the benefit of a straight through muffler VS a chambered muffler until you make a substantial amount of power or install a turbo..

botom line? Bolt on what ever sounds the best to you and enjoy

white95 · Jul 13, 2016

Lol I read your post mcglsr2 after I wrote mine out but it seems we think alike on the subject!

turion94 · Jul 13, 2016

Yea I guess it's because the car feels different now. With the 44s I would drive between 1500 to 2500 rpms between shifts because you just get a feel for where your engine likes to run at while driving and it didn't seem like it liked to go higher than that comfortably. Now It's like it dosnt come alive until about 3k rpm and pulls hard up to 5k no problem smooth. I have to admit it's the first time I've ever really enjoyed driving my car. The only bad thing about it is with no mufflers you get really loud but lose a little tone that you would get from Flowmaster or magnaflow. I think the BBK catted X pipe is the reason it dosnt sound like crap. The X pipe gives it a little rasp like LM1 resonators would. The only thing now is I wish my car would accelerate faster. I got my ass kicked by a boosted wrx the other day but he gave me the thumbs up afterwards out of respect. NEED MORE POWER!!!

mcglsr2 · Jul 13, 2016

white95 said:
Lol I read your post mcglsr2 after I wrote mine out but it seems we think alike on the subject!

Lol, it would appear so

Good rule of thumb when it comes to exhaust: on a turbo car, exhaust is first. Start closest to the turbo and work your way back. On a N/A car, ignore exhaust and work on intake first (meaning air filter to heads). Once the intake is uncorked, then work on the exhaust, starting at the engine and working your way back.

turion94 · Jul 13, 2016

Been doing some research on a budget build for the small block 302 and it looks like GT40 heads and intake are the way to go. Can get the intake upper and lower in good condition on eBay for less than $500. The heads rebuilt you can get for around the same price too. Those paired together with a nice cam and bigger injectors can get you 300hp I assume for reasonable price. From what I understand the magic number is 300. Anything over that you pretty much have to reinforce every part of the vehicle, trans, rear, frame, and you would prob have to go boost to keep the price reasonable. From what I understand 500 hp is the most you can safely get out of a the 302 and that's pushing it. That's why 300 is the number without spending a fortune.

*** since we're talking about boost and heads. Sorry if I'm getting off topic. It's car related chat though.

Frank.JD.Perez · Jul 13, 2016

Will said:
Yea I guess it's because the car feels different now. With the 44s I would drive between 1500 to 2500 rpms between shifts because you just get a feel for where your engine likes to run at while driving and it didn't seem like it liked to go higher than that comfortably. Now It's like it dosnt come alive until about 3k rpm and pulls hard up to 5k no problem smooth. I have to admit it's the first time I've ever really enjoyed driving my car. The only bad thing about it is with no mufflers you get really loud but lose a little tone that you would get from Flowmaster or magnaflow. I think the BBK catted X pipe is the reason it dosnt sound like crap. The X pipe gives it a little rasp like LM1 resonators would. The only thing now is I wish my car would accelerate faster. I got my ass kicked by a boosted wrx the other day but he gave me the thumbs up afterwards out of respect. NEED MORE POWER!!!

Dude come on...be realistic. A newer vehicle especially one that's awd? Our cars have no chance against that and neither should they. Apples to oranges my friend. Different tools for a different job. If I wanted to do rally racing or go off reading in a car I'd take a subie or evo any day. If I want to be in an American muscle classic I'll take the Mustang hands down. Give me any car in the world to choose from and I'll still pick the stang because I love them so much but I also realize they're a certain level let's say in the car world

mcglsr2 · Jul 13, 2016

Frank.JD.Perez said:
Dude come on...be realistic. A newer vehicle especially one that's awd? Our cars have no chance against that and neither should they. Apples to oranges my friend. Different tools for a different job. If I wanted to do rally racing or go off reading in a car I'd take a subie or evo any day. If I want to be in an American muscle classic I'll take the Mustang hands down. Give me any car in the world to choose from and I'll still pick the stang because I love them so much but I also realize they're a certain level let's say in the car world

Tell you what, wait until I get my HCI done, and then see what the ol' Llama does against a WRX

You will be surprised what these cars can be capable of given the proper mods. Stock for stock, no contest. Of course. But do some suspension work, get the V8 making some decent power, and I wouldn't be ashamed to put it on a road course

Keep in mind, a WRX is making about 212 HP at the wheels. Not so much, is it? Even with an AccessPort and benefit of the doubt, they *might* be putting ~250 to the ground. The Mustang can put that to the ground without too much trouble, and can put quite a bit more with a good setup. Car weights are about the same, maybe slightly in the favor of the Mustang. The WRX has AWD, sure, but that means 1) the person driving it would actually have to know how to launch it or 2) you are at a roll on the highway already, in which case the AWD does nothing but eat up crank HP.

If on a road course, the WRX has the immediate advantage due to AWD and better suspension geometry. The Mustang, though, with a good suspension set up, could very well hang with the WRX. And possibly upset it if the Mustang driver is good and WRX driver is not as good.

I've said it before here on this site: we shouldn't be so quick to discount the Mustang. Yup, in stock form, it is a pig. Piggy pig pig. And will get owned by a current turbo Hyundai sedan. But do some work to it, put some money in it, and it can certainly hang with today's cars

Nighttrain · Jul 13, 2016

Go to your local junk yard and pull said parts off of a explorer, much cheaper. And cam that thing, better flowing heads and intake need a cam to open the valves more. You can throw parts at a car all day long but if they dont complement each other, your fighting yourself. Need bigger throttle body and cai too.

mcglsr2 · Jul 13, 2016

Will said:
Been doing some research on a budget build for the small block 302 and it looks like GT40 heads and intake are the way to go. Can get the intake upper and lower in good condition on eBay for less than $500. The heads rebuilt you can get for around the same price too. Those paired together with a nice cam and bigger injectors can get you 300hp I assume for reasonable price. From what I understand the magic number is 300. Anything over that you pretty much have to reinforce every part of the vehicle, trans, rear, frame, and you would prob have to go boost to keep the price reasonable. From what I understand 500 hp is the most you can safely get out of a the 302 and that's pushing it. That's why 300 is the number without spending a fortune.

*** since we're talking about boost and heads. Sorry if I'm getting off topic. It's car related chat though.

No worries

And the cost will be all about the same: good H/C/I, FI via turbo, FI via supercharger will all run in the same ball park. Maybe a couple hundred each way separates the 3, but to do any of them in a way that is reliable will cost roughly the same. Complexity, however, is a different matter. Turbo is most complex, with H/C/I because you have to swap heads and a cam, and then supercharger being the most straightforward.

There's also what you are talking about, sort of a mini H/C/I. Much more budget friendly, will get you to about 290 to 300 HP (about 250 to the wheels) and will be reliable. For power beyond 300 hp, you are looking at FI or a really good H/C/I (AFR's, Trickflow intake or equivalent, really good cam, good exhaust, etc.) And even with FI, on a stock motor, you might not get too much past 300 HP unless you crank up the boost (and perform supporting mods).

Frank.JD.Perez · Jul 13, 2016

mcglsr2 said:
Tell you what, wait until I get my HCI done, and then see what the ol' Llama does against a WRX You will be surprised what these cars can be capable of given the proper mods. Stock for stock, no contest. Of course. But do some suspension work, get the V8 making some decent power, and I wouldn't be ashamed to put it on a road course Keep in mind, a WRX is making about 212 HP at the wheels. Not so much, is it? Even with an AccessPort and benefit of the doubt, they *might* be putting ~250 to the ground. The Mustang can put that to the ground without too much trouble, and can put quite a bit more with a good setup. Car weights are about the same, maybe slightly in the favor of the Mustang. The WRX has AWD, sure, but that means 1) the person driving it would actually have to know how to launch it or 2) you are at a roll on the highway already, in which case the AWD does nothing but eat up crank HP.

If on a road course, the WRX has the immediate advantage due to AWD and better suspension geometry. The Mustang, though, with a good suspension set up, could very well hang with the WRX. And possibly upset it if the Mustang driver is good and WRX driver is not as good.

I've said it before here on this site: we shouldn't be so quick to discount the Mustang. Yup, in stock form, it is a pig. Piggy pig pig. And will get owned by a current turbo Hyundai sedan. But do some work to it, put some money in it, and it can certainly hang with today's cars

Without a doubt. But I'm just talking mainly stock/stock. When you start modding then things get interesting and fun. When I had my track day some months back the guy I was running with had a brand new wrx and I did better than most the people there but granted I've focused my upgrades around handling so there's that hahah

Also for my build I want to put down 320/350 to the wheels with similar torque numbers but now we're getting carried away hahah. We're thread jacking. BUT we should continue these topic of conversation in the OPs build thread. So [MENTION=18482]Will[/MENTION] start a build thread if you haven't already

turion94 · Jul 13, 2016

The mustang is notoriously light in the back. I would assume that the wrx would have a better weight distribution for cornering being a sedan. I could be wrong though so this is just my opinion. As far as my Mustang is concerned I've been torn on what direction to take it. I'm kind of a nostalgia type person and appreciate the way things were at a different era. For example, Mel Gibsons Leathal Weapon 2 was on the other day and I noticed the station wagon they were driving was brand new at the time. (1989 Oldsmobile Station Wagon) Out of curiosity I searched craigslist in my area and there were none. Searched online for one and found a mint example and the owner wanted $10k for it. To my surprise. Seems to me the 80s era vehicles are starting to take off in value for clean examples. Knowing I have the 5.0l in the sn95 body style which they only made for two years makes me want to stay mostly original. But maybe a small budget friendly HCI upgrade, nice set of 1.5" drop springs with the original 7x8 factory tribars nice set of 255 tires all around, headers, catless h pipe with chambered mufflers and get a set of new stock style stainless tailpipes, drive it, maintain it, keep it clean and enjoy it. And maybe one day it will be a rarity and maybe when that day comes I'll still own it..

the5.ohh · Jul 13, 2016

Just to throw this out there.. my HCI UNTUNED 5.0 with a blown 3rd gear walked a Grand cherokee SRT8 and a turbo'd 350z.

mcglsr2 · Jul 13, 2016

Will said:
The mustang is notoriously light in the back. I would assume that the wrx would have a better weight distribution for cornering being a sedan.

Actually the weight distribution between the Mustang and WRX are just about identical, maybe within 1% of each other. Both cars are in the range of 58/42. The real advantage the WRX has regarding corners is the independent suspension at all 4 corners, better wheel rates (due to the stock strut/spring configuration over the Mustang) and AWD.