fender hash marks on mustangs
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hotmustang95
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Oldie being brought back from the dead I see. I obviously didn't get the hashmark memo.
So I kind of disagree with you a little on some of your statements. Also, just pointing out for correctness, the SN95 does not have a MacPherson strut front setup - if it did, it would probably handle a little better than it does in stock form. MacPherson struts are a combination of spring and strut together - kind of like a coilover (in fact, they essentially are coilovers with no adjustment capability). The SN95 is worse in that the springs are completely separate from the struts.
Anyway, what I disagree with is the statement that the SN95 are terrible handling cars. I feel like that's one of those things that everyone says because it sounds like it's right, so everyone just sort of believes it. Now, I am not saying that a stock Mustang can hang with an M3 or S2000 or anything like that, but I *am* saying that they handle better than you think. Better than the fox platform. And "50% of the mods" is a bit of an over-statement. In fact, take care of the front suspension (coilovers) and you will be better off almost right away. Everything else after that is bonus, and/or to handle all the additional power that people like to get out of the engine.
I understand you are just talking, so I'm not trying to snipe at you or anything. Just making conversation. And here's how I'm going to back up the things I'm saying so peeps don't just think I am a fanboi. Bear with me on this explanation, I'll make it as quick as I can for those that don't like to read. NASA (the racing group, not space program) works very, very hard in classing cars for competition to make things fair. Thus, I believe that their classing is a good yardstick by which to measure cars against each other. Not perfect, but still a very good rule-of-thumb. For this example, we'll use their H through B classing. What this means, is that a car's base class dictates how fast it is. The faster the car, the higher initial base class. So, slow cars will start down near H, and fast cars will start around B. They use points to account for mods, and you are allowed only a certain number of points before your car moves up a class. In other words, if you start down around H, and mod the ever living shit out of your car, you will end up in a higher class, say D - and thus compete against those faster cars. Pretty simple and straightforward.
As an example, an STI starts off in the B class, because they tend to be pretty quick on tracks, have AWD, etc. etc. Let's look at our SN95 Mustang and those cars you mentioned.
A quick note on stars (*). There's meaning behind them, but simply put for now, if a car has a star on it's class, it means it's a little faster than the base class. Two stars means a little faster still. So, within a class, from slowest to faster, it would go: B < B* < B**. So a car with B** is faster than a car with B, but they are both still in the same class. B is still faster than C**. So okay.
94-98 SN95 GT (stock): base class is E* - sure, not the best. But certainly not the worst. How about those Civic's? Even an Si. Civic Si (stock), pre-2013: F**. So, in other words, a stock 95 Mustang GT is one class plus an additional star faster than a stock Honda Civic Si. Not the circles you were describing. Perhaps in an autocross, they are a little closer because they aren't on the track as long, but given equal drivers, I would expect a stock 95 GT to get a better time than a stock Civic Si.
The SE-R? We'll even do the "performance" version v-spec with the LSD: F** - same as the Civic. Now, newer Civic Si's, 2013 and on, they are classed at E** - they are classed the same as the old 95, but a bit faster stock for stock. That car is also 19 years newer - not too shabby for the Mustang. Oh, the 87 to 93 Fox Mustang? It's E, slower (by just a bit) than the SN95.
So if I line those cars up, all stock, from slowest to fastest, it's Civic Si (pre-2013) <= SE-R v-spec < 87-93 Fox < 94-98 Mustang GT < Civic Si 2013+ Which illustrates my point - these Mustangs are really not as bad as people might think.
Lastly, I would also like to point out that there is nothing at all wrong with solid rear axles - many a racecar have solid rear axles and go fast as shit. Also, the "bad" weight distro you mentioned that the Mustang has? The Civic Si is worse, it's like 61/39. The SE-R? It's like 63/37. In fact, *most* cars, especially FF's have much more weight in the front. There's only a few (like the S2000 and other specifically targeted sports/performance cars like Porsche's and shit) that are close to (or at) the ideal 50/50. The Mustang, at 57/43 is actually not bad at all if you think about it - only 7% off from the ideal 50/50.
Anyway, lots of words. Sorry everyone. As for the stripes, it's whatevs. If one wants to rock them, go for it. If not, go for it. I think they can look kind of cool. Having said that, I don't have them on my car. So, either way
Edit: the real difference in performance between all these cars is of course the driver. The car can only do so much. Up to a point, of course. At certain levels, the car is so good even a bad driver can still do well. A terrible driver in the Mustang will be slower than a good driver in the older Civic. Hell, an old Mustang can dust a BMW 335i with the turbos if the BMW driver sucks. If you want to go faster, the #1 mod to work on first is the driver mod. Then start in on car mods.
First important mod in any car, fix the weak link between the seat and the steering wheel!!!
Or in the case of the bench racer, the weak link between the keyboard and the chair!!!
This message courtesy of crapatalk!
Or in the case of the bench racer, the weak link between the keyboard and the chair!!!
This message courtesy of crapatalk!
True dat @mcgslr2 .
Kyle has been running his 00 GT in TTD, 1 class up from a stock 00 GT. And he's been very competitive versus BMW, Hondas, Subaru, other TTD cars. Key to remember is that tires do a lot. Good sticky tires, decent brake pads, shocks/struts, and sway bars play a huge role. The chassis is not as bad as you think, specially versus a Fox. It takes a certain driving style to run one of these because it will always fight you, but that's part of the fun. My E30 BMW was a point and shoot kind of car, the 94 GT you wrestle with it.
None the less, these cars don't handle 'bad'. Anyone that says that has never run it on a course, and if they have they have some learning to do.
Kyle has been running his 00 GT in TTD, 1 class up from a stock 00 GT. And he's been very competitive versus BMW, Hondas, Subaru, other TTD cars. Key to remember is that tires do a lot. Good sticky tires, decent brake pads, shocks/struts, and sway bars play a huge role. The chassis is not as bad as you think, specially versus a Fox. It takes a certain driving style to run one of these because it will always fight you, but that's part of the fun. My E30 BMW was a point and shoot kind of car, the 94 GT you wrestle with it.
None the less, these cars don't handle 'bad'. Anyone that says that has never run it on a course, and if they have they have some learning to do.
