Fireproof interior and weight reduction, plexi windows

[NCMystic]

So . . . how far is too far? that's a common question for people like us, crossing that line is a dodgy grey area with no defined edge often times

that leads me to where i am now, with a fcted up interior and a C head cylinder build and the blower out the window

i find myself missing my built fox coupe and my ex's '67 coupe. they were both rough around the edge street cars that had no shame in their concours car show shortcomings.

so what do i really want out of the mystic, i ask myself. the paint and wheels are done, the motor is going to be as strong as it will be for some time after the new heads go on.

i am reminded of the gt350, and it's fireproof interior with the bare floor pans and plexiglass windows with the straps to pull them up. a hoop roll bar and a gauge pod on the dash. i think this is what i want for my cobra, a daily driver that is close to a racecar as one might come and still enjoy on the street while recalling the feel of the carbed small blocks and drum brakes.

the car already has lt headers, o/r H and single chamber flows so i think the sound is right for the experience. a 4.56 gear will make of for the low end and give the car a proper muscle car feedback when driving.

the interior, here's where i'd love some feedback. i'd like to either make or buy some plexi glass windows.
i'd like to use the strap and pop some snaps into the door panels like in the gt350's. should i just leave the window switch holes in the door cup empty or what? i would swap out for some roll up cups without the cutouts by i painted mine mystic so i'll be using them

the carpet will go, and be running bare floor pans. is there any wiring i will need to move? manual seats.
and should i clear coat over the paint so it doesn't wear from use/driving? i want to keep the factory primer nice and visible.

is there any spray fire retardant i can use on my corbeau seats and the headliner? headliner is actually mint, should i take it out as part of the theme though

also debating ditching the a/c as it is broken anyway. i got a nice march underdrive pulley for the power steering with the set i got so i will keep power steering for now i think. .

i am going to keep my alpine cd player, road trips will need that although i know it doesn't fit the the theme i am going to replace the speakers with lightweight units and ditch the amps

what sort of roll bar should i get? and what else did the gt350 have as part of it's fireproof interior?

if the principles of the gt350 were applied to the cobra in 1996 what else may have been done?

hope this makes sense and you guys get where i am coming from, looking forward to the feedback.

thank you

 

[NCMystic]

aside from the above there is of course the "master" weight reduction list i will be referring to

 

[Burninrock24]

I wouldn't run Plexi on a DD. I have a plexi windshield in my track car and it's a TON of work to get it clear, it scratches to sh!t and the sun glares off of it. I'll try to find a screenshot of my go pro video to show you what I'm talking about. It's almost to the point where I want to run a mesh windscreen instead of it.

Heres an example. Notice how bad the windshield glares. And it's not just the quality of the camera, you can compare it to the open window on the right.

 

[NCMystic]

i'll certainly keep a glass wind screen, just thinking of the side windows maybe? i usually have them down when driving unless it's raining. thought of tinting the plexi 20% like my glass is now

i definitely see what you mean about the wind screen though


our car already have the lightweight bumpers of fabled racecars of yesteryear so that's one thing off the list

 

[Burninrock24]

In all honesty, I wouldn't go to plexi at all. If you want to retain the functionality of your windows, meaning putting them up or down, you'd have to get some curvature built into the windows so that they would fit the motor rack and not jam up. Only way to do that is to get them custom made which would be ridiculously expensive. Only way to do it cheaply, would be to have your windows be attatched by hood pins or clips so you could take them off. But I still wouldn't change them.

I'd work on getting upper and lower subframe connectors and a roll cage first if you're looking for a streetable racer.

 

[NCMystic]

i'm going to try cutting some myself and baking them to shape over top of the glass windows, using a spare set of glass to pull the window brackets off of so the factory track can be utilized with a gt350 nylon strap and snap to pull the window up and hold it in place.

subframes and a roll bar are on the list. what roll bar should i run to use a 4point with the corbeaus?

also i have seen some subframe connectors that were a latter bar brace type deal rather than the bars i usually see. any idea what brand that could have been?

 

[NCMystic]

sourced the gt350r pull straps and hardware in the correct olive green today, about $70

this should be fun. feedback on the other points welcome

 

[Paul]

I'm not clear in the intent of your message. Are you asking us for advice on how to whore out your car and turn it into a gutted tin can racecar? If so, that's pretty easy. Rip everything out and leave a shell.

Lexan windshields suck. I didn't even have one on my old SCCA ITE racecar (which was a whored out, gutted racecar) because you can't see through them. Not to mention they're not legal on the street.


If you want a gutted racecar, sell your nice car, buy a POS, and whore it out. Then you won't have destroyed a nice car in the process.

Paul.

 

[MustangChris]

^ i agree.




but, for fire proofing, flip through Jegs. they have 1000 options. even really clean options where they have smoke-sensors to discharge the system.

i dont know much of anything about the 350, but it seems like you're trying to clone one. You'll have to look at your mystic and decide for yourself if that's what you want to do. Then get a solid mustang book and read up on the 350 and start duplicating it.

As for interior fire-retardant additives, I'd ask an interior shop or a performance shop (TMI might be willing to offer some advice) but i've never heard of such a thing...

 

[NCMystic]

the windshield will stay glass. everything i will be doing can be unbolted and all the stock parts will just sit in a box.

i'm not going to gut the whole thing, just go to plexi side windows with pull straps, ditch the carpet and trunk liner, windshield fluid res, rear seat and ac/heater.

if the 350 comp was a tin can race car, then yes please i'll have a bit of that.

the only thing the cobras really had against them be comparable on the street as far as driving feel is weight. about the same hp as the 350comps.

i live in nc, i could go pick up a shitbox any time i want. i want a very good condition mystic with the formula applied to the 350 in the 60's mustangs that made them so damn cool. done with a little discretion i think this will be a sharp end result.

i've seen the integrated fire systems and although bad ass i am going to look into different spray on options

i've got too many books chris haha. just a matter of making the windows and pulling stuff out now
roll bar advice anyone?

 

[MustangChris]

not sure what the 350 came with... sorry.

 

[Addermk2]

bastardizing a very rare car.... not smart

 

[RichV]

Why even go down this road? You have a cool/rare street car, leave it. Absolutely no point in doing it.

 

[Paul]

It sounds to me like your plan will just ruin a nice car, and end up with a result that nobody (but you probably) will think is very cool. It's your car though, so do whatever you want.

A car is a racecar, or it's not.

 

[NCMystic]

-306 hp street car engine then in the gt350 and 350-360 from the competition model ( blueprint balanced 289 with cobra
high rise intake and heads with ported intake and exhaust valved in the gt350, 4v svt cobra motor with c heads and lower
intake, ported valves and B cams for mine making somewhere between 335-355. dyno will tell the tale.)

-borg warner manual transmission (t10 then 4 speed, t45 now)

-upgraded brakes (then kelsey hayes front discs and metallic line rear drums, now svt cobra factory brakes)

-shock tower braces added to both shelby cars and svt cobras, along with different shocks and sway bars. the 65 comps had traction bars as well, i will add a lakewood to mine as ford did not in '96. front end was lowered and stiffer spring rates in the early R's, ill go with H&R SS springs, cc plates and maybe a bump steer for similar feedback sensation. tubular k and a arms somewhere down the road but nothing of that nature was on the 350's so it not integral to the theme, where as the traction bar is for performance and as part of the heritage theme.

-fiberglass hood and lightweight bumpers from shelby and svt.

-the mustang bodies were delivered to shelby without radios, exhaust, ac, heat, defrost, rear seats or side and rear windows. Upholstery, headliner and sound deadening were removed for competition models.

-mystic has lt headers, o/r and single chambers. they ran glass packs but i think the 10's compliment the note of the 4v better

-wider wheels

-oil coolers added by shelby and svt. shelby also used a larger radiator and front fascia to feed it cool air. svt has the bumper, i think svt used a larger radiator? but will get a fluidyne when money allows although everyone on svt assure me i'd be wasting my money and the stock svt radiator is sufficient. the fog light scoops of the svt bumper are reminiscent of the brake cooling ducts of the gt350

-plexi windows with pull straps were used then saving 25lbs, more now when removing electric motors as well

-a 4 point roll bar was used in the R's

-always a black interior


There was more that went into the 350's and 350R's like hood pins for the thin hoods and larger gas tanks welded together from 2 stock tanks but the above is the most of the recollection i will be applying to the mystic. all said and done the 350R's were 250lbs lighter than the 350's putting the R's right at 2700lbs. seems silly for a mostly-striped "race" car to about the same as a iron head and manifold 289 2+2 and a full interior but the t10 weighed more, bigger wheels, and roll bar pack a lot of those lost lbs back on.

the svt comes in right around 3500 stock if im right. from what i can tell from different part weights and based on the above to do list plus a few small nick nacks i can drop 350-400lbs from that. Thats still a 500ish lbs of ground to cover to have the cobra somewhat comparable to the 350 but it's that closer than it would be. tubular front suspension and lightweight wheels for track events vs my saleens will shed a few pounds down the road. i see some sn street cars claiming 2800-300 but that would take some hacking and i want everything easily reversible to stock condition. pulling the passenger seat for track days saves a few as well. and of course the dog bone.

how much does a roll bar suitable to 4 point harnesses weigh roughly?

and don't worry, no factory items in good condition will be sacrificed to this project. the door panels are shot so i will be restoring them as best as i can and attempting to fix some cracking issues in the dash as well, although i suspect the whole dash is quite brittle and on borrowed time.

thanks for reading and the feedback

 

[NCMystic]

1965 CAR&DRIVER writer Steve Smith described the 1965 Shelby as " a brand new, clapped-out race car"

to each their own. worst case scenario here i have the carpet out for a while to redye since it's sunbleached to hell and back anyway

i think it's going to be a ball, and it's all in line with the heritage of the cobra name so i'm not sure why i'm ruining my car if all the stock stuff can bolt back in. not trying to be defensive just want to elaborate on where i'm coming from.

also there's no blower build in sight so this is the most cost effective way to quicken the ol girl up a bit beyond the head build and rear gear.

 

[NCMystic]

since it's on topic,

a mach up of the gauge set up, not wired in yet. custom el cluster, autometer lunar oil pressure and water temp and aeroforce interceptor gauge in a florida 5.0 dash pod

reminds me a bit of the shelby pods

 

[Paul]

Installing that pod will require drilling holes in your dash.

 

[Burninrock24]

Two things, I'm not going to bust your chops, because I get some wild hairs up my ass too and want to do things that not many people see eye to eye with me on. So I know where you're coming from. But anyways:

How do you plan on baking the lexan? I understand that in theory it sounds easy, but I baked a pair of tail lights in my oven and there wasn't much more room. I have no idea how I would fit any of the windows in there.

Roll cage weight can really vary. What material do you plan on using? If you use chromoly (a high carbon steel) you can build it to NHRA spec and use a thinner pipe to achieve the same strength but save weight over mild steel. But the issue with chromoly is that you have to weld with TIG not MIG, and it can become brittle and weaker in the joints if it's not done correctly, which can be tricky.

But because you are just looking for facts:

The two pipe diameters are equal in strength, but:

1 5/8 .125 wall mild steel is 2.0 lbs per foot
1 5/8 .083 wall chromoly is 1.375lbs per foot.

So very roughly 20ft of steel will be 40 lbs, chromoly will be 27.5 lbs. That's for something very basic like this:

You can use your harness with a cage like this. The middle horizontal bar makes it possible.

And when I mention subframe connectors I do mean uppers too. Since you're gutting your interior, the most time consuming part is already done, and the key to getting these things to handle right is by fixing the factory flaws like chassis flex.

Take some ideas for suspension improvements from Griggs. They are one of the best if not the best suspension tuner for mustangs. http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4310_4347_1060&products_id=535

 

[NCMystic]

thanks for the feedback burninrock, i was thinking of going chromoly to save weight and it doesn't really have to qualify for any events in particular.

as for baking the plexi i am going to use a heat gun and do it in a place that is already warm (north of 115) should work fine depending what brand plexi i get

and yes Paul, the florida 5.0 pod has a bracket hidden underneath that hole must be drilled for but i like the pod and the dash isn't long for this world anyway


damn you Griggs. . and your 13k price tag

burnin, i think the subframes i have seen were made by kenny brown. this pic is of a fox but they looked just about like this. seemed real solid, what do you think? worth the extra weight?

global west also makes matrix type connectors but i don't know anything about them