First HPDE with new suspension went.....

Cochise

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
105
Reaction score
54
So it went rather well last weekend. It's a completely different car. Night and day. A couple of notes off the top off the top of my head...

1. A LOT of over-steer. Now, when I say "A LOT", it's completely relative. The stock suspension on this car was loose and shitty with no adjustments allowed. So it had that classic muscle car plow in the front that suffered from understeer. I also come from 5 different VW's (GTI, GTI, Golf R, GTI, GLI) where over steer doesn't exist. So yea, for me, it was "A LOT". I adjusted well with the proper counter steer when needed and only had 2 "incidents". Video to follow.

2. These cars are heavy, fat, pigs. But.... TONS of fun. My VW's drove better and a couple of them were faster, but none of them were nearly as fun and dynamic. This car, especially with the suspension set up, really requires the driver to put in proper input. It's unforgiving when not respected. I just got the SF connectors and Torque Arm installed this week, so interested to see what impact that has.

3. These pedals are awful for heel-toe shifting. The throttle pedal is just too far forward in relationship to the brake pedal. It makes it impossible to heel-toe. I really need to figure something out. I'm probably losing a second on track if not more due to not being able to downshift in a more seemless manner.

4. I gained a measly 2 seconds. That's right, after a COMPLETE suspension install, stage 2 cams and a tune (net gain of about 40 HP), I saw a measly 2 second improvement. There is a caveat to that though. Two things stick out to me. 1. I was on a staggered set up same time last year, with a 200 TW tire (Nitto 05R's) that felt quite sticky and were 275/315. This time around I was on 275 square set up, using Conti's extreme contact sport with a 340 TW. Which are incredible tires, but I'm thinking the staggered set up plus the gripper tires helped a bit more. Only time will tell.

Any comments, suggestions, insights are welcome. Specs for the track specific items are listed below.

Cobra brakes
Hawk HT-10 front brakes
EBC blue stuff rear brakes
Cobra R wheels with Conti Extreme Contact Sport (274/45R17)
Toe: 0
Caster: +8
Camber: -3.5

Just a couple oopsies from that weekend posed below.


 
Last edited:

07GtS197

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
2,907
Reaction score
1,318
Location
Fort Myers, Fl
Pull up on the gas pedal and you should have a bit of slack. Measure how much slack you have and buy the right size nylon spacer. I’ve used that trick on a few mustangs now.

Hows that brake setup working for you? Any brake fade?
 
OP
OP
C

Cochise

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
105
Reaction score
54
Pull up on the gas pedal and you should have a bit of slack. Measure how much slack you have and buy the right size nylon spacer. I’ve used that trick on a few mustangs now.

Hows that brake setup working for you? Any brake fade?
Thanks for the tip! I’ll take a look at it this week.

No brake fade. I’m running Motul RBF 660. Between that and Castrols RBF I’ve never had a significant issue with brakes that wasn’t fixed with a quick bleeding job.
 

cobrajeff96

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Messages
2,070
Reaction score
2,107
Location
Germany
I think you need a little bit of toe. And with that much static camber, whenever you 'squat' the car when on the brakes, there's not much more camber left on the table and so it doesn't do much for the car's toe angle, either. Toe changes when camber changes, just so you know.
 
OP
OP
C

Cochise

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
105
Reaction score
54
I think you need a little bit of toe. And with that much static camber, whenever you 'squat' the car when on the brakes, there's not much more camber left on the table and so it doesn't do much for the car's toe angle, either. Toe changes when camber changes, just so you know.
I do. You’re right.

I mistakenly had my shop set it to zero. After speaking with Mike at MM he gave me the a detailed explanation. I made the mistake of talking to him after it was aligned. My concern was more camber related, but in giving him my alignment specs he explained the need for a slight toe-in.

I’m going to get it adjusted before I go to Road Atlanta.

Thanks for the heads up though!
 

wmfateam

Active Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
830
Reaction score
169
Location
Gilbert, AZ
1. What is your front suspension set up? What is your rear set up? Or do you have a build thread?
2. Are those 275 tires on a 9" wide wheel?
3. Without knowing any more of your background, I might suggest an autocross in the Mustang to learn to "dance" with it. I started in autocross and really learned to drive with slip angle.

The slower speed tank slapper kinda seemed looked like tracking out/tracking out sooner would have allowed the amount of throttle you were applying to work.

The higher speed corner sounded like as soon as you turned in for the left that it was already coming around. Was that early, mid or late in the session? Were you trying to carry more speed through the right hander? Also if you can find a way to record video so we can see your hands/steering wheel, helps with the Monday morning quarterbacking : )
What app do you use for the gauges? I like that.

What group do you run with? I would always grab fast people who drove mustangs or like cars to ride with me and drive my car to get instant feedback.

I absolutely love those Conti tires in the rain. Had a rain day Saturday and then a sunny day Sunday one weekend and actually went the same speed in both conditions. The harder you push and the better your suspension gets, the sooner you will find the tires being your limiting factor.
 

cobrajeff96

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Messages
2,070
Reaction score
2,107
Location
Germany
I do. You’re right.

I mistakenly had my shop set it to zero. After speaking with Mike at MM he gave me the a detailed explanation. I made the mistake of talking to him after it was aligned. My concern was more camber related, but in giving him my alignment specs he explained the need for a slight toe-in.

I’m going to get it adjusted before I go to Road Atlanta.

Thanks for the heads up though!
Toe in?

Or... out?

I usually go with slight toe out in front and that's also usually what spec'd or programmed alignments call for too. Might want to double check that one.
 
OP
OP
C

Cochise

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
105
Reaction score
54
Toe in?

Or... out?

I usually go with slight toe out in front and that's also usually what spec'd or programmed alignments call for too. Might want to double check that one.
Toe in.

Mike and MM said for open track, you DO NOT want toe out.

Toe-in for Open track/road course

Toe-out for Autocross.
1. What is your front suspension set up? What is your rear set up? Or do you have a build thread?
2. Are those 275 tires on a 9" wide wheel?
3. Without knowing any more of your background, I might suggest an autocross in the Mustang to learn to "dance" with it. I started in autocross and really learned to drive with slip angle.

The slower speed tank slapper kinda seemed looked like tracking out/tracking out sooner would have allowed the amount of throttle you were applying to work.

The higher speed corner sounded like as soon as you turned in for the left that it was already coming around. Was that early, mid or late in the session? Were you trying to carry more speed through the right hander? Also if you can find a way to record video so we can see your hands/steering wheel, helps with the Monday morning quarterbacking : )
What app do you use for the gauges? I like that.

What group do you run with? I would always grab fast people who drove mustangs or like cars to ride with me and drive my car to get instant feedback.

I absolutely love those Conti tires in the rain. Had a rain day Saturday and then a sunny day Sunday one weekend and actually went the same speed in both conditions. The harder you push and the better your suspension gets, the sooner you will find the tires being your limiting factor.

As far as suspension set up, the full catalog from MM. The only thing I don't have is their sway bar.

Coil Overs, control arms, pan hard bar, K member, bump steer kit (measured and adjusted). If there is anything specific you would like to know let me know. Literally every piece of the suspensions has been replaced.

Only thing I didn't have yet were the SF connectors and Torque-Arm. Didn't have time to install those, and they were not a necessity. I just got them installed this week though, so excited to see the difference on track.

Yes, the 275's are on 9" wide wheels.

I would like to and do plan on getting out to auto-cross. It's also where I started and I have several friends and am a member of my local SCCA.

I run intermediate. There aren't any SN95's with my group but a friend of mine has an S2000 and rode along with me. His input helped a lot. This car is a completely different driving experience for me so I am sure there's a bit of a learning curve.

I can try and mount my camera to see more of the cockpit. Might be a tad difficult, but I'm sure I can figure something out. I use the Track Addict app, with a Dual XPS 160 nav and VeePeak obd for vehicle data (gauges, throttle).
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
3,638
Reaction score
999
Location
Pleasanton/Hayward, CA
2 seconds is HUGE...

A mere .20 seconds can be a difference between the highest class and the alowest class, so don't discount the improvement. And these cars are FAR from big heavy pigs. They definitely arent as light as older euro cars and small hot hatches, but theyre definitely not heavy. Just very underpowered
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
3,638
Reaction score
999
Location
Pleasanton/Hayward, CA
Also definitely go toe out. But if youre trying to stick to a specific method/theory/philosophy in regards to aftermarket manufacturers, def stay with it. I for one am one for changing things and finding what works for me. I run -4 camber in front and about .25 toe out
 
OP
OP
C

Cochise

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
105
Reaction score
54
2 seconds is HUGE...

A mere .20 seconds can be a difference between the highest class and the alowest class, so don't discount the improvement. And these cars are FAR from big heavy pigs. They definitely arent as light as older euro cars and small hot hatches, but theyre definitely not heavy. Just very underpowered
Thanks!

And yea, you’re right about the weight. I was being dramatic. My friends have s2000’s, Caymans and BRZ/86’s, and the way they are able to brake and through the car around in comparison has me a little jealous. They’re all also about 300-500 lbs less than I am.

I can almost keep up with them, and I can’t help but think how much more nimble I would by if I shaved 300 lbs.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
3,638
Reaction score
999
Location
Pleasanton/Hayward, CA
Ive dropped about 400+ lbs from my car. I give cars on paper that should be significantly better than a sn95 a significant run for their money. All just depends how far the rabbit hole you want to go and how far in debt
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
77,974
Messages
1,514,805
Members
15,365
Latest member
Ryanjohn

Members online

Top