Fuel pressure and injector question

Dubsport

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I am a VW APR dealer and have had nothing but problems with them and now that Holley owns them it is terrible... no customer service whatsoever!
 

Adam Vinnicombe

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I ha e to agree with you, they used to be ok with there customer service but these days if your not giving them money they don’t want to know you.
I’m either going to go with a SCT X4 cause that’s what the dyno tuners use here in the U.K. but only if my car needs a dyno tune, if not I’ve found a company in the states called SSI who use the diablosport tuner and for $170 give me two free tunes and then look at my data logs and do a remote tune for me, not sure on what way to go?
 

ttocs

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Again your not going to do as well with one of these as you are a dyno. All they send you is tunes that they have on file that are "supposed" to work as they have previously but there are a lot of variables in play to send a tune down to if the work on the car was done right. The guys on tech support are really more for communication err's or if the tuner is actually bad I doubt they have people there that are writing code for your specific needs as you email them. If they do not have something on file already then they do not have anything. Its neat and nice to have the computer to plug in and play with things but if you were to go get a good tune you should not ever need to plug back in later.
 

lwarrior1016

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So I have to ask, are you planning to go any further with mods or boost, or are you wanting to correct the car and enjoy it? If you aren’t needing a dyno tune, then it would only make sense to get a good remote tune done because if you change Tuners right now you’ll have to buy the handheld and pay for a tune. You already have this handheld.

I would give this company a call or email and see if the can make the corrections that you want and ask them if they are going to make adjustments based on your datalogs. If they tune on your logs, it should work out fine.
 

ttocs

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So I have to ask, are you planning to go any further with mods or boost, or are you wanting to correct the car and enjoy it? If you aren’t needing a dyno tune, then it would only make sense to get a good remote tune done because if you change Tuners right now you’ll have to buy the handheld and pay for a tune. You already have this handheld.

I would give this company a call or email and see if the can make the corrections that you want and ask them if they are going to make adjustments based on your datalogs. If they tune on your logs, it should work out fine.
can they do remote tuning with these? When I did it I had to grant him access to my pc through an app that allowed him to make see what was on my pc live and make changes. Or do you mean through datalogging and sending that data back to them?

I assume your swapping the injectors because of the tuner showing the trim was off a little? Was there any problem with how the car ran?
 

Adam Vinnicombe

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Hi all, first of the SSI company will send me a email tune once I've told them what mods and what size injectors I'm running, then they will set me certain tasks to do like cruising at different rooms in different gears and son on and I will have to logg them and email them over to them and they will adjust the tune send it back to me and I will have to do it all over again until lit all good.

The problem I have in the UK is that all the dyno places are telling me I need an SCT programmer for them to tune the new edge.

I'm going to drop down to the 19 LB injectors and see if that will help my running rich condition at idle and WOT.

The mods I have at the moment are as follows
Long tube headers
Full de-cat
Ture daughter exhaust system
CAI
UDP's
Aluminium prop shaft
Lightweight flywheel
75mm throttle body
75mm trick flow plenum
4.10 gears

What I'm after for now is just a working tune that will not run rich and cause me to fail my emissions. In the new future I will be either fitted cams, nitrous or supercharger/turbo. The end goal was to get 400 BHP at the flywheel, I have no idea what flywheel hp I'm at now with the mods I have so if anyone has an idea on that please let me know
Now if I was going to run nitrous I was only going to go for a 50 shot. If I go for supercharger or turbo I was only going to run 5psi. My bottom end is stock and I think that the 400 flywheel BHP may just be to much for the stock bottom end so my new target was to reach 350 flywheel BHP hence the low boost limit and small nitrous shot if I go that way.
I belive the 19 lb injector should be able to support around 300 BHP (crank)
Would anyone like to have a guess what sort of crank BHP I may be running at the moment?
 

ttocs

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just curious have you failed emissions already or is someone telling you that you will fail if its rich?

I can't remember now if we have done this already but I don't think we have, have you pulled a plug to check and see what is happening over all in the motor? I say this because the car is not going to run at perfect afr at all times as some places in the rpm band you want it to run a little rich and other areas slightly leaner and over all the motor is happy with tune. I don't think I have heard you say anything about it running bad, just that the tuner is showing its rich in a certain area and it might not be a bad thing. It would take 5 mins to pull a plug easy to reach and a quick look at that will tell you if your really running rich or lean.
 

Adam Vinnicombe

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just curious have you failed emissions already or is someone telling you that you will fail if its rich?

I can't remember now if we have done this already but I don't think we have, have you pulled a plug to check and see what is happening over all in the motor? I say this because the car is not going to run at perfect afr at all times as some places in the rpm band you want it to run a little rich and other areas slightly leaner and over all the motor is happy with tune. I don't think I have heard you say anything about it running bad, just that the tuner is showing its rich in a certain area and it might not be a bad thing. It would take 5 mins to pull a plug easy to reach and a quick look at that will tell you if your really running rich or lean.


All plugs are black and sooty, my O2 sensors are only lasted 12 months on average before they go bad and when I pull them they are also black and very sooty. Last year the garage spent 16 hours trying to get it through the emissions test using every trick they knew. The analyser was reading rich from idle (it was very rich) all the way up to 5,000 rpm where it started to lean out, NOT go lean but started to lean out from the over rich condition. we swapped in new pink top 21.5 lb/H @ 40psi injectors and they made no difference at all. The year before that I had the exact same problem but on a different engine running the same pink top injectors. My mpg in town are between 8-9 mpg at best. On the motorway I’m getting 180 miles on a tank which is around 11.5 to 12 mpg.
they fitted a wide and to the car and went for a drive and got a reading of 10.7 at WOT, at that point they dropped the car back off at mine and said that I need to solve the over fuelling condition :-(
Aso on a cold start up the exhaust smells of fuel but when the O2 sensors wake up that smell does die off.
I’ve tried using the stock tune, diablosport 87 tune and their 91 tune and although you can definitely tell a difference in performance all of the tunes run rich
 

07GtS197

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Have you tried cleaning your maf? Something is definitely not right. An afr that rich is insane. Either the tuner has no clue what they are doing or there is another issue but that’s just insane. You said it had a blower before you bought it, was the tune updated to reflect that? With an afr that rich I’m surprised you don’t have any other issues like oil contamination.


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Adam Vinnicombe

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Yes the car had a pro charger fitted when it came over from the states and had a tune on it. In the states the tuning garage used the diablosport program to set it up. I no longer have that tune now due to the diablosport tuner crashed on me two years ago and had to be fully reset and loosing all the tunes but diablosport did help me out and resend me the N/A tunes again.
I’ve hardly driven the car due to this over rich condition cause I still believe that’s why the original engine with only 42,000 miles on it broke. Number 8 cylinder wall was very badly damaged and I was told it was damaged this way due to a lack of oil on the cylinder wall
 

lwarrior1016

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can they do remote tuning with these? When I did it I had to grant him access to my pc through an app that allowed him to make see what was on my pc live and make changes. Or do you mean through datalogging and sending that data back to them?

I assume your swapping the injectors because of the tuner showing the trim was off a little? Was there any problem with how the car ran?
I’m pretty sure the Diablo sport doesn’t have live tuning capabilities. You have to load a tune and log it for the changes.
 

07GtS197

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Yes the car had a pro charger fitted when it came over from the states and had a tune on it. In the states the tuning garage used the diablosport program to set it up. I no longer have that tune now due to the diablosport tuner crashed on me two years ago and had to be fully reset and loosing all the tunes but diablosport did help me out and resend me the N/A tunes again.
I’ve hardly driven the car due to this over rich condition cause I still believe that’s why the original engine with only 42,000 miles on it broke. Number 8 cylinder wall was very badly damaged and I was told it was damaged this way due to a lack of oil on the cylinder wall

More reasons to switch to sct with a good remote tuner.


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ttocs

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All plugs are black and sooty, my O2 sensors are only lasted 12 months on average before they go bad and when I pull them they are also black and very sooty. Last year the garage spent 16 hours trying to get it through the emissions test using every trick they knew. The analyser was reading rich from idle (it was very rich) all the way up to 5,000 rpm where it started to lean out, NOT go lean but started to lean out from the over rich condition. we swapped in new pink top 21.5 lb/H @ 40psi injectors and they made no difference at all. The year before that I had the exact same problem but on a different engine running the same pink top injectors. My mpg in town are between 8-9 mpg at best. On the motorway I’m getting 180 miles on a tank which is around 11.5 to 12 mpg.
they fitted a wide and to the car and went for a drive and got a reading of 10.7 at WOT, at that point they dropped the car back off at mine and said that I need to solve the over fuelling condition :-(
Aso on a cold start up the exhaust smells of fuel but when the O2 sensors wake up that smell does die off.
I’ve tried using the stock tune, diablosport 87 tune and their 91 tune and although you can definitely tell a difference in performance all of the tunes run rich
gotcha. Try the smaller injectors I mean 2.5lbs doesn't sound like a lot until you realize its a little more than %10 bigger. Now one of the other tuner guys will need to confirm or deny this but I would have thought the EFI was tuned correctly and running right that it should be able to adjust that much to correct for it? It makes me wonder about your oxygen sensors. What exhaust modifications has been done to it short of long tubes and removing the cats (I just saw that). Are we really running no cats and wondering why we are failing emmissions?
 

Adam Vinnicombe

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Ok good point there I do have a set of cats on order just waiting for them to turn up and that would definitely sort out the emissions but it would not sort out the rich condition.
At idle my LTFTS are both at -3 to -5 and STFTs are -5 on both banks.
This is with a brand new set of Bosch I believe front O2 sensors I got them from RockAuto.
The exhaust is a true dual exhaust system I have no cross over and the piping is 2.5”, I’m running one flow master 40 silencer on each back
 

Adam Vinnicombe

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I’ve lost all faith now with diablosport.
I thought I asked a very simple question but may be I didn’t.
I emailed them this question and got this response.
Hi there the two tunes I currently have on my intune I1000 are for 87 and 91 octane but is that Pon or Mon?
I’m in the U.K. and just want to check I’m using the correct fuel type. In the U.K. we have 95 and 99 Ron.
Many thanks
Adam

Thank you for your question.
Either one of them fuels will work.

WTF answer is that
So can anyone tell me will their 87 and 91 fuel tunes be in Mon or Pon?
Cheers lads
 

07GtS197

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Bosch o2 sensors are known to cause issues with these cars. Ngk or motorcraft are the only ones I recommend. Now with those fuel trims it’s pulling fuel yet it’s still running rich. What’s the part number on the maf? Swap the o2 sensors ASAP.


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ttocs

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Like I said above if your injectors are too big they are 10% too big but it sounds like its running WAY more than 10% rich with the milage and all. If the tuner is only showing a slight bit off then the sensors are either screwed or something about the way they are reading is off. Any chance you know what kind of long tubes are in it? I am wondering if it just has the o2 in the right place or position?
 

ttocs

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well they should not be a problem I was thinking maybe it was a no-name brand. Either the tune is just dumping fuel in no matter what it reads or else the o2's are not reading correctly. I know that for holley efi we have a choice of sensors and we have to select which ones we are using in the parameters of the tune so it could very well be a bad or wrong o2 sensor. I think I would swap them out before you do the injectors myself as again if it was reading right it should adjust the fuel so its corrected.
 

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