Fuel pump runs as soon as the battery cable is hooked up! PLEASE HELP

Discussion in '94-95 5.0 - Specific' started by BigSkySN95, May 30, 2016.

  1. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    The first time it happened I couldn't figure out what was making the noise and by the time I did the CCRM burned up so its obviously an electrical problem. Just finished installing a Vortech V3 Si blower and a Aeromotive 340 Stealth fuel pump and it was running fine before so it must be related to that. Any ideas on what is causing this? My first inclination is to drop the tank again but I don't see how I could have screwed that up, its only 2 wires.
     
  2. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Not sure how you might have done it, but it sounds like you wired the pump up to a +12V BATT source, rather than +12V IGN one. Did you reuse the same wires? Is the relay that runs the fuel pump okay?
     
  3. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    Yes, just cut the wires in the fuel hat and soldered on the leads from the new pump. No, the relay smoked the first time. *EDIT* the relay being the CCRM module.
     
  4. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    There's no chance that the leads you soldered are touching each other, is there? Sounds like either there's a short somewhere, or the Aeromotive pulls way more amps than the stock one - but I don't think that's it as the 340 is supposed to use OEM wiring. I'm guessing a short...
     
  5. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    so you wired in a relay? Can you get a pic or tell us how it was wired?
     
  6. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting, I just ordered a new aeromotive 340lph stealth pump. Please post pictures so we can understand what is wrong.


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  7. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    sounds like you might have a wire on the relay in the wrong place. Not sure how good you are with them but I can help you check it.

    First look at the bottom of the relay and beside each pin you will see a numbe:85, 86, 87, 87a, and 30 - don't ask me why

    Relays are cake if you break them up into their componants of the coil/magnet and the switch If you look on the side of it you will se a small schematic and expanations. First start with the coil/magnet which is marked 85 and 86. This is nothing but an electro magnet that then pulls the switch over to make contact. Now the coil/magnet is non-polarized which means that you CAN'T hook it up backwards, doesn't batter it will still work. One of these terminals will go the former power wire you had running to it. The other wire will go to ground. At this point if you want to make sure that what you have done correctly if you power the wire/turn on the key) you will hear the relay click.

    Ok now I know that was a lot of typing but its really not that hard. Now the switch section can confuse some folks and its probably where you made you mistake. There are three terminals there and you may or may not use them all. I wish I could get a pic of the scematic as it would help a lot but still should not be a problem. If you break down the terminals there is not much to them. One will have to be used as in input meaning you will take voltage from a thicker 12 awg wire that will need to go to your battery, and be fused with in 12" of it. Now I know that is not what you want to hear as it would be easier tapping this/that wire/fusebox but trust me if that thing if really running it can pull 60-70 amps of power with is something that a 14-18 gauge wire just can't handle so it needs to go from the battery, to the relay, then to the tank. There are a few ways to connect it to it but it sounds like you have yours connected to pin 30 and 87a. Those pins are normally connected meaning that with no power on the coil the switch feeds power no when the coil is energized and clicks it will disconnect those two and connect the other two. So if our is connected to 30 and 87a you need to swap the wire in the middle on the 87a to the 87 pin and now it will power with the key on.

    again its important to run that 12 gauge to the battery with a fuse which in my car will be easy with them in the back, but no matter where it is it really needs to be done. That pump has the ability to melt the stock wiring by just doing its regular job. I am no export nor stayed at holiday in express but I try to avoid melting wires.

    This is something I need to do and will be doing shortly with a good write up to help everyone else. I know the average person is afraid of relays and should not be. Once you uderstand them there are all kinds of cool shit that can be done with them. I am in the hospital again but this will probably be my next project just to help people out.
     
  8. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    I found these pictures of AM website, it's possibly that the connections are touching like others mentioned.

    Great breakdown ttocs, is this the correct way to wire it?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


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  9. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I would say it looks ok right up to the point that I would recommend swapping the crimp connectors for solder/heat shrink and again the power wires going all the way to the pump need to be increased for the reason discisss.. Crimps are my go-to for the majority of the connections I make right up till its going to be outside, or that is is mounted in a tank. The gas can splash into the connector and can lead to corrosion issues and if you had that thing really moving and go the wires hot enough, it could catch the tank on fire..

    hopefully in the next week or so I can show what needs to be done.
     
  10. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    Installed it just like your picture only I soldered the connection and shrink wrapped it. My wires were kinda short so I didn't have as much length as you. No additional relay, just plugged into the factory wiring like the old 190 pump.
     
  11. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    I wonder, could I be shorting out through the shrink wrap? My wires are ran right through the middle of the hat due to short length of wire.
     
  12. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    I think my only option is to drop the tank again and see if there is something obvious going on. I'll post up anything I discover.
     
  13. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    I assume you shrink-wrapped each wire individually? So you are asking if you could be shorting through a cut or nick in the shrink wrap? This is, of course, possible if there's a cut or nick and bare wire is exposed.

    To me it sounds like there's a short somewhere. Did a fuse blow when you burned out the relay?
     
  14. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    Yes, each wire individually. So it would need to expose a bare wire or get a hole in the shrink wrap to allow for a short? Would it matter which wire? Positive or negative?

    Nope, no blown fuse. Pulled the CCRM off of my parts car and as soon as I hooked up the battery cable it went right back to running. It never actually stopped the first time until I pulled the battery cable due to smoke pouring out of the CCRM.
     
  15. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    For it to short, in this case, I think it would be the positive wire touching ground (like the tank or something).

    Have you made any other wiring changes? Or is that wire all stock, and the only thing you did was cut the ends to put the Aeromotive unit in?

    And to confirm, the pump runs as soon as you hook up the battery, yes? Does anything else come on, like warning lights on the dash or the radio?
     
  16. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I am pretty sure if you had a short in the wiring IN the gas tank I am pretty sure there would be no doubt what so ever. A shorted connection almost always makes at least a small spark in the 12v area and then after that you would have a blown fuse and not leaving it on all the time. I still think the relay is wired wrong and you are using the 30-87a pins. does it work when you turn the key on or does the relay click and then the fuel pump stops?
     
  17. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    Waiting for pictures of fuel pump assembly out of the tank, this should be interesting.
     
  18. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    Wiring is all stock, just cut the ends and soldered on the Aeromotive wires. Pump runs as soon as the battery is connected, haven't had a chance to check if anything else is running since the first CCRM smoked in less than a minute.
     
  19. BigSkySN95

    BigSkySN95 Member

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    Where is the relay? I thought the only fuel pump relay was inside the CCRM. No time to turn on the key otherwise I'll be out another CCRM.
     
  20. mcglsr2

    mcglsr2 Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter

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    Assuming you did nothing else to the wiring, and the previous fuel pump was working fine, then something awfully strange is going on. You are all of a sudden getting battery voltage on a wire that is supposed to be on in the IGN position. This happens now with your replacement CCRM, yes?

    Have you confirmed that your ignition switch is off? Not in ACC? If yours is like mine, you can turn the key clockwise to ACC, RUN and START (IIRC) and also you can turn it counter-clockwise to ACC. ACC will prime the fuel pump. Some older, worn ignitions might let you put it in the ACC state and still remove the key. Double check that your ignition is the OFF position. If it is, then there might be something wrong with the switch itself. Disconnect the fuel pump so you don't burn anything out. Then see if your radio will come on.

    Lastly, I'm not sure why your CCRM burned out. I assume the pump was pulling too many amps through the relay, but somehow still under the fuse threshold. Not sure. You might have a separate issue not related to the pump. Could be coincidence. Did you do any other wiring? Did you move the CCRM around, modify an wires/connections?

    Edit: I think the fuel pump relay is inside the CCRM. Not sure how you test it other than probing the correct pins on the harness that connects to the CCRM.