Future Build Up Questions...

96gt226410 · Dec 10, 2006

During Febuary/March, I'm going to be looking for a 4.6 SOHC to build. I'm only looking for 300-350 RWHP. I was wondering if the stock bottom end will hold up or should I spend more money for a rotating assembly. I'm not looking for crazy power, I just want a fun daily driver car that will keep up with those damn GM's . And if possible, I'd like to keep it as daily driveable as possible. I don't really want to go F/I. I'm just getting started on the plans for this so I'm not sure of much right now except: P&P PI heads, cams and matching valves and springs (or maybe a set of St. II Patriot Heads), full bolt on's, BBK LT's, O/R H, Flowmaster cat back, 3:73, maybe an ignition system, and a tune. How does that sound? I have parts for a full HD forged syncronizer and seal rebuild kit for my T45. And when I get it all put in, I'm going to be looking for a better suspension setup...

Lightning Struck · Dec 10, 2006

You can get 300rwhp on a stock bottom end, however if your doing heads ( worked ones at that ) why not go ahead and put a little money in a set of pistons/rods while your at it? You can get damn close to 300 with a PI motor and the stock heads, but if you want to have over 300 FOR SURE a set of ported heads will get you there. To be honest I have not heard good things about Patriot Performance :santa_undecided: last I heard people were having trouble with their heads. So you might want to check on that before you buy a set. Also for cams VT has good stuff and a lot of guys use them, but the comp cams are good to. Yes you will need full bolt ons to get what you want, and I say go with the long tubes and a x pipe. Put some 373's or 410's in too for good measure.

96gt226410 · Dec 10, 2006

Do you think it's a better idea to get a set of PI heads and P&P them and using cams and springs instead of buying an aftermarket head?

Lightning Struck · Dec 10, 2006

96gt226410 said:
Do you think it's a better idea to get a set of PI heads and P&P them and using cams and springs instead of buying an aftermarket head?

Well the aftermarket heads that patriot has IS THE FORD PI I ( im pretty sure on that ) its just whatever they do to them is kind of piss poor :dunno:. If I were your I think I would look for a set on ebay first maybe you can get a good deal on a set that has been worked by a shop somewhere. Then if that works out well, you can decide on what cams you want, there is a lot of guys that have the VT stage 1 and some guys with the stage 2's. They work very well and are good for daily driveing. If you want to go over the 300 I would get some cams to go with those heads for sure. You could be in the 320-340 range

96gt226410 · Dec 10, 2006

I'd probably go for the VT Stage II cams with springs and valves. What do they cost?

Lightning Struck · Dec 10, 2006

96gt226410 said:
I'd probably go for the VT Stage II cams with springs and valves. What do they cost?

they did have a sale on them at 550 I think.....check them out http://www.vtengines.com/low_main.htm

Dalamar · Dec 11, 2006

You can run that on the stock bottom end, no problem.

I got roughly 300 on ported Pi's and cams. You'll need a tune.

I've heard bad things about the patriots, so you may want to look at other sources.
I'd go with a PI kit, it will come assembled with the cams, and all the gasket's and stuff you'll need to install them.

96gt226410 · Dec 11, 2006

You got 300 at the wheels? What other mods?

Dalamar · Dec 12, 2006

I got 275 to the wheels, 4800 ft elevation, automatic, shitty mail-in tune.
there's many guys on corral that got up to 325 RWHP.

Ported PI's, Cams, Catback, GOOD tune.
The tune makes a big difference.

I'd also recommend looking at the Crower cam, they kick ass.

96gt226410 · Dec 12, 2006

Does Crower make a good N/A cam? What do they cost? I was hoping for around 300-325 RWHP with a good tune. I wanted to find a NPI block to start with because they're cheaper and after I did the PI swap, I'd have the raise in compression in case I wanted to go for a 125 shot down the road. But that's not in my plans for now. I priced out all of the seals on the engine at work (I'm a tech at Ford so I get 10% over) and to re-seal the entire engine from the valve covers to oil pan and from timing cover to rear main it'll cost me $700 including cost of a new water pump, oil pump, new timing chains, tensioners, followers, and FRPP stage 8 locking headers bolts. The customer price on that would've been $1825. Ford rapes people with their prices. If you guys need an OEM part, shoot me a PM and I'll get you a price. It's ridiculous what they get away with...

Dalamar · Dec 14, 2006

Sounds good. might as well do the seals while your at it.
I hear ya on the ford parts. I have a friend that works there, he hooks me up on parts.

You may want to call VT engines and get some more accurate feedback.
I've heard all good feedback on their parts and people.

http://www.vtengines.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2
http://www.vtengines.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_1_8&products_id=9
Go back to 2V - Valvetrane - Cams --- to see the rest.

They're about 550 bucks.
A good tune, ported heads and the right cam should get you right in to the low 300's

Keep us updated :dancing6:

Gtnut1996 · Dec 15, 2006

patriot had alot of problems with valve guides. they are supposely fixed though. if you are wanting top quality i definetly recommend vt. i am getting there heads and cams when i do my stroked turbo motor next year. :drunk:

jpajkos · Dec 16, 2006

Just port your P.I. Heads. Scott over at VT will tell thats all they really sell. Take a look at my signature. Thats with a mail order tune as well. Ported heads, VT Stage 2 cams, bolt on's and a really good dyno tune will get you your 300-325 horsepower. If I was to get some nice stage 2 cams I would be over 300 to the wheels. Im building a new forged SOHC motor myself right now. Im going to do this one right. Will take some time but I will get there so will you!

96gt226410 · Dec 16, 2006

I've got so much planning to do. I'm aiming to have 300+ RWHP for less than $2,000. And if I want, spend a few hundred more and get a shot. What horespower do you think I'd be around with a 125 shot and all of the work listed above? Anyone wanna take a guess at about what times I would run? I've never been to a track with a manual trans so keep that in mind. Thanks...

I'm getting so damn excited now!!! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME!!!!!! :santa_grin:

jpajkos · Dec 16, 2006

If your going to spray it your bottom end won't do very great man. Defiantly try to stick to NA with a stock bottom end. Ported Heads and stage 2 cams w/ bolt ons and a good tune will get you your 300-350

96gt226410 · Dec 16, 2006

I thought the stock bottom end is good for 450 hp?

Dalamar · Dec 16, 2006

Well nothing is garanteed.
Roughly you can get into the low 400 range, with a blower and a great tune.

The rods and pistons are weak, they will break if you have any detonation at those power levels. like 2-3 seconds worth.

Nitrous hit's hard, so it stresses it more, You'd be pushing your luck. I'd go 100 shot with the cams and ported heads.
Just make sure you get the best tuner you can find, and you "should" be fine.

96gt226410 · Dec 16, 2006

If it's that close to damaging the engine, I'll just keep it NA. I'm not going to spend all of this time and money on building an engine just so I can blow it up in my first time hitting the juice, ya know? Maybe I'll have to spend some more money and look for a forged shortblock that's slightly used or something. Anyone going to be selling one by Febuary/March? :santa_afro:

jpajkos · Dec 16, 2006

I'll have my motor I have currently for sale. I bought a forged and bored short block myself. :dancing6: I have a P.I. Motor w/ super low miles on it w/ ported heads. See me sig. I'll keep a look out for a forged block for you if I happen to run into one again.