Help with bump steer

TheOdessa

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Hey guys. Ran into a bump steer issue with my car and would like to correct it because it’s quite scary. I’ve been reading a lot on the issue but I’m not quite understanding how to correctly install a kit and adjust it.

My car has a 1.5” drop. I have a MM solid steering rack kit installed, MOOG inners and moog outters installed. Do I remove the outters and install the bump steer kit with spacers to match so it fits correctly under load? Will my local mustang speed shop adjust the spacers correctly during alignment or how does that work? I want to install it so I can get it to my alignment shop safely but also want to understand what they are having to do to correct it. I also have CC plates if that helps.

Additionally do you guys recommend a certain brand or will a house brand like SVE get me where I need to be? I’m all for going name brand if the benefit is justified. For some reason my mind isn’t wrapping completely around how bump steer kits work totally.

For the record my bump steer used to be horrible when it was aligned by a non-speed shop. This was many years ago. Once I had a mustang speed shop do it it was so much better. The car used to steer itself when hitting small bumps and hard braking but not so much after getting a proper alignment. Now it’ll do it sometimes on really bad roads and slightly under hard braking but to me the shop would tell me during the alignment process if I need it but I don’t know if they can gauge it? I saw MM makes a machine. Am I better off doing this whole thing myself with MM’s machine?


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TheOdessa

TheOdessa

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Additionally would I need Steeda X2 ball joints as well? The more I research this the more it all makes sense. Having a 1.5” drop and never planning to go lower because of my long tubes I’m trying to ensure I get the most bang for my buck and time.

I will say seeing the lower control arms angled up a lot versus stock looks weird. I can see why all this is made. Having experienced harsh bump steer from a bad alignment and slight bump steer from a good alignment and perfect driving from my 2018 F150 makes me want to correct all these things.

I’m looking at upgrading my CC plates to MM (right now I have SR performance and they look super cheap. Reading horror stories of how some failed on people - I can see why now.) Getting a bumpsteer kit and X2 ball joints. I just hate replacing ball joints as the MOOG I have in are only a year old barely so I’m curious on thoughts.


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OLD H2S

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The first thing to do is get everything set to where you want it forever because when you start down the rabbit hole tuning the front end you will change the bump steer settings and make one thing better and something else worse. The first thing is to get rid of the brake dive because you must brake all the time, yes??
The bad brake dive is going to change the angle of all the parts you just set.
The tie rod end should be equal to the center of the lower ball joint..
Different ball joints have different centers of rotation and are hard to tell, you have to be under the car while someone pushes up and down on the fender and put a piece of tape on the lower ball joint and mark the center of rotation on the tape. ACCURATELY, this takes practice. The steering tie rod end kit comes with spacers to get the rod end to the same center as the lower ball joint.
How accurate do you want to be? is like asking how fast do you want to go.
If your tape mark is good then your adjustment can be good. The high end machines can and do increase the accuracy but every time there is a change you must do it again and the smaller the change will make a bigger difference.
One local hotshot on the autocross seen here owns the race shop that does this job for people does his own car by eye and says you are chasing deminisning returns as far as using the high end gauges. Great for a car with 800 pound springs and accurate because the car is so stiff nothing changes much, and the suspension is done once and being left alone, you are different.
You can make your own set up to gauge the set up but what then if you do not like it ?
You got your ride height but the car dives on braking and jumps over bumps, and has bad actions but looks cool sitting still.
 

OLD H2S

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I forgot about corner weighing the car which makes a big difference in going left and right. Most people do this last and are suppressed at how it makes the car more neutral. But you just changed the whole ride height at all 4 corners and really messed up your bump steer settings.
On my car in the end I needed a torque strap on the engine with the street set up because the suspension was softer and the car balance would shift more.
 

Addicted

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Since Old H2s greatly covered whats important, I will answer your other question with what brand you should buy. The brand you should buy is the one that fits you fancy. Really you should never skimp out on parts that are of great importance to how the car steers and drives. Your life, the passengers, and the cars next, and behind you all depend on it.
This is exactly what I do. If there's a part that I need to change out, easy to reach, and doesn't involve everyones saftey, I will get a cheaper part. If it's the total opposite of what I described, I will purchase higher end parts, or something equivalent to the real OEM recommendations, and not some cheap selling point that most aftermarket OE part manufacturers say. MM, Steeda, Team-Z have nice pieces and I'm sure others do as well. Lets say you have MM cc plates, would go with MM for the bump steer kit, because most likely they designed it around thair own kit. I hope you get it figured out brother!
 
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TheOdessa

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You guys are all amazing and I greatly appreciate it. This is fantastic advice and when it’s broken down like this it makes a ton of sense. I truly appreciate it. Also good point on the brands. Trust me 95% of the time I go with quality components but I wasn’t sure. Learning that cheaper stuff likes to be made of cheap joints and metals.

I’m really hung up on the whole X2 ball joint thing. Some people say the X2 isn’t quality. Some people say it’s absolutely needed. While new CC plates and bump steer is for sure on the table I can’t decide whether to keep in the MOOG or swap for an X2? Anyone tried the X2 with positive results or should I keep what I have now?


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You guys are all amazing and I greatly appreciate it. This is fantastic advice and when it’s broken down like this it makes a ton of sense. I truly appreciate it. Also good point on the brands. Trust me 95% of the time I go with quality components but I wasn’t sure. Learning that cheaper stuff likes to be made of cheap joints and metals.

I’m really hung up on the whole X2 ball joint thing. Some people say the X2 isn’t quality. Some people say it’s absolutely needed. While new CC plates and bump steer is for sure on the table I can’t decide whether to keep in the MOOG or swap for an X2? Anyone tried the X2 with positive results or should I keep what I have now?


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I think Evil311 has used or tried the x2 out, so you might want PM him and ask.
If and when I go to Advance ECT....i always try to get Moog. Me and you talked about the A arms previously, and I have full confidence in but I could be wrong.
 

OLD H2S

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I go through Main Street at high speed where I live then slam on the brakes hard to turn on my street and make adjustments for dive and lock up first. Panic stops in a hotrod are the most important thing in my mind as a life time of doing stupid shit try to bite me in the butt.
Brake pressure, brake pads , brake calipers are all changes I make to get the buggy to stop as fast as I can.
 

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I go through Main Street at high speed where I live then slam on the brakes hard to turn on my street and make adjustments for dive and lock up first. Panic stops in a hotrod are the most important thing in my mind as a life time of doing stupid shit try to bite me in the butt.
Brake pressure, brake pads , brake calipers are all changes I make to get the buggy to stop as fast as I can.
Yup, I think its so dang stupid when people say " I don't need brakes" haha, there more important than the gas pedal to me.
 

CobraEd

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You guys are all amazing and I greatly appreciate it. This is fantastic advice and when it’s broken down like this it makes a ton of sense. I truly appreciate it. Also good point on the brands. Trust me 95% of the time I go with quality components but I wasn’t sure. Learning that cheaper stuff likes to be made of cheap joints and metals.

I’m really hung up on the whole X2 ball joint thing. Some people say the X2 isn’t quality. Some people say it’s absolutely needed. While new CC plates and bump steer is for sure on the table I can’t decide whether to keep in the MOOG or swap for an X2? Anyone tried the X2 with positive results or should I keep what I have now?


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Hey guys. Ran into a bump steer issue with my car and would like to correct it because it’s quite scary. I’ve been reading a lot on the issue but I’m not quite understanding how to correctly install a kit and adjust it.

My car has a 1.5” drop. I have a MM solid steering rack kit installed, MOOG inners and moog outters installed. Do I remove the outters and install the bump steer kit with spacers to match so it fits correctly under load? Will my local mustang speed shop adjust the spacers correctly during alignment or how does that work? I want to install it so I can get it to my alignment shop safely but also want to understand what they are having to do to correct it. I also have CC plates if that helps.

Additionally do you guys recommend a certain brand or will a house brand like SVE get me where I need to be? I’m all for going name brand if the benefit is justified. For some reason my mind isn’t wrapping completely around how bump steer kits work totally.

For the record my bump steer used to be horrible when it was aligned by a non-speed shop. This was many years ago. Once I had a mustang speed shop do it it was so much better. The car used to steer itself when hitting small bumps and hard braking but not so much after getting a proper alignment. Now it’ll do it sometimes on really bad roads and slightly under hard braking but to me the shop would tell me during the alignment process if I need it but I don’t know if they can gauge it? I saw MM makes a machine. Am I better off doing this whole thing myself with MM’s machine?


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Hey guys. Ran into a bump steer issue with my car and would like to correct it because it’s quite scary. I’ve been reading a lot on the issue but I’m not quite understanding how to correctly install a kit and adjust it.

My car has a 1.5” drop. I have a MM solid steering rack kit installed, MOOG inners and moog outters installed. Do I remove the outters and install the bump steer kit with spacers to match so it fits correctly under load? Will my local mustang speed shop adjust the spacers correctly during alignment or how does that work? I want to install it so I can get it to my alignment shop safely but also want to understand what they are having to do to correct it. I also have CC plates if that helps.

Additionally do you guys recommend a certain brand or will a house brand like SVE get me where I need to be? I’m all for going name brand if the benefit is justified. For some reason my mind isn’t wrapping completely around how bump steer kits work totally.
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Let me share my experience. I have a 2003 Cobra & an 85 GT both with stock front k-members but both have a bunch of MM suspension and stiffening components installed.
The Cobra has MM coilovers & the 85 GT has conventional location springs & the complete MM Road & Track Box.

On the Cobra I equalized ride heights, aligned, scaled and equalized diagonal cross weights, then bumpsteered it front & rear using a bumpsteer gauge.

On the 85 GT I aligned it & bumpsteered it using a bumsteer gauge.

To really get an understanding of bumpsteer & how to minimize it in the important ranges of motion of the suspension, I recommend you read the tech info on bumpsteer on MM's website & the instructions to their bumpsteer kits. Their instructions will have you measuring bumpsteer with a bumpsteer gauge (the more accurate) at different points throughout the range of motion of the suspension.

I can't speak to how much difference, or the diminishing returns that may be experienced compared to doing it without actually using a bumpsteer gauge because that is the only way I have done. If you get satisfactory results dong it by alternative means, it may be worth giving that a try first. I would not be able to utilize the alternative method of measuring bumpsteer on my because the springs are too stiff to hardly be able to push down on the car at all , let alone maybe compressing a couple of inches. My bumpsteer readings were take with the springs removed.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that, contrary to somewhat common belief, just leveling out the tie rod ends on a lowered car does not translate to minimized bumpsteer because the balljoint on the LCA swings through an arc that is not parallel to the arc of the tie rod end. That difference in arcs causes changes in toe.

I can say that the end result of doing all that work on the alignment & bumpsteer for both Mustangs was very precise, predictable, and controllable handling with a lot higher limits.
 

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evilcw311

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Steeda x2’s are great and do help to an extent. I have a brand new set for my 95. If they’re the same for your new edge hit me up.

You’ll still need to adjust everything to correct bumpsteer but these help to get it that much closer Already without having to go crazy on the adjustments.


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TrickVert

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As a parallel conversation, why is it that some lowered cars seem to go all out of whack, needing ball joints and bumpsteer kits, while others, lowered the same amount., are fine (or seem to be)? Case in point, my '95 lowered 1.5" on Eibach Pro-Kit springs with' 03 obra LCA's and stock K-member has never skipped and skidded in turns.
 
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TheOdessa

TheOdessa

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As a parallel conversation, why is it that some lowered cars seem to go all out of whack, needing ball joints and bumpsteer kits, while others, lowered the same amount., are fine (or seem to be)? Case in point, my '95 lowered 1.5" on Eibach Pro-Kit springs with' 03 obra LCA's and stock K-member has never skipped and skidded in turns.

From what I read, cobra lca are actually built ever so differently since from the factory they came lower. This is for the 03 04 and can not confirm other years.

Guys were saying you can do cobra LCA and stay within spec without having to resort to a bump steer kit or X2 ball joints. This is what I read on forums.

With that said I tried looking at some as I was curious to see what they cost and they hover around the $300 mark. They also come preloaded with a tougher bearing versus the GT rubber which would be a double plus.

Less then a year ago I just put in MOOG lower control arms with OEM spec rubber loaded in them. Only thing I changed was the ball joint. The ball joint they came with was cheap as hell. I pressed them out and pressed in MOOG problem solvers. No issues.


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evilcw311

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I’ve never heard of or seen a difference in the cobra lca’s. That would be new to me. Not seeing there’s not a difference but in all my years I hadn’t seen it yet.


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From what I read, cobra lca are actually built ever so differently since from the factory they came lower. This is for the 03 04 and can not confirm other years.

Guys were saying you can do cobra LCA and stay within spec without having to resort to a bump steer kit or X2 ball joints. This is what I read on forums.

With that said I tried looking at some as I was curious to see what they cost and they hover around the $300 mark. They also come preloaded with a tougher bearing versus the GT rubber which would be a double plus.

Less then a year ago I just put in MOOG lower control arms with OEM spec rubber loaded in them. Only thing I changed was the ball joint. The ball joint they came with was cheap as hell. I pressed them out and pressed in MOOG problem solvers. No issues.


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According to MM tech info on LCAs:
"1999-04 OEM front control arms provide more tire clearance at full steering lock than the 1994-98 front control arms. This reduces possible interference with wide wheels and tires, allowing a greater steering angle, and therefore a tighter turning radius."

I have an 03 Cobra on which I replaced the LCAs with MM LCAs. I installed the 03 Cobra LCAs on my 85 GT. As noted above the 99-04 LCAs allow a tighter turning radius. The reason for this is the back side of the LCA has an indent in it to allow more tire clearance in tight turns, compared to the earlier LCAs which are basically straight on both front and rear sides. Earlier SN95 LCAs had the same size bushings front & rear. Newer LCAs had larger 'Hydro Bushings" in the rear attachment point. The hydro bushings result in less impact harshness. Hydro bushings were not unique to the 03 - 04 Cobra & I have not heard of stiffer rubber bushings in the Cobras.
 

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Pic of my 03 Cobra LCA
feaa11f145051886f1e6bebc248d185b.jpg


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joe65

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yeah hard to tell the difference. here's a thrashed one i pulled from my pile this year. 00 GT20200308_132105.jpg
 
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TheOdessa

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It’s honestly something I saw on a forum. That’s why I put the disclaimer because I couldn’t personally attest to it.

I read the bushings are made of a firmer material versus the GT A arms and something is different to allow for the stock drop versus the GTs height. I’ll need to research it more ess on the Mach 1 as I know those cane lowered too.


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