Horse Power ?
- Thread starter firestuds1
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Okay I don't want to start an uproar but I will call you on the tune... BS.... :laugh: Like I said before I have never seen a Cobra with all the bolt ons gain more than 3-5hp at the rear wheels from a chip. I have tried every single one out there. My buddy also. Unless you use a power adder, NOS, SC, or Turbo you don't need a chip.
The Computer ECU for the 97-01 Cobra's have a self Learning system. If you install the bolt ons correctly you start by disconnecting the battery and letting it sit for 30-60min. Then when you start the car after the installation the ECU will notice the changes and adjust accordingly. It take about a full day of driving the car for it to completely learn the changes. A chip is designed to help retard or forward the timing fuel curve. I don't know a single bolt on that drastically changes the air flow or fuel into an engine that requires a change in the timing or fuel. A chip helps prevent the posibility of leaning out the engine or from it running fat on fuel. Thus keeping the engine from detonation. Yes, it does help in changing the ranges for shifting and Rev limits ect but the biggest reasons for the chip is timing fuel changes.
A chip only tricks the car to believe something else, Static changes. It doesn't change the ECU program in the car.
If you say it made a huge difference then provide proof. Dyno before and after chip. My biggest thing with chips when someone tells you they can get you 30hp with a simple tune make them prove it to you. Then stand there when they do it. Have them Dyno before then after. Make them show you the gain. I will bet you on a N/A Cobra you will not ever see 30hp from a chip. Bolt on's or not. $300-$400.00 is way to much for anything less than 15hp.
Don't take my word for it try it. Take your car and do it. But watch them dyno the car before and after. Let me know what you get if you get the gains promised I will eat my words.
The Computer ECU for the 97-01 Cobra's have a self Learning system. If you install the bolt ons correctly you start by disconnecting the battery and letting it sit for 30-60min. Then when you start the car after the installation the ECU will notice the changes and adjust accordingly. It take about a full day of driving the car for it to completely learn the changes. A chip is designed to help retard or forward the timing fuel curve. I don't know a single bolt on that drastically changes the air flow or fuel into an engine that requires a change in the timing or fuel. A chip helps prevent the posibility of leaning out the engine or from it running fat on fuel. Thus keeping the engine from detonation. Yes, it does help in changing the ranges for shifting and Rev limits ect but the biggest reasons for the chip is timing fuel changes.
A chip only tricks the car to believe something else, Static changes. It doesn't change the ECU program in the car.
If you say it made a huge difference then provide proof. Dyno before and after chip. My biggest thing with chips when someone tells you they can get you 30hp with a simple tune make them prove it to you. Then stand there when they do it. Have them Dyno before then after. Make them show you the gain. I will bet you on a N/A Cobra you will not ever see 30hp from a chip. Bolt on's or not. $300-$400.00 is way to much for anything less than 15hp.
Don't take my word for it try it. Take your car and do it. But watch them dyno the car before and after. Let me know what you get if you get the gains promised I will eat my words.
Lightning Struck
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wopony98 said:
this is a very interesting statement you have made ???, and your going to get the chance to see if your right or not, my 99 Cobra has all the regular bolt-ons and HAS NOT BEEN TUNED YET and will be getting dyno tuned with SNIPER software and a chip at Wayne's Dyno & Performance in Jacksonville NC within the next couple weeks. I will be posting before and after dyno sheets to show the gains ( if any ) from the tune and chip. So we can see at least one example of a 4-valve cobra with bolt-ons and the benefit of a chip from a dyno tune.
Please, prove me wrong. I have tried for the last 8 years to believed the hype. But I am a show me guy and no one, no one has been able to show me a tune where they got the gains they claim across the board. I haven't seen a tune yet on a bolt on only Cobra bring any serious gains in the engine.
Good luck and I can't wait to see what your experience brings.
Good luck and I can't wait to see what your experience brings.
Lightning Struck
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wopony98 said:
Well I am hopeing to see at least 10hp gained from the tune, I'm pretty sure it is running lean / rich now ( however I have not tried the method you stated of disconnecting the batt for an hour and going from there) but in any event with the dyno tune I'll know exactly where it is and if any gains were attained from the service rendered.
Well I hope you get the power you want. I personally wouldn't spend 400 for 10hp. You should really make them Dyno the car first on their machine in shop and then after. Unless you have dyno'd on this one before. Dyno's very widely. What one tells you another will tell you differently. This way you see the gain based on their dyno.
Good luck
Good luck
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My car has already been ran on the dyno (same week I bought it) it made 272hp and 280tq BONE STOCK. I will be taking it back to the same place to have my tune work done, there will be a initial run to set a baseline and then the tuning will be done and a final dyno run ( sheet ) that I will post along with the first one from the before tune state. I feel pretty good about seeing the 10hp improvement Im looking for...........and if I dont im going to :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
have you dyno'd the car with the additional mods? I would do the pull with the additional mods you add then the chip. It is far better to save 300+ dollars then spend it on 3-5hp. Like I said I would have them dyno first then put the chip on. Can't wait to see the numbers.
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Yea my car has NOT been back to the dyno since the First run when it was stock and made 272hp and 280tq. When I take it this time I will get a run in to see where it sits right now ( probally around 310-315 from what other 99-01's put out) and then the tuneing will be done to see how much extra hp can be gained from the tune and then the chip will be burned and installed. I'll be posting all the info when it is time to take it and run it.
wopony98 said:
You seem to be confused on some things.
If you put in just a chip, that is just that. However, if you do aan entire new tune where all the tables are rewritten, then thats completely different and your theory is wrong.
The SCT tunes are completely rewrittern and the stock tune is taken from the ecu and stored in the xcal/xcal2 boxes and and entire new tune is loaded into the ecu.
The 97-01 cobra has a self learning. However, it only relearns itself to the set parameters of that tune thats on the ecu
That is because the SCT tunes REMOVES the stock tune and the ability to revert back to the stock tune. The ECU does have the ability to relearn itself only to the tune that is loaded into it. Basically this mean that if I unplug a plug wire and run the car IRREGARDLESS OF WHAT TUNE IS IN IT, the cel will come on for a misfire. Now if I replug the plugwire back in and drive on the ecu will relearn this and shut off the CEL. Another case is if I pull the neg battery cable, and put it back later, the ecu will relearn that.
If SCT removes the stock tune prior to loading the new one on. Now with that, how can the ecu revert and relarn to the old tune if the parameters are not there?
Many bolt ons 96-98 Cobras that are tuned around around 280-305 rwhp and some 99/01 tuned bolt on cobras are around 295-310ish with full bolt ons and a tune.
I do, it is called long tubes which have been proven to change the air fuel mixture and cause a check engine light to come on. Reason being is the front o2's are moved back and can trigger this My "custom tune" fixed that problemwopony98 said:
Hope this proven tech has helped clear up some misconceptions
I will give you with SCT that it does in deed do what you said with taking the old program out. However I am telling you from my own personal experience with several SN95 Cobra's that you will not see 10hp on a chip tune with straight bolt ons. Now you will see changes in the power curve. You may gain more torque and HP in different rpm's however overall I haven't see it on a NA Cobra.
I have added Mid-length Headers, numbers are almost identical to the LT. Now as to the car running rich, yes my Cobra has run a little on the rich side but still no gain over 3rwhp was seen with a Chip Tune. Sure a chip will stop the light from coming on because of the placement of the O2 Sensors however this doesn't equal HP.
I haven't tried the SCT tune (but have seen many guys who did without the spoken gain) and I will still challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I have no problem eating my words. If you can show me gains that are spoken of by any of these guys (tuners, Manufacturers) "Gain up to 30hp" then show me. Mod for Mod, Chip for Chip the cost doesn't equal or justify the price they charge to put one in, let alone the cost to buy the product. You can save your money and buy something else that will give you that HP.
What happens and even you can agree, given you have almost the exact mods as me, that many mustang owners go into a shop and put on several mods at the same time as the Chip. Then have the car Dyno'd and see only this great gain in HP. They believe its all related to the tune, with minimal gains from the mods put on. This is why I say you want to know what your buying, and see what your really getting... Dyno first then put the chip or program on the car and dyno again. 10rwhp is the max you might see but more than likely on a NA Mustang or Cobra you will only get 3-6rwhp. That is 80-100.00 per rwhp! :nonono:
As it was explained to me by local Ford Technitians and Performance Shop Tunner the Self Learning Computer in the Cobra will try to go back to a normal operating perameter that was preset, however as the computer registers more air flow it will attempt to accomadate by dumping in more fuel. Its not designed to accomadate perfectly but rather to protect the engine. So it will over compensate by dumping more fuel in then is probably needed. It however does learn and will adjust the best it can given the 94-98 technology at that time could do. The car may run rough and even suck on Gas Mileage until you get a tune to smooth out the fuel to air ratio. However this still doesn't give you the Awesome HP Gains that are preached about. :rant:
Bottom line Dyno first- then add only the chip and dyno again.... If your happy with the cost to gain then buy it. My own personal opinion is the cost to rwhp gain sucks! I got more HP at the rear wheels from my K&N with air silencer removal then any chip has ever produced on a NA car.
I am all about making my Cobra a faster better performing car but I am a show me type person when it comes to mods on my car. I use to believe the hype when I started modding my first Mustang. Now I know better than to believe what someone tells me or I read. If I learn something new from this that makes my car perform better OUTSTANDING I am all for it. I just don't like people who claim to have all this great stuff from a chip and convience others to go down the same road (because they don't know better) when they will gain more from other bolt on's.
Okay I am done ranting and off the soap box. Just show me numbers :breakit: :rollinglaugh:
I have added Mid-length Headers, numbers are almost identical to the LT. Now as to the car running rich, yes my Cobra has run a little on the rich side but still no gain over 3rwhp was seen with a Chip Tune. Sure a chip will stop the light from coming on because of the placement of the O2 Sensors however this doesn't equal HP.
I haven't tried the SCT tune (but have seen many guys who did without the spoken gain) and I will still challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I have no problem eating my words. If you can show me gains that are spoken of by any of these guys (tuners, Manufacturers) "Gain up to 30hp" then show me. Mod for Mod, Chip for Chip the cost doesn't equal or justify the price they charge to put one in, let alone the cost to buy the product. You can save your money and buy something else that will give you that HP.
What happens and even you can agree, given you have almost the exact mods as me, that many mustang owners go into a shop and put on several mods at the same time as the Chip. Then have the car Dyno'd and see only this great gain in HP. They believe its all related to the tune, with minimal gains from the mods put on. This is why I say you want to know what your buying, and see what your really getting... Dyno first then put the chip or program on the car and dyno again. 10rwhp is the max you might see but more than likely on a NA Mustang or Cobra you will only get 3-6rwhp. That is 80-100.00 per rwhp! :nonono:
As it was explained to me by local Ford Technitians and Performance Shop Tunner the Self Learning Computer in the Cobra will try to go back to a normal operating perameter that was preset, however as the computer registers more air flow it will attempt to accomadate by dumping in more fuel. Its not designed to accomadate perfectly but rather to protect the engine. So it will over compensate by dumping more fuel in then is probably needed. It however does learn and will adjust the best it can given the 94-98 technology at that time could do. The car may run rough and even suck on Gas Mileage until you get a tune to smooth out the fuel to air ratio. However this still doesn't give you the Awesome HP Gains that are preached about. :rant:
Bottom line Dyno first- then add only the chip and dyno again.... If your happy with the cost to gain then buy it. My own personal opinion is the cost to rwhp gain sucks! I got more HP at the rear wheels from my K&N with air silencer removal then any chip has ever produced on a NA car.
I am all about making my Cobra a faster better performing car but I am a show me type person when it comes to mods on my car. I use to believe the hype when I started modding my first Mustang. Now I know better than to believe what someone tells me or I read. If I learn something new from this that makes my car perform better OUTSTANDING I am all for it. I just don't like people who claim to have all this great stuff from a chip and convience others to go down the same road (because they don't know better) when they will gain more from other bolt on's.
Okay I am done ranting and off the soap box. Just show me numbers :breakit: :rollinglaugh:
I replied to your comment ofwopony98 said:I have added Mid-length Headers, numbers are almost identical to the LT. Now as to the car running rich, yes my Cobra has run a little on the rich side but still no gain over 3rwhp was seen with a Chip Tune. Sure a chip will stop the light from coming on because of the placement of the O2 Sensors however this doesn't equal HP.
"I don't know a single bolt on that drastically changes the air flow or fuel into an engine that requires a change in the timing or fuel" I gave you an example. I didnt state anything about HP gains with a tune to turn the cel off. I simply told you that there is a single bolt on that needs a tune to turn it off.
Keep in mine a tune is only as good as the tuner. The older style chips sucked as it was basically a plug and play. Now a days tunes including chips rewrite the entire tune. New fuel tables, new timing tables, spark, etc. Now if you just do only a chip then yes you wont see anything. Now install full bolt ons, you could see 15 out of it easily.
There are guys on SVT Performance getting 15 rwhp with SCT
Its all good. 8) I am sure someone out there has a story, I will take alook at the SVTPerformance Website. I frequent them but haven't looked specifically at the tunes. Your right there is much more to a tune now. SCT was the first to incoorperate an actual reprogram to the OBD Computer system. The chips just sent false signals and such to trick the computer to do what they wanted.
What did you see in your Cobra? Did you dyno before the tune and after?
What did you see in your Cobra? Did you dyno before the tune and after?
