i dont get import car hype, someone help me understand

driftingmustang

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well, I'm a libran, meaning i try to look at things from a balanced perspective. lately I've been pondering why do some people like light weight four bangers.

I think, that I have as an unbiased view of this as a proud mustang owner can get. I am half chinese. I grew up a little bit around cars, and they were all imports. I have rapaired and/or extensively driven Mitsubishi diamantes, Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4, Acura 3.2TL, Toyota Camery and Honda civic (coupe) and when i was growing up, around the corner from my block, import racing scene was big. Also, my dad does come from the muscle car days of the 60's and early 70's (owning a 1965 mustang, charger, and challenger at diffrent points in time, and he street raced).

Now, I can understand liking the V-r4 (or even the diamante) and the 3.2TL is a realy nice car, the part that gets me are the guys who like Civics, integras, preludes, eclipses etc. (cars simalr to those).

I have a 1994 16 valve honda civic coupe (which was acquired for free from my aunt). It is the same generation as a 1996 civic and my Mustang GT is also a 96 so i think it can be somewhat of a fair comparison. Here's my Rundown an opinions of the 2 cars:

Honda civic is amazing on gas, but i am writing about performance cause civic fans like to brag. Th car is 16 valve but it's not a vtech. The car feels peppy off the line for the first 20 mph but The car has a slower 40 to 60 than my mustang has a zero to 60. Going up hill is horrible. peddle to the mettle, you acelarate 1 mph. per second after going beyond 20 mph. that is not very over exagerated if at all. now, many civic fans who acknoweldge the lack of speed say "i can actualy turn." as a civic owner, i will attest to the fact that they are not great handlers at all. The car has a 63% Front and 47% wight balance and it's FWD. Understeer is a gross understatement. at higher speeds, 60 and above, the car feels very unstable by comparison to everything else i have driven probaly because it's so light. a truck passes you, the car sways a bit back and forth, hell, it sways for no reason other than the fact the no road is perfectley even. the faster you go, the worst it feels, and yes, the tires are balanced. The muffler roted out and fell off the exhaust pipe, and muffler had to be replaced. engine runs great, but the automatic transmission is realy rough and takes a full 5 seconds to engage after you put it into drive. you know it's engaged with a nice thump. The car has been slightley lowered simply by putting slightly smaller wheels on the car (done before i got it)

My 96 mustang GT is a manual transmission. It's been lowered (bought it like that) and definatley handles better than the civic. i wouldnt know how a mustang feels around the turns stock. the car feels much more stable than the civic, and my the wheels DO need to be balanced. has a K/N intake, otherwise completely stock. from this point on, you guys know the rest.

Now, what is with these light weight fwd 4 banger car fans?! I am from the same generation as these numb nuts, I do like the first and third fast and the furious. I am half Asian, and have even lived in asia. I Love the supra, The S2000, and the skyline (not as much as the mustang), I am very much into drifting, and touges. I do have mad respect for great built cars no matter the brand or driveline. I think some body kits kick ass. (but not into vinyls, like my rides clean). I love the sound of a turbo and think 4 cylinders done right sound second best to 8 cylinders. and even with all this, I do not understand these Import car freaks. they seem to deny anything good about domestics and think their 4 bangers are fast naturally aspirated (only s2000 owners can say that).

By the way, I hate ricers, which i define as poser racers and or cars that has an overexgerated wing and a fart can and/or and ugly body kit and lots of stickers (or a couple inappropriate ones).i also define it as a import car fan so dumb that if you say "i have done in ls1 swap into my civic" while the hood is wide open, and he belives you and acts like he knows exactley what you are talking when in fact he has no idea what the LS1 is, and he never asks.
 

Shocker98GT

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It's just the same kind of ignorance you'll see in any area. Somebody makes some false/uninformed claim or exaggerates something, everybody jumps on the bandwagon and believes it. It's like when the new Mustang came out "OMG it has a solid axle :puke:". Unless you actually enjoy the wheelhop, torque steer, and hugely biased weight distribution of a FWD car, you'd best reserve your opinion. I've seen civic drivers even complain of how nose heavy a V8 car is, and of course wondered how ignorant somebody can actually be.

Or when you get a manufacturer that's forced to water down a larger V8 engine due to crippling emissions and fuel economy standards, compared to a 4 banger that has a lot more leeway in that department, that's when the ricer math comes out. I guess it's also that people like an underdog, doing "less with more" or "few against many" or however you prefer to phrase it, it excites people. It's not that american manufacturers are incapable of making high output smaller cars, they've done it before. The turbo 2.3, in whatever vehicle the owner preferred, was a venerable engine which had no competition from overseas at the time, it was really built to ward off the upcoming import craze and people didn't bite for the most part. The Grand National was the same way. They still have a very loyal, dedicated following, but the cars simply did not sell as well as a 5.0 Mustang, a Camaro, whatever did because V8s are what americans want from these cars. The manufacturer will stay where loyalty of the customer lies.

Ford "could" turbo a Duratec and put it in a lightweight car, and their engine platforms have proven themselves as good bases for performance platforms (look at the Aston Martin V-12 which was duratec based, the Noble M400s, etc.).

I'll give them credit on design, the output of the smaller engines manufacturers across the board are putting out is very impressive. If it were a displacement argument we'd all be driving around in 500+ cubic inch big block cars doing it the old school gas guzzling way, in which I really don't see what you're trying to prove when you take it that far. I'm all for efficiency. One good thing about the modular engine is it's basically forced us to be open-minded with the capabilities of new technology, though the modular platform fell short in a few areas it's still a very competent engine with a lot of potential. But by the time you mod a 4 cylinder to a respectable power output, you're gaining nothing on a V8 in hardly any area. I can't think of a naturally aspirated 4 bangers that will run 13s and get better than a real world 25mpg on the highway. A Honda S2000 is a mid 14 second car and the gas mileage really isn't all that great considering the tiny dimensions and low weight of the car.
 

Hellion94

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The appeal of the sport compact scene is the same appeal that every other automotive-related scene possesses, and that's the appreciation of cars and what they can do.

Before you stop reading and start flaming me, hear me out.

Think of the reasons that you bought the car you did, and not some other car. Now I'm betting that one of those reasons was that you just have a "thing" for that kind of car. So what exactly makes it wrong for other people to have their own inclination to buy the automobile of their choice? Do we really need to prosecute them for buying a car that we don't neccessarily like or approve of?

The sport compact scene gained popularity for he same reasons muscle cars did, and the same reason that the 5.0 movement was so huge. The plain and simple fact of the matter is this, A. The cars are abundant and cheap, B. there's an ENORMOUS aftermarket for them, and C. Anyone can get their hands on them and start creating what they feel is a nice car.

Now I don't like the people that watch fast and the furious, and suddenly think they are mechanics and car experts. Those people bug the crap out of me as well. But the "Sport Compact" enthusiasts that actually do know their stuff and actually put some real time and effort into their cars can come out with some really cool stuff. There are fast civics, fast CRX's, fast pretty much anything you can think of. There are also very nicely done Civics and CRX's. It's just a fact of life that some people need to accept.

In your post you cite how bad the performance of a relatively (or totally) stock civic is. Now tell me what car, that isn't a total performance car from the factory, is exceptional at any of the things you talked about? It's funny that you mention understeer in your post, because our favorite Mustang is a notorious king of understeer. It's just the way it is. But they can be fixed, and made into supercars, and so can the Hondas.

I like the Supra's and everything else just fine, I think a lot of them are cool. Hell, I'd own some if I could afford them, but I'm not a real Honda guy or whatever. Still, generalizing all honda owners as idiots and morons for buying "the wrong car" is a bit harsh. The people that are obviously just talking out of their ass, we can make fun of and patronize, but I still think we should give credit where credit is due.
 
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driftingmustang

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to reply to helion: the mustang can at least power over and oversteer. I also think you missed my point and that, I admit is probaly my fault. I wasnt pissed at people who actualy know what they are doing and do build great cars. They have my respect. The thing is, Time and time again, I have encountered ricers challenging me at stop lights, i dont street race, nor are they worthy of my attention, so i dont bother. in the past 2 years, i have only come across 3 FWD import four cylinder cars i thought to be respectable. by respectable, i mean they were fast, and didnt only act like it (2 were clean sleepers too) (2 civics, 1 VW). I also fine with your daily driver too, it's about saving gas.

now, I try to look at things from both sides of the coin, It's the way i am. If anything I should be a import fan myself given my background which fits every criteria for a future import tuner fan. but, i always liked cars in general and had a thing for speed. when time came around for my first car, time came that i needed to do alota research cause i wasnt fixed in my mind on what i wanted, especialy without doing research. at the time i was a big VR4 fan, and still am. i was way more engrossed in the import scene at the time but i did have certain prefrences i was looking for. RWD (or AWD if i could get VR4) with atleast 200HP, reliable and tons of parts out there. every japanese car i looked at fell short in some way, even my favorite cars (240sx lacked HP, VR4 is easy to break, ive repaired VR4s, Acura is FWD and honda is underpowered FWD). The mustang, when i started looking at domestics, shined like a light of perfection to me at the time. in retrospect, i know i have made the absolutely right decision, and have been thinking lately, there has to be some positives i didnt see at the time, maybe import guys are right about somthing, there are 2 sides to every coin. so, i went back and did some research, i looked up features, i looked up pricing, and pricing of aftermarket parts, and even performance tests from various magazines (looking at old articles and such on the net). to get comparable performance (to a mustang GT)from anything like a civic, or eclipse or 240sx, your going to spend more on modifications for the car then, not including it's price of car, than I spent on my first mustang ($6,000). today, me and my family were looking at houses. I normally drive my mustang, but we would going alota places, with city miles, so to save gas, we drove the civic. while i was driving, and remember, all this research has been as of a few months ago now, somthing in my brain snaped and all i could think about was why anyone would want a car like this to be the base of any performance car one was to build. Simply, there is no logical reason, if any kind of reason other than shere ignorance. then i also figured, people who build some of the respectable rides out of these tiny 4 bangers i do admire must like somthing about them. now this is that part that stumps me, and i came here to gather more perspectives possibly diffrent from mine because the reasons seem utterly unlogical, and as far as looks go, those little cars are eyesores prior to visual modification (somthing ricers make a worst eye sore). If i asked on a import tuner site with the statements i have made, I would A. get seriously flamed B. get all the old rederic ive already heard about import cars.

and finally, i apreciate your response alot, because i completley agree with it, but that is also the problem, it adds no new perspective for me and goes no where near my question of....What is the fuss all about? I can understand wanting to be diffrent and unique, but why is the illogical or unpractical route, in the terms of performance, the place where, it now seems many go? If not the majority now. Also, it's no longer unique to be an import tuner if uniqueness is what your aming for (a setiment i can understand),so i figure, why would anyone still go in that direction instead going after the best performer
 

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I completely understand your frustration Driftingmustang. As much as a hardcore Mustang Enthusiast I consider myself to be, I can appreciate a well built vehicle no matter the make and model. A few years back I jumped into the import scene myself with the purchase of a 94 Honda Del Sol Si. I found that there is an amazing amount of potential there, but you have to go about it different then you would with your mustang. I also found that most of the "ricers" were young kids who are mostly fresh out of high school and are easily persuaded to think that a 5" muffler tip, and 50 body scoops, and stickers all over the car is cool. However, I found that most of the import scene is actually a bit older than previously believed. For the most part, they enjoy clean looking cars, are quite knowledgeable, and have the same respect for well built vehicles, no matter the make and model. Alot of what you see on the weekend hanging out at your local IHOP are the ricers who think that their 4 door civic dx can out run a s351. They are a poor representation of the import scene, and give everyone a poor impression of what its all about. I sold my sol three years ago to my cousin and miss it alot. I also get to see the car go down hill since he doesn't take care of it..... but have recently gotten back into another sol.

Pic wore time

Old Sol
sol.jpg

eci.jpg

nos.jpg

IMAG0039.jpg

lca.jpg


New Sol
2.jpg

1.jpg

4.jpg
 

Hellion94

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to reply to helion: the mustang can at least power over and oversteer. I also think you missed my point and that, I admit is probaly my fault. I wasnt pissed at people who actualy know what they are doing and do build great cars. They have my respect. The thing is, Time and time again, I have encountered ricers challenging me at stop lights, i dont street race, nor are they worthy of my attention, so i dont bother. in the past 2 years, i have only come across 3 FWD import four cylinder cars i thought to be respectable. by respectable, i mean they were fast, and didnt only act like it (2 were clean sleepers too) (2 civics, 1 VW). I also fine with your daily driver too, it's about saving gas.

now, I try to look at things from both sides of the coin, It's the way i am. If anything I should be a import fan myself given my background which fits every criteria for a future import tuner fan. but, i always liked cars in general and had a thing for speed. when time came around for my first car, time came that i needed to do alota research cause i wasnt fixed in my mind on what i wanted, especialy without doing research. at the time i was a big VR4 fan, and still am. i was way more engrossed in the import scene at the time but i did have certain prefrences i was looking for. RWD (or AWD if i could get VR4) with atleast 200HP, reliable and tons of parts out there. every japanese car i looked at fell short in some way, even my favorite cars (240sx lacked HP, VR4 is easy to break, ive repaired VR4s, Acura is FWD and honda is underpowered FWD). The mustang, when i started looking at domestics, shined like a light of perfection to me at the time. in retrospect, i know i have made the absolutely right decision, and have been thinking lately, there has to be some positives i didnt see at the time, maybe import guys are right about somthing, there are 2 sides to every coin. so, i went back and did some research, i looked up features, i looked up pricing, and pricing of aftermarket parts, and even performance tests from various magazines (looking at old articles and such on the net). to get comparable performance (to a mustang GT)from anything like a civic, or eclipse or 240sx, your going to spend more on modifications for the car then, not including it's price of car, than I spent on my first mustang ($6,000). today, me and my family were looking at houses. I normally drive my mustang, but we would going alota places, with city miles, so to save gas, we drove the civic. while i was driving, and remember, all this research has been as of a few months ago now, somthing in my brain snaped and all i could think about was why anyone would want a car like this to be the base of any performance car one was to build. Simply, there is no logical reason, if any kind of reason other than shere ignorance. then i also figured, people who build some of the respectable rides out of these tiny 4 bangers i do admire must like somthing about them. now this is that part that stumps me, and i came here to gather more perspectives possibly diffrent from mine because the reasons seem utterly unlogical, and as far as looks go, those little cars are eyesores prior to visual modification (somthing ricers make a worst eye sore). If i asked on a import tuner site with the statements i have made, I would A. get seriously flamed B. get all the old rederic ive already heard about import cars.

and finally, i apreciate your response alot, because i completley agree with it, but that is also the problem, it adds no new perspective for me and goes no where near my question of....What is the fuss all about? I can understand wanting to be diffrent and unique, but why is the illogical or unpractical route, in the terms of performance, the place where, it now seems many go? If not the majority now. Also, it's no longer unique to be an import tuner if uniqueness is what your aming for (a setiment i can understand),so i figure, why would anyone still go in that direction instead going after the best performer

I still think you're not hearing what I'm saying. You are still thinking from a different perspective, one that has more moderate tastes. You don't like the way that the import tuners or whatever you want to call them make their cars look. I don't either, but they do. That's the "fuss." That's their lifestyle, and it's what they like. That's all there is to understand. I don't want to argue, but I just think the point that's being missed is that there is a culture for that stuff, and unfortunately, it attracts a lot of total goons who know nothing and make automotive enthusiasts everywhere looks bad. That's very unfortunate, and I totally understand your frustration in trying to understand what the hell these kids are thinking.

Perhaps they buy the civics and CRX's and stuff for the same reason that other people buy Fairmonts or Pintos, and make them fast. Maybe it's not just to be different, because we all know there's nothing different about a civic, or whatever, but maybe it's the challenge of taking a slow car, and making it into something, or taking and ugly car, and making it into what they believe is something that looks better (I'm with you that it just creates a huge eyesore). All I'm saying is that to truly understand these people you have to think of it from more of a general standpoint, instead of one of automotive bias. While I know you aren't particularly biased, There will always be a level of understanding (or lack thereof) when it comes to different cultures. That's what we are dealing with mostly, it's the same hobby, the same obsession, just a different culture. :)
 
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driftingmustang

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I guess because im still young and actualy in high school, that'swhy i encounter so many "ricers" who are realy know nothings about cars. I suppose my knowledge compared to thier lack there of is what agrivates me (probaly because of my earlier start on cars, wish they would be honest on what they realy knew) . I have ufortunately have seen so few respectable import cars on the street i suppose I've had a realy bad impression of the inport seen, that combined with no one has realy explained to me why they like it. making a slow car into a fast car does seem like a good challenge and that's I think is a realy cool thing to do. to bad the scene attracts so many idiots. Nice del sol St33da. keep it clean and never let it fall into the hands of someone my age, atleast not until they grow up lol.
 

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The import craze is the reason I can't go streetracing in a quasi-"safe" environment anymore. It's the reason I've had guns pulled on me. It's the reason being a car guy is suddenly a bad thing. It's the reason the cops are after anyone driving anything resembling a performance car.

Fuck the import craze. The stupid bastards have had a substantial negative impact on being a car enthusiast.

[/rant]

Paul.
 

White 96GT

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long story short. People like Imports because, Us kids 16-18 that still live with their parents can afford to buy them and still have money left over to mod. I almost got beat by a 500 dollar laser with a bigger turbo (400) bucks he told me and a boost controller He had lets say 1500 bucks in that car and it dam near out ran my 96GT (basically stock) that cost me 6500 bucks.
 

Shocker98GT

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ignorance does exist in our side of the camp too of course. I was talking to a guy at work just yesterday. He claims "The 89 LX GTs are still the fastest Mustangs they ever put out except Shelbys and stuff. You can make them run a 13 flat stock". I'm like they're great cars, but there is no way in hell you're hitting a 13 flat in a stock 5.0 car, 14s is what you'll get. If you up the timing, take off the air silencer, and do the other "freebie" mods plus add some slicks and gears, you may dip into the 13s with EXCELLENT driving, but low 13s is a hell no. The 05 Mustangs are the fastest GT mass production mustangs they've put out yet, and they can run high to mid 13s with little or minor work. Part of it's the torque curve, the other part is the much improved rear suspension. That's when he pulls the "you CAN get a 5.0 car down to 13 flat, but that's only if you know how to drive it" crap. Stock gears, stock timing, so on and so forth.
 
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driftingmustang

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Shocker98GT said:
ignorance does exist in our side of the camp too of course. I was talking to a guy at work just yesterday. He claims "The 89 LX GTs are still the fastest Mustangs they ever put out except Shelbys and stuff. You can make them run a 13 flat stock". I'm like they're great cars, but there is no way in hell you're hitting a 13 flat in a stock 5.0 car, 14s is what you'll get. If you up the timing, take off the air silencer, and do the other "freebie" mods plus add some slicks and gears, you may dip into the 13s with EXCELLENT driving, but low 13s is a hell no. The 05 Mustangs are the fastest GT mass production mustangs they've put out yet, and they can run high to mid 13s with little or minor work. Part of it's the torque curve, the other part is the much improved rear suspension. That's when he pulls the "you CAN get a 5.0 car down to 13 flat, but that's only if you know how to drive it" crap. Stock gears, stock timing, so on and so forth.
i admit, i am among the ignorant myself, and that's why i ask so many noobish questions on this site. atleast i dont pretend to act like i know about somthing i dont. i'm out too learn.
 

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Interesting conversation and interesting views. Nice to see rather respectable exchanges on what can be a heated subject.


Now here's an old fart's views....


I watched NOPIvision about 10 times trying to get a grasp on this crowd and understand them, in fairness. During the 10th viewing I almsot threw-up, so I haven't watched it anymore.

1. When these guys (not all, but the NOPI crowd anyways) go to an event to celebrate their cars they go and sit and play video games there. Hhhmm, I haven't done that at any show or race event I have been to. This is usually something done at home.

2. I see 18 year old kids with $60,000 in a car. Seems like that would have made a nice down payment on a house, but Mom and Dad are not that smart either.

3. I see stereo "systems" that cost $10,000 in these cars. I spent $200 on the stereo system in my wife's 1966 Mustang because we have a killer stereo system in the house when she wants to listen to music. I spent about $3,200 building her engine because when she wants to experience being planted in the seat, spinning some tires, have heads turn to see what the heck that is that's coming, she drives the car.

4. Stickers.............'nuff said.

5. Anodized timing gears? Now that is a performance mod if I ever saw one.

6. Turbo timers.......don't get me started.

7. Some of these guys brag about 145 HP after mods (including on Tuner shows). Someone needs to teach them HP to weight ratio.

8. The NOPI sluts. I am all for models.....too bad NOPIvision doesn't have any. If these girls couldn't have a bunch of guys with 70 I.Q.'s drool over them they wouldn't have anything else going for them.

9. Favorite part of the event for the majority of the guys at the "car event".......NOPI chicks and bubbles. Yeah, real car guys.



That's all for now. I could go on all night.


Steve
 

Shocker98GT

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Mr. OAM said:
8. The NOPI sluts. I am all for models.....too bad NOPIvision doesn't have any. If these girls couldn't have a bunch of guys with 70 I.Q.'s drool over them they wouldn't have anything else going for them.

A good female friend of mine is a model and loves NOPI and has posed on quite a few cars herself (McLaren, Ferrari, Maserati, etc.) There are a few very rare exceptions :) Brownie points, sorry
 

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i agree with this being a good arguement, seems like its stilll going smooth. i for one have a slightly different opinion.

im a car guy, have been for awhile, will remain such for the rest of my life i hope. and as a car guy, i have respect for any1 out there with the same interests as myself(building cars, making them look good, racing, w.e if its cars i like it). so i respect most of the import guys around, in fact i applaud alot of them, they have proven that there is a replacement for displacement and thats boost. i like alot of imports such as evos, stis, VWs, s2000s, eclipses, and many more. and i will show alot of respect to any1 who can wrench on their car and build it up to be as fast as can be ON THEIR OWN BUDGET. but on that note, there is a difference between imports and ricers, import vehicles are vehicles from elsewhere, ricers are those POS primerd crxs with a big fart can that have nos stickers and AEM stickers all over their windows. the ricers stage with their rearwheels at the line, and drive through and do burnouts in the water box on their street tires. ricers are the guys who go out and buy the cavaliers and put a big fart can on it and wanna say it gave them 40 hp. those are the people i dislike. they all have their place in the world, maybe its not the same place as u, but neither is the fbody guys.

and i like watching nopi, alot of cool stuff on their until they start showing sound systems.
 

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I don't follow the whole "budget" thing. Hondas usually cost more than a fox Mustang. Newer Honda's definitely cost more than what you can get a good 94-95 5.0 for.

I've seen nothing that shows that 4 banger performance is cheaper than V8 performance. You spend thousands of dollars to keep up with a stock Mustang with gears. :lame:

Paul.
 

Hellion94

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Shocker98GT said:
ignorance does exist in our side of the camp too of course. I was talking to a guy at work just yesterday. He claims "The 89 LX GTs are still the fastest Mustangs they ever put out except Shelbys and stuff. You can make them run a 13 flat stock". I'm like they're great cars, but there is no way in hell you're hitting a 13 flat in a stock 5.0 car, 14s is what you'll get. If you up the timing, take off the air silencer, and do the other "freebie" mods plus add some slicks and gears, you may dip into the 13s with EXCELLENT driving, but low 13s is a hell no. The 05 Mustangs are the fastest GT mass production mustangs they've put out yet, and they can run high to mid 13s with little or minor work. Part of it's the torque curve, the other part is the much improved rear suspension. That's when he pulls the "you CAN get a 5.0 car down to 13 flat, but that's only if you know how to drive it" crap. Stock gears, stock timing, so on and so forth.

I agree with you in that there is ignorance on both sides, but the ignrance that is typical on our side of the coin seems to be much less damaging to the overall car culture than the ignorance on that side of the coin. No one makes movies that feature facts, or display events in the way that they would actually happen. No, instead they make movies that glorify imposibilities and wrong terminology, which kids that don't know any better then interperet as fact. That's the unfortunate part.

Also, the kid you talked to was actualy right. There have been several people that have hit 12's with stock 5 liter 86-93 LX's and GT's. Totally stock engines, with CAI's, pulleys, exhaust, and gears.

Here's a link to a thread, with videos.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=894246&highlight=stock+motor


Here's another very good one:

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=757809&highlight=stock+motor
 

313blkstang

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Let's not be so narrow minded.. They bought what they like and if they show the car culture the proper respect then it should be given in return. As for the NOPI shows I actually like them because it adds to the show overall.. I mean don't get me wrong I love car shows but honestly simply walking and looking at other peoples cars can wear thin after a few hours so in my opinion the bikini contest, video game contest etc just adds more levels to the show. Sometimes we V8 muscle car guys can go overboard but it's really relative.. I say that because when I have conversations with one of my older coworkers that was into the scene back in the 60's he still feels that todays muscle cars can't hold a dime to the one's of his era.
 
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driftingmustang

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Paul said:
The import craze is the reason I can't go streetracing in a quasi-"safe" environment anymore. It's the reason I've had guns pulled on me. It's the reason being a car guy is suddenly a bad thing. It's the reason the cops are after anyone driving anything resembling a performance car.

f**k the import craze. The stupid bastards have had a substantial negative impact on being a car enthusiast.

[/rant]

Paul.
I blame it on the fast and furios,people used to street race in a certain pert of sarasota all the time (imports and domestics, mostley imports) behind some where houses. the cops didnt care and even joined in sometimes. then the movie cameout,people complained and they cracked down on it, even though no one was ever hurt.
 

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