Is it worth getting my motor to run again or should I get a new motor?

FivepointSlow · Dec 20, 2013

To fix my motor or replace it?
As most of you know, and if you don't know refer to my signature and/or build thread, my car was totaled in 2001. It had not run since then until just a few months ago... The damage to the car was minor, but severe enough for the insurance company to throw the towel in. The guy who bought the car after it was totaled bought it to restore, much like myself, but ran out of funds. He had replaced the front bumper, hood, rad support, and the passenger side fender. Both airbags where deployed and other than the body panels the car was untouched. The car was 100% stock when it was wrecked.

No fast forward to me owning it, I bought it not knowing its entire history, I thought it was wrecked in 2007 but that was incorrect. The guy who owned the shop that I bought the car from had bought the car from the guy who tried fixing it up, it sat, then he sold it to me.

To get the car to start I replaced the following:
Fuel tank (w/ grommets and all that)
Fuel pump hanger assembly
Fuel pump
Fuel sending unit
MSD cap and rotor
Ford racing spark plugs
MSD coil pack
New battery
SMOG pump pulley
Radiator overflow tank (accident caused overflow tank to push into the pulley, ruining both)
Cleaned the living hell out of everything air related from the lower intake up, glass blasting the lower and upper intake, threw in a CAI, cleaned out the MAF and other sensors. (PCV was clogged and caused major blow by oil when the car last ran
PCV and its mesh screen

After all of that went into it, I got it to start up only for it to die. It did not idle by itself, needed to keep the foot on the gas for it to stay running. Strange smoke came from under the hood but it was impossible for me to diagnose myself because I had to keep my foot on the gas.. I now realize that my idler pulley was locked up causing the belt to smoke.

And the funnest discovery: A lovely knocking sound coming from the passenger side. Upon further investigation and help from my friend, we found 2 push rods had play in them due to 2 bad rocker arms, and them being OEM they aren't adjustable...

I was also thrilled (heavy, heavy, heavy sarcasm) when I did the first oil change... I literally had to let the car sit overnight for the oil to drain, even though it was in the 70's when I went to change it and I had the car running for about 5 minutes @1500rpm (again, had to keep foot on the gas so thats as low as I could go really) Video of oil down below.. Also, if I keep this motor I will be doing 2 or so more oil changes before the car gets registered just to ensure all that gunk is flushed out.

So now I have a new belt, idler pulley, roller rockers, pushrods, lifters, valve springs, and a cam ready to throw into the car to get it running. I do not know if this will solve my idling problem but it should resolve my engine knock.

I know 5.0 motors are relatively cheap, keep in mind I am on a HIGH SCHOOL LANDSCAPER budget as in I am broke as **** and I only work when it snows.. and lucky me we're having a very very mild winter this year..... So should I try to save my motor with 136,000 miles on it that sat for about 12 years without running, or should I take all the new parts I put on it off, and go find a new motor?

How much would a new motor run me anyways? I have looked and there aren't many by me at all.

Also it should be noted I have plans to go and boost it towards the end of the summer next year (2014).

Videos for reference (my apologies for them being on instagram... I don't have the original videos anymore so I can't upload to youtube or anything.)
Sludgy oil (don't mind the enthusiastic 'awesome')
http://instagram.com/p/dxLDQ5KB6_/
Draining the old oil (keep in mind this is WARM oil.....)
http://instagram.com/p/dpuBOXqB0W/
Idling fits
http://instagram.com/p/dhsQ7OqB18/
You can hear it almost die right before I put my foot on the gas
http://instagram.com/p/dXdBiPqB5v/
First time it started... My dad with the little bit late 'did you check your oil' ....yes dad.. yes I did.
http://instagram.com/p/dNywzXqB5l/

And in case anyone cares. If you let your car sit for 12 years with half a tank of gas in it your hanger assembly might just look like this
http://instagram.com/p/dC5inRqBzf/

TanTop94 · Dec 20, 2013

I guess it really all depends on how easy would it be to get ahold of a new motor that would be something you could just throw in and start. Also if you have the means and know how to do a motor swap, Im not questioning your ability but it is a motor swap lol.

hondarocks61 · Dec 20, 2013

You at least need to drop that pan and clean the chunky shit out by hand. Its not a hard job, I would be slightly concerned for the oil pumps health and that it may be clogged...

SLOW95GTS · Dec 20, 2013

Well If you can, get a good Explorer/Mountaineer motor for under a grand, you wont have to worry about an H/C/I anymore.
OR Sell it, get a better sn95...

FivepointSlow · Dec 21, 2013

Yea I'm gonna see what the oil looks like when I change it in a month or two once I get it running and I might drop the paint and clean it that way.

I have absolutely no experience in pulling a motor let alone doing a swap. However my uncle restored a few 60's mustangs, next door neighbor has been in the car business for 35+ years and my friend has replaced his entire motor 4 times (it's a rotary but still) so I have people willing to help to get it done..

What's the advantages of an explorer motor over the mustangs? Is it just the lower + upper intake?

Noob question: what do you mean by h/c/i

Also I'm in deep with this car and it's actually working out for the better. Am I putting in way too much money into this car than I should have to to get it running? Yes. Am I learning a lot? YOU BETCHA. Learned so much so far from this car I actually don't mind dropping stupid amounts of money into it.

Sent via swagPhone 5.0 using Tapatalk

SLOW95GTS · Dec 21, 2013

The Explorer/Mountaineer motors have gt-40/p's iron cylinder heads, which are on the cobra's, and yes the upper and lower intake. The cam is stock specs but you should be able to put the cam you have but I wouldn't go hydraulic flat tappet when roller is way better for everyday driving.
The only thing I don't like about the car is its past and the money is basically going in the trash if you ever plan on selling it when it has a salvage title.

FivepointSlow · Dec 21, 2013

If I ever DO sell it I will be parting every part of it out and attempt to sell the frame for cheap. If it doesn't sell I'll just bring it to the scrap yard.

I know for a fact as of a few months ago there was several explorers and a mountaineer in a junk yard by me... I'll have to check that out again. What years had the 5.0? I know they where different than the mustangs.

Sent via swagPhone 5.0 using Tapatalk

SLOW95GTS · Dec 21, 2013

96-01 i just look for the ones with the circular headlights and body. If its the early ones they have the Gt-40 non-p's w/ 3 bars on the side of them. These don't require special headers. The earlier ones have GT-40 p heads with a different degree spark plugs which require special headers from ford racing.

Yeah if you swap the motor in and put bolt-ons like throttle body-elbow, pullies, headers, and 14* degree timing, you should have about 260Rwhp./290rwtq. Then you can boost it.

Addermk2 · Dec 21, 2013

It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit, if your poor idle problem was coming from that locked up pulley. I've seen issues like that at my shop. A car comes in that won't turn over, not even with a breaker bar on the crank pulley... I take my knife out and cut the belt off. 4 out of 5 times its a seized pulley.

FivepointSlow · Dec 21, 2013

Addermk2 said:
It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit, if your poor idle problem was coming from that locked up pulley. I've seen issues like that at my shop. A car comes in that won't turn over, not even with a breaker bar on the crank pulley... I take my knife out and cut the belt off. 4 out of 5 times its a seized pulley.

Well it's not as much locked up as it is the bearings are just shot. I can turn it by hand with the belt off but it's a rough turn and I can't spin it fast at all like I can the new one. I'm hoping that is what's causing it though. I'd rather it not be something else lol

Sent via swagPhone 5.0 using Tapatalk

Addermk2 · Dec 21, 2013

Most idle problems on our cars is simply because people over complicate their repair and diagnostic efforts.

RichV · Dec 21, 2013

The other thing is injectors. All that crappy fuel that varnished was in the injectors as well. I would find a stock set and replace those ASAP.

As far as replacing the motor, there's nothing that says it's bad. But you don't know if it's good either. The sludge in the oil needs to be flushed, that would have me a little worried. Whether that motor is salvageable depends on how well it was maintained, an it don't look good on that front. A friend of mine bought a SVO that sat for about 10 years. It did not run until he replaced all the fuel lines, injectors, tank, pump, and a lot of engine gaskets that had rotted/cracked.

FivepointSlow · Dec 21, 2013

Well all the injectors work for sure. All cylinders fire and the car started right away once I got fuel in the system. I started the car about a year ago and it ran for a solid 5 seconds before dying due to there being no fuel delivery. Whatever was in the motor burned and it quit. Once I got the fuel tank and all those goodies in it took a few tries and I had to jump start it after the battery died but it fired up. And on repeated starts it fired up immediately.

Is there anywhere else that the sludge would sit and need to be flushed out from? I already cleaned out under the valve covers because that was the most obvious area. Just grabbed my shop bad and sucked it all up lol. I can drain the oil again and drop the pan. How hard is that?

I just don't want to put effort into getting this motor to work, and then put all the parts I have into the too end just to find out that it sitting for 12 years caused something to happen to the block or something.
I'd love to find a low mileage motor for like $500 out of a explorer or something. But at the same time I'd rather keep my motor and later on swap the intake and heads off a explorer if that's all that's different about them. I can probably get a set if heads for like $100 and the intake for under $200.

Sent via swagPhone 5.0 using Tapatalk

Saint · Dec 21, 2013

SLOW95GTS said:
96-01 i just look for the ones with the circular headlights and body. If its the early ones they have the Gt-40 non-p's w/ 3 bars on the side of them. These don't require special headers. The earlier ones have GT-40 p heads with a different degree spark plugs which require special headers from ford racing.

Yeah if you swap the motor in and put bolt-ons like throttle body-elbow, pullies, headers, and 14* degree timing, you should have about 260Rwhp./290rwtq. Then you can boost it.

Your car is sick...sell me dat

SLOW95GTS · Dec 21, 2013

Saint said:
Your car is sick...sell me dat

My car? If so, thanks man been working on every weekend. Getting ready to put the heads on after I pick up a pro-m mass air meter. check the build thread out.

RichV · Dec 21, 2013

OK, here's what I'd do in your situation.

1. Maybe see about a flush you can do when draining, maybe a little diesel fuel? I've heard kerosene as well. Pop the drains, wait until all the oil is out, pour a little diesel in the oil fill and watch it come out until it's relatively clean.
2. Fill it with some inexpensive oil, new filter, and some oil flush additive.
3. Top off the tank with new fuel, or at least add few gallons, add some B44K fuel system cleaner.
4. Drive it for a good 30 minutes, don't let it die, stay on the gas. Get it good and hot.
5. Change the oil/filter with some good brand, and see if you can monitor the oil pressure with a real gauge. As a rule of thumb, you should have 10psi of oil pressure for every 1000 RPM.

Driving it with the B44K should clean the fuel system as best as you can with a additive. Running it a year ago for 5 seconds didn't do squat. You gotta circulate the fuel through everything, and remember that all the gunk will hopefully get caught by your filter, which will probably need replaced within a few weeks. I'd do it just for insurance.

FivepointSlow · Dec 21, 2013

RichV said:
OK, here's what I'd do in your situation.

1. Maybe see about a flush you can do when draining, maybe a little diesel fuel? I've heard kerosene as well. Pop the drains, wait until all the oil is out, pour a little diesel in the oil fill and watch it come out until it's relatively clean.
2. Fill it with some inexpensive oil, new filter, and some oil flush additive.
3. Top off the tank with new fuel, or at least add few gallons, add some B44K fuel system cleaner.
4. Drive it for a good 30 minutes, don't let it die, stay on the gas. Get it good and hot.
5. Change the oil/filter with some good brand, and see if you can monitor the oil pressure with a real gauge. As a rule of thumb, you should have 10psi of oil pressure for every 1000 RPM.

Driving it with the B44K should clean the fuel system as best as you can with a additive. Running it a year ago for 5 seconds didn't do squat. You gotta circulate the fuel through everything, and remember that all the gunk will hopefully get caught by your filter, which will probably need replaced within a few weeks. I'd do it just for insurance.

Well my car not being registered and all I imagine letting it run in nuetral in my driveway is fine? It's not like I need to get the transmission warmed up or anything lol.

The only problem I heard with the cleaner additive for oil and shit is if it breaks a good size junk of something lose it can cause way more problems...

duh09 · Dec 21, 2013

Do what Rich said. Worst case scenario, you might need a new motor which from the looks of this entire thread, you are halfway expecting to do it. Don't bother modding it until it's running. And you'd do a lot better to take the car for a spin rather than just idling it in the driveway.

FivepointSlow · Dec 21, 2013

duh09 said:
Do what Rich said. Worst case scenario, you might need a new motor which from the looks of this entire thread, you are halfway expecting to do it. Don't bother modding it until it's running. And you'd do a lot better to take the car for a spin rather than just idling it in the driveway.

>not registered

Lol. and it won't be til the spring.