Just a little bit of LED and HID Tech

[B.mad]

Wanted to talk about lighting. Since there is a lot of tech, this is going to be a series.

LED vs HID: https://maddmotorsportsdesign.blog/2017/10/27/led-vs-hid-and-installing-them/
Installing LED:
Installing HID:
What difference does a housing make:
How to make your own retrofits:



What do you know about high bulbs? What about LED or HID? Sparing you the technicalities of each, we are going to dive right into what the differences between LED and HID.
[h=1]LED's[/h]When searching for LED's, you have to consider the following:

1. Beam angle: The beam angle is what the light will cover. For example, if you have a 60* beam angle, it will have a wider "range" than a beam angle of 20*
2. Color Temperature: That is the color of the light. 5500 is usually "pure white". As you go up in temperature, the color turns more blue. As you go down, it turns more yellow to red.
3. LED quantity: How many LED lights the bulb has.
4. Lumens: How bright the bulb is. For reference, a standard factory halogen setup will produce about 1200 lumens.
5. LED type: Newer LED's are SMD.
6. Operating temperature: How much heat the bulbs emit.
7. Lux: The intensity of the illumination.

LED's are more expensive than your standard bulbs. However, they are more efficient, and they are brighter! Main reason to swap over to LED's.


When converting over to LED's for blinkers, you will notice that your blinkers will flash quickly, like they are going out, which is normal. The LED's draw less power than the normal bulbs, resulting in them blinking quickly. How do you fix this? Most people wire in resistors. They put a load on the wire, so that the system doesn't think there is something wrong with the bulb. However, there is a problem. The system is still drawing the same amount of power, which defeats one of the LED's purposes. Also, it will heat up the wire, which isn't good. Instead of wire resistors, you use a LED flasher. Generally, the flasher can be found under the dash/steering wheel area. If you have an older car, you will most likely need to change out the flasher. However, if you have a newer car, you will probably be okay. But if you notice your blinkers flashing faster than normal, then thats a good sign that you need to change your flasher.


LED's will cost you just under $100 for a good name brand headlight kit. The lighting is crisp and deep and the bulbs are efficient. The bulbs have a longer lifespan than HID's. However, because headlights and fog lights need to be bright, these LED's produce more heat. They usually need a fan, so that they do not overheat and melt things. There are new LED's that do not require a fan, however, be careful. These lights may not be that bright (about 1700 lumens), and if they are bright, they will produce more heat. Because HID's are only for headlights and fog lights, its a simple decision to use LED's for all exterior (except headlights and fog lights) and interior lighting. Because exterior lighting is very important, I decided to spend a little (ok, a lot) more money on name brand lighting. For my interior lighting, I got everything from eBay. For comparison, one 194 bulb at Superbrightleds.com cost $5.95, a pack of 10 194-bulbs on eBay cost $3. For all exterior LED lighting, came out to a total of $158.35, including the flasher. If you want to save a lot of money, check out eBay.
[h=1][/h][h=1]Lets talk about HID's. Here are a few things to look at:[/h]

1. Bulb: You need to make sure you have the right size and that you have good housing clearance for the added heat. Also, consider if the bulb comes with a fan or not.
2. Ballast: Regulates the voltage supplied to the capsule of gas.
3. Input: This is measured in watts. More watts is not a good thing. Yes, it MIGHT be brighter, but it is also creates more heat. Which mean the bulb will not last as long, and can be bad for housings. There is a claim that the 55w kits are not really 55w, you are just paying the extra money for it. Also, it is highly recommended to stay with 35w. A standard 35w kit will produce about 2500 lumens, while a true 55w will produce about 3500 lumens. More watts aren't always better.
4. Lumens: How bright the bulb is. For reference, a standard factory halogen setup will produce about 1200 lumens.
5. Color Temperature: That is the color of the light. 5500 is usually "pure white". As you go up in temperature, the color turns more blue. As you go down, it turns more yellow to red.
6. Type of kit: "Plug-and-Play", or cut and splice.

The price for a good name brand headlight kit will cost you over $100. Which is slightly more expensive than the LED kits. There are more moving parts (bulb, ballast), so more can go wrong. Which can make diagnosing harder. The lighting is not as crisp as LED's, and the bulbs are not as efficient. Also, the bulbs do not last as long as LED's.
Because HID's are only for headlights and fog lights, its simple decision to use LED's for all exterior (except headlights and fog lights) and interior lighting. Because exterior lighting is very important, I decided to spend a little (ok, a lot) more money on name brand lighting. For my interior lighting, I got everything from eBay. For comparison, one 194 bulb at Superbrightleds.com cost $5.95, a pack of 10 194-bulbs on eBay cost $3. For all exterior LED lighting, came out to a total of $158.35, including the flasher. If you want to save a lot of money, check out eBay.


Disclaimer: Madd Motorsports does not guarantee performance improvements or other benefits. All information is deem accurate to the best of Madd Motorsports' ability, however, it is not guaranteed. Madd Motorsports or any company mentioned above are not responsible for any injuries, any damage whatsoever, or for incorrect installation. This is a guide meant to help, it is in no way guaranteed. Please keep in mind when using LED or HID bulbs, that you have the proper housing. This will prevent "blinding" of oncoming traffic.

 

[BigBore96]

Lots of good information in one place. Should be a sticky.

You are missing 1 important picture. The cluster with leds and how sweet it looks.

 

[ttocs]

I want to see the spread out in front of the car. Do leds cause everyone to be blinded like hids do in standard housings?

 

[96blak54]

"I want to see the spread out in front of the car."

YES SIR!!!


Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[B.mad]

Lots of good information in one place. Should be a sticky.

You are missing 1 important picture. The cluster with leds and how sweet it looks.

Crap you're right! here it is!

20160212_220523 by brandon madrigal, on Flickr

And the trunk light.

20160212_221948 by brandon madrigal, on Flickr

 

[B.mad]

I want to see the spread out in front of the car. Do leds cause everyone to be blinded like hids do in standard housings?

Yes they do. The issue is the housing itself. You can't put a LED or HID bulb in a halogen housing. I don't know exactly what the science behind it, but I believe its because of the lumens of the bulb. The brighter the bulb, the more it needs to be concentrated, which is why it is highly recommended that you use a projector. There are LED projectors and there are HID projectors. TBH, i don't see that theres much of a difference, maybe just a marketing scheme. But its incredibly easy to do a retrofit. The only problem would be figuring out which projector to use. But I will be taking my headlights apart and measuring, so expect a write up about the housing soon.

And i can easily do a spread, however, its going to be with the Depo projector headlights and HID. Because i no longer have the stock housing. If i can get a hold of a housing for cheap, or someone lets me borrow it i can do some test.

 

[ttocs]

man I am sorry but did I miss the warning that putting these in a cheap or stock housing will not result in everyone going "OH cool HID's!" but instead going "FFFFFFFFFF one of those "I GOTS HIDS DUDE!"" as we are all blind driving towards him??? I see too many people just not give a crap and to see that its being written up as the right way to do it is to just stick it in there is just wrong. Use the right bulb for the right housing or please do not do it.....

 

[B.mad]

man I am sorry but did I miss the warning that putting these in a cheap or stock housing will not result in everyone going "OH cool HID's!" but instead going "FFFFFFFFFF one of those "I GOTS HIDS DUDE!"" as we are all blind driving towards him??? I see too many people just not give a crap and to see that its being written up as the right way to do it is to just stick it in there is just wrong. Use the right bulb for the right housing or please do not do it.....

I didnt say to "just stick it in". This was meant to talk about the differences in the light bulb itself, not the housing. Its almost like you didnt read my response to your other question. Or you knew the answer, but asked anyway for whatever reason....

P.S., Me or anyone else saying IN WRITING to get the right housing isnt going to make someone get the right housing....

 

[ttocs]

if your wanting to give info on the difference in the bulbs, shouldn't it be mentioned? Your expecting people to look at this to gain knowledge but you left out one of the most important parts about HID/LED head lights imo.

 

[B.mad]

if your wanting to give info on the difference in the bulbs, shouldn't it be mentioned? Your expecting people to look at this to gain knowledge but you left out one of the most important parts about HID/LED head lights imo.

I dont expect you to know, but i had something else planned. But again, this is about light bulbs, not housing. If i included info on the housing in the same article, people wouldnt read it because its too long. I think you would have spent less time and energy mentioning it as others have mentioned things in other posts instead of being condescending and asking a question you already knew the answer to.

 

[B.mad]

And if you dont like how I write, you are more than welcome to do your own. You can add what you think is important and relevant.

 

[ttocs]

Your right I did know the answer already, but only because you didn't bother to show the output. For anyone that takes the time to install HIDS/LEDs the money shot is that clean crisp line going across the horizon, not a shot facing the lights. I might be the only one that thinks its probably most important to mention the differences in output needing different housings but I am more willing to bet I am the only one that spoke up at the moment. We all hate the guys that are "bragging" about running HID/LED in the wrong housings as if we needed to know since we have to hold our hands up in front of your car as you drive past us, sorry to tell you.

I support your enthusiasm in writing these informational write ups but IF you are not going to be complete on them with important info why bother as all your doing is supporting and proving your warning at the bottom of it.

 

[B.mad]

Your right I did know the answer already, but only because you didn't bother to show the output. For anyone that takes the time to install HIDS/LEDs the money shot is that clean crisp line going across the horizon, not a shot facing the lights. I might be the only one that thinks its probably most important to mention the differences in output needing different housings but I am more willing to bet I am the only one that spoke up at the moment. We all hate the guys that are "bragging" about running HID/LED in the wrong housings as if we needed to know since we have to hold our hands up in front of your car as you drive past us, sorry to tell you.

I support your enthusiasm in writing these informational write ups but IF you are not going to be complete on them with important info why bother as all your doing is supporting and proving your warning at the bottom of it.

Right, because these photos were taking over 2 years ago. And my car is a part, which means...........my lights arent installed. So, yes, I would love to show the output, but guess what? I cant because I dont have them installed. But I will, and I agree, output is important. Youre the only one that spoke out because you probably misunderstood the point of the post. And because you misunderstood, you threw words into it that arent there. That is not my problem, thats yours.

And I understand this might be an extremely sensitive topic for you, but dont tell me what I should or shouldn't do. You can give your recommendations, and I can consider it, but I will not allow you to govern me when this is not your post. Make your own. However, I do appreciate your support and your weird way of contributing. However, I would recommend that you work on the way you present yourself and perhaps be patient, because the next article about this will be something you would like.

 

[ttocs]

First off let me apologize if you thought I was attacking you and reading back over my words I can see why. I am sure you have heard me complain about my stomach problems well they are 10x worse in the morning and because I know I get upset/short I do not talk to people normally before noon. I think we are both about getting knowledge out there for others to use and things just got twisted, again sorry. On that note though to give recomendations of what led and hid kits fit in our car and not give a warning that simply sticking them into the car is not in their, or more importantly our best interest will just leave you later on wishing that the dude facing you knew better, and maybe then wishing you had included it. Either way, the warning is in there now I guess for the good of us all. Sorry you do not agree with how its in there but if you remember I am a mod on this section and I do take the info on it seriously.

 

[B.mad]

First off let me apologize if you thought I was attacking you and reading back over my words I can see why. I am sure you have heard me complain about my stomach problems well they are 10x worse in the morning and because I know I get upset/short I do not talk to people normally before noon. I think we are both about getting knowledge out there for others to use and things just got twisted, again sorry. On that note though to give recomendations of what led and hid kits fit in our car and not give a warning that simply sticking them into the car is not in their, or more importantly our best interest will just leave you later on wishing that the dude facing you knew better, and maybe then wishing you had included it. Either way, the warning is in there now I guess for the good of us all. Sorry you do not agree with how its in there but if you remember I am a mod on this section and I do take the info on it seriously.

Thats fine, and I dont disagree with you. I do think it is important info, just wanted to save it for a more in dept article and avoid overwhelming the reader. And TBH, I had no idea about your health issues. And I sincerely do wish you the best in getting better. It'll be easy enough to add the disclosure, but again, like I said (and I am not saying you are wrong), the intent of the post was to not focus on the housing. And our back and forth, although a bit twisted, is good info for those who care to read.

And just to add to the whole debate about housing, the proper housing isnt limited to HID or LED. I put some XENON halogen bulbs from CJ Pony Parts, even those scattered the light (stock housing), so in ALL, the stock housing do a terrible job at focusing light. I would get flashed quite often, and thats a halogen light! So, IMO, get rid of the stock housing. So just another reason I wanted it to have its own post.

Hope you get better!

 

[07GtS197]

Id like to add a few things

Hids can last, what really kills them is on/off cycling.

Leds can be friendly in the stock housings, moreso than hids, if you choose the right one. I have a comparison thread on s197forum where I used a few different styles of led headlights with different results. Im actually still running a set in my stock housings and I daily my 07 gt. What makes or breaks a set of leds is the led placement. You need to find one with led chips in the same spot as the corresponding 9007 bulb filament. Our headlights were designed precisely with a filament being in an exact spot. If its not in that spot you will get a different beam pattern and glare. That is whats wrong with hids in stock housings, other than the fact that they put out more light than the stock housings were originally designed for. I have a set of hids in my 02 gt that the previous owner installed. I have been flashed only once. Do I recommend anyone put hids in stock housings, hell no but what I am saying is that because the filament is in a different spot than in a halogen 9007 bulb the beam is different but doesnt cause too much glare in my case. I do plan on swapping to projector housings when I can.

Another thing with leds is that they do heat up but you do not necessarily need a fan. Some use a passive heat sink. My fog lights use fins and they cool just fine though yes they still do get hot. And some other designs I have seen use a few ribbons of metal as a heat sink. This design I have been told is superior because of its greater surface area compared the other designs that use fins. And still others use an active heat sink, a fan. Yes this design moves air across the back of the heat sink but some are designed without a large enough opening around the fan to allow adequite airflow. Also since this design has moving parts it has a fan it can fail causing the light to overheat.

If anyone wants pics I can post some and I can post a link to my thread on s197 if its ok with the mods.

 

[B.mad]

Id like to add a few things

Hids can last, what really kills them is on/off cycling.

Leds can be friendly in the stock housings, moreso than hids, if you choose the right one. I have a comparison thread on s197forum where I used a few different styles of led headlights with different results. Im actually still running a set in my stock housings and I daily my 07 gt. What makes or breaks a set of leds is the led placement. You need to find one with led chips in the same spot as the corresponding 9007 bulb filament. Our headlights were designed precisely with a filament being in an exact spot. If its not in that spot you will get a different beam pattern and glare. That is whats wrong with hids in stock housings, other than the fact that they put out more light than the stock housings were originally designed for. I have a set of hids in my 02 gt that the previous owner installed. I have been flashed only once. Do I recommend anyone put hids in stock housings, hell no but what I am saying is that because the filament is in a different spot than in a halogen 9007 bulb the beam is different but doesnt cause too much glare in my case. I do plan on swapping to projector housings when I can.

Another thing with leds is that they do heat up but you do not necessarily need a fan. Some use a passive heat sink. My fog lights use fins and they cool just fine though yes they still do get hot. And some other designs I have seen use a few ribbons of metal as a heat sink. This design I have been told is superior because of its greater surface area compared the other designs that use fins. And still others use an active heat sink, a fan. Yes this design moves air across the back of the heat sink but some are designed without a large enough opening around the fan to allow adequite airflow. Also since this design has moving parts it has a fan it can fail causing the light to overheat.

If anyone wants pics I can post some and I can post a link to my thread on s197 if its ok with the mods.

I am totally ok with it! I can sure use that info!! Just check with mods because i am not one lol

 

[ForcFed93]

I installed a set of VLED dual beam LED headlights in my stock housings not long ago. They aren't as crisp as a projector housing like you'd see in a brand new vehicle, but they certainly work just as well as stock if not better. One thing I really like about the LED's (at least mine at 6000k) is the way they light up reflective surfaces like signs. You can see them so much further away.

It takes a bit to dial them in. I had to point my housings down just a touch and it's perfect. I've never been flashed, even on an hour and a half drive down a 2 lane highway.

Using the stock housing may not be ideal, like a true projector housing, but they're still well above acceptable.

 

[07GtS197]

Thats because of the placement of the led and the light output. Some do well in stock housings while others do horribly because led placement and light output compared to stock. One thing to keep in mind, my theory anyway, I know we can more easily see yellow lights and with most leds being 6000-6500k which is pure white companies make the leds much brighter to make up for the color difference. Thats just my theory anyway. Ideally they should be plug and play. Hids cant because of filament placement and the immense amount of light they put out. With leds both of those things can be more easily controlled.

Op Ill pm a mod.

 

[ttocs]

the forum is set up to block links from the source but I don't think it does on any other sites and we do not care.