Kenwood, Alpine or Kicker?

Clutch Cargo · May 13, 2023

Planning to have my Mach 460 pulled and install a completely new system. Gonna have it done as I am not the age (or have the time)_ to do it myself, ha! I know I am going with the Kenwood DNX577S double din system with Garmin Nav and has CD/DVD built in still (I have 100's of CDs). Gonna use the Metra double-din kit.

Question is what speakers? Three shops have given three recommendations... Kenwood, Alpine or Kicker speakers. No sub-woofer, don't need it at my age, just a nice upgrade system. Been suggested a one amp, 60watts RMS. Will that do? Be compariable or hopefully a little step up from the OEM sysstem?

So what about those speakers? Listening in the show room don't give them justice I think as to what they will sound like in the car. I was thinking JBLs but all have said that would jack up the $$. So the Kenwood player is $949 alone and I have been quoted from $2300-2600 for install... fair? Just need to choose the speakers. Any personal thoughts or experience with one of those three would be helpful.

ttocs · May 13, 2023

I understand your love of cd's still having them myself, but years ago I started ripping them to mp3 to go on my phone. I have now gone through 2 different libraries pillaging their cd's as I can go in and grab a good 15-20 cd's at a time and ripped them so I have a total of 243 albums on my phone now. You could cut the price of the deck in half if you get rid of the cd/dvd option and you will not lose any sound on 5 x 7s. I have it set up so that all I do is put the disk in the player and if it has not ripped it, it does automatically.

But if not, I understand. For speakers I would take a hard pass on the kicker. They make some good subs and amps but I have never been impressed with their speakers. alpine/kenwood either or really between those two if those are the choices. Follow your ear and go with what you think sounds best since you are the final judge. Sound is subjective and what one person likes another will hate. One of the shops I use to work at sold infinity and I installed a lot of them and never had one I liked. The tweeters were just too rich/loud and made me want to get out of the cars but the people that like their ears bleeding would get in, crank it up and smile for miles...

As for the price if they are getting $100/pair for the speakers that means the deck/speakers/kit/harness should be around 1300ish. What year car is this going into? I ask because on the 94/95 I know there is an easy way to bypass the amps and still use the stock wiring which would not make a difference in sound, but save them from running wires from the deck to each speaker. If they are just counting on running new wire well then there is labor and parts on top of that and it can add up. If it is a 94/95 I am not sure what the standard price is in your area for a deck and 4 speakers but a couple of calls to some competitors on their labor rates would tell you. If it isn't a 94/95 and they are running wires then again it depends on where you are located. I installed in southern indiana were a deck and 4 was $75(20 years ago) and also in Scottsdale where it was closer to your $1300 mark, but it was a brand new 911 twin turbo. The market matters.

96blak54 · May 13, 2023

Im not one to spend big money on aftermarket speakers for the car. All the rattles and road noise cancel any chance for great sound.

white95 · May 13, 2023

I just wish I could hear my radio

I’ve had the same Alpine S type speakers since 2006 and they work alright. Had Focal in my F150 and, for the $350 per pair price point, they offered a very nice audio response.

joemomma · May 15, 2023

Are you saying almost $1k for the head unit plus $2300 for the install, or $2300 for equipment (head unit and speakers/amp) and install? Sounds high to me, but I haven't shopped any installs in years. I've done my own for the last several projects.

Anyway, as far as speakers go - whichever you choose, stay away from the "entry" of any brand. Go up to their middle of the road line at least (for example, with Alpine, I think "E" is their entry and "S" are middle, with "R" being high end).

whiplash473 · May 15, 2023

96blak54 said:
Im not one to spend big money on aftermarket speakers for the car. All the rattles and road noise cancel any chance for great sound.

Great sounds from a studio perspective is true. However, good speakers will still allow much more sound to come through. I have always noticed a huge difference going from factory speakers to aftermarket. This is especially true when listening to CD or Hi-Fi stream.

And Kicker is the bottom of the barrel. Although still better than factory. Alpine and Kenwood are on the same plane.

cobrajeff96 · May 15, 2023

That install price seems way high for a system that isn't complicated. What you're paying for, for the most part, is the wiring. Wiring is always the hardest part of any job especially if it's done right. But that price you got quotes is ridiculous and predatory IMO.

60 watts? You'll be struggling to hear it over the Mustang's own soundtrack. The Mach460 systems had decent sound for their time in they're pushing quite a bit more. A couple hundred watts is what I'd call minimum in these cars.

And FWIW, SN95s absolutely can have good sound, you just need to spend time quieting down the interior. Mainly it's the factory plastic that's held onto sheet metal merely by plastic fir tree fasteners. If you put a little foam tape between the two surfaces, most of your plastic rattles are gone.

badass98svt · May 16, 2023

I run my entire setup off this one amp

Kicker KXA800.5 Car Audio 5 Channel Amp Amplifier 44KXA8005 - Limited Stock | KIC17-44KXA8005-RS

Save on the Kicker KXA800.5 Car Audio 5 Channel Amp Amplifier 44KXA8005 - Limited Stock for 521.96.

www.hifisoundconnection.com

-Kicker 800.5 amp (I have it setup as follows: 50w x4 @ 4 ohms and 400w x1 @ 2 ohms)
-Kenwood DMX9707 receiver
-Focal separates up front
Focal coaxials in the rear
-JL 10w3 in a JL Stealthbox in the trunk
-Noico sound deadening used throughout the entire interior/trunk.

Some notes:
-A single 60w amp isn't going to do much of anything for you.
-Dont bother paying for a radio with GPS. Just use Android Auto / Apple Carplay to project Google maps onto your screen. It's a much better solution than paying an extra $200 for GPS.
-Definitely do some sound deadening if you're up for it. It makes a difference for sure.
-Don't skimp on speakers. You will not be happy.
-Those prices you are paying are beyond astronomical. My Kenwood is a few notches above yours and I paid under $600 for the unit.
$2600 install is crazy for speakers and a receiver.

joemomma · May 16, 2023

Absolutely do not skimp on speakers. I tried to do a "budget" build for the '94, and am on my second set of front components, and considering a 3rd due to harshness in the tweeters.

ttocs · May 16, 2023

focal as mentioned above makes a great speaker, I went with boston acoustics when I replaced them and I am happy with how they sound. As we have mentioned you can save some money on the deck and I would have to agree that if you are going to add an amp go with more power.

Now again for the install prices they vary a LOT just by location but don't go with the cheapest shop you can find as they can do far more damage than good.

Clutch Cargo · Aug 13, 2023

After several months I am finally getting back to my stereo system research. Had more of the engine compartment to complete. I learned a lot from the posts above and I thank you. I still have a few more questions and to answer a few:

First, my Mustang is a 1994 GT convertible. The price of the Kenwood DNX697S Excelon deck is $899. That price was included in the original quote 0f $2300-2500. So it was not on "on top" of that price. So on the original quote that would mean the speakers/amp/wiring/installation was in the range of $1300-$1500.

A few questions:

1) ttocs, you said:

"I ask because on the 94/95 I know there is an easy way to bypass the amps and still use the stock wiring which would not make a difference in sound, but save them from running wires from the deck to each speaker."

Is there an easy way to relate this to the installer? Like a document/diagram you created? I would be curious to see the price drop by how much if they do not have to run wires. And your say running new wires would not have any real impact on sound quality?

2) So reading up on the Mach 460 specs it appears the woofers ran at 85 watts RMS at 6 ohms. So I am now looking to beef up my amp to something like the

Rockford Fosgate R2-500X4 Prime

500-Watt 4-Channel Amplifier 75 watts RMS at 4 ohms

Would you say that would be equivilant power-wise to what was OEM?

3) The Fosgate amp says it can run 4 or 2 ohm. Does that mean I could run a pair of JBL 2.5" mids that are rated at 3 ohms?

4) The speakers will be components (ie: 6x8's in the front lower doors, 5.25-6" round in the back corners). Looking at the typical 1" dome for the front "sails" but then I was thinking of switching the 2.5" in the back to 2.5" mid-range to mid-range/tweets? My thinking is four 1" tweeters will make things just way to "crisp"

5) For speakers, should one not mix brands?

6) Many of the speakers are rated around 50 watts. Does that mean the 75 watt amp will blow these? I would have to buy a higher rated speaker? If so is there "safe" ratio of speaker to amp?

Again, the goal is to give the sound system a nice upgrade/update over the default system. I was plenty impressed with the sound when I bought the car back in '94. Plenty of sound even with the top down. No need for a sub... this is not a daily driver but one I take out on weekend excursions. Maybe to Palm Springs or Las Vegas.

Thanks for any and all input.

ttocs · Aug 13, 2023

tell the installer that there is a standard ford 70-1770 8 pin speaker harness behind the radio that goes from the tweeter amp that is located below the stock radio(be sure to disconnect or remove) and then goes directly to each tweeter. So they can use that as their speaker wires as long as they use the signal wires that go to the tweeters at each speaker location which is not hard to do.

This is where it will probably get a little confusing... Now if you are going to run an amp to the front/rear speakers what they can do to save time is to run the speaker wires for the rear speakers, directly to the rear speakers and connect right to them. At the same time they can run the front speaker for each side and connect it to the speaker wire that use to power the tweeter. That wire as I said goes right back up to the dash to the harness so if they take connect the front and rear + and - speaker wires in the dash, they can now use the signal wires for the tweeters in the doors. So like I said I know it is a little confusing to run the front speaker wires, into the rear stock speaker wires, and then cross them in the dash so it sends the signal to the fronts but if they do this they only have a short run of speaker wires to do from the amp to the rear speakers.

cobrajeff96 · Aug 13, 2023

It's better to have amperage in reserve than to underamp anything, meaning a higher output amp won't blow anything. The speakers, as in all electronic devices, only draw what they need or what they are rated for.

joemomma · Aug 14, 2023

It's really hard to "overpower" a quality speaker, with one exception: distortion. Playing a distorted signal will damage a speaker quicker than anything, regardless of power. As Jeff said, it's better to have power in reserve than be underpowered. Underpowering will tend to lead to playing distortion, which is bad.

Assuming you stick with a quality speaker, the RF amp mentioned above should be fine - it should exceed the factory Mach system if you put it on some decent speakers. I would certainly go with components up front, but in the rear coax will be fine. Without a sub, bass will be lacking, especially in a 'vert.

Clutch Cargo · Aug 15, 2023

ttocs, does the Mach 460 have a tweeter amp? I pulled the radio out (I have no CD player in my system), and I do not see anything that would look like a separate amp up front . I had always thought the 3rd amp was in the OEM radio itself?

ttocs · Aug 15, 2023

yes the tweeter amp is below the radio and I think it is really more of a cross over but it can/will be a power draw and kill batteries. It doesn't look like an amp, it kind of octagon shaped with a bunch of holes in it. Just look straight down the hole where the radio was and it is mounted to the console in front of the blue airbag computer I think it is.