Meth injection?

Discussion in 'General Tech' started by RonBurgandy, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. RonBurgandy

    RonBurgandy Active Member

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    ok well its cheap but may get you jail time.

    No seriously is anyone running a water/meth injection on their car? How ya like it? Is it worth it?

    Sent from your mom's bed
     
  2. Orange 94

    Orange 94 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

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    I'm running meth. I'm using it to cool my supercharger (pre blower) on the v6 since inter-cooling isn't really an option. I ran my setup without meth and then added it on, I've seen a huuuuuge improvement with temperature, the car has responded well with it.


    What are you hoping to run it with? To my knowledge its only useful with boost.


    Keep in mind that meth is another system to fail, don't have your car rely on it without safety features. I have a light on my car that will turn on when the pump turns on, but that doesnt mean its actually spraying. Could be a leak or plug. So my tune will retard if things get too hot. There's some really interesting safety stuff you can buy if you're willing to pay the money. Look into some of the AEM stuff.

    Would I recommend meth? For certain applications definitely. But if you can cool things in a better way I would go that route. My tuner isn't a fan of meth except in cases like mine.

    Also, if your spraying before the supercharger be careful of the coatings. The meth will eat the coating thats on the m112s.
     
  3. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    we just had a group buy on here or a few of us. Just got one for my vortech I am hooking up now. Micheal plummer I think was the person we went through here on the forum. Nice guy that knows his stuff.
     
  4. decipha

    decipha New Member

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    I personally like meth

    I recommend meth for all engines na or boosted, it can ONLY help the engine
     
  5. the.greg

    the.greg Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the gains on a na car are worth it at all. The benefits on a boosted application come from the cooling properties as well as the additional timing you can run with it engaged.

    I used it with a kb 4v. As orange said, its definitely something to be cautious about. If your tune is aggressive and the meth pump fails kaboom.

    I can say that the meth injection line that my snow performance kit used was cracked when I got the car. The only way I found out was by having the car dyno tuned and it came pouring out from under the car when the tuner hit boost and it activated. Fortunately I had only been running 5psi before the tune and it wasn't a big deal. Its not like with nitrous and you can purge, there really isn't much way to tell if its working or not. I had a low fluid level light to indicate when my meth reservior was low on fluid, and also I had a light that would activate to indicate when my meth injection pump was activated. However there would be no warning if the line cracked or the flow was cutoff after the pump.

    As a precaution, I did have my iat sensor relocated the the intake manifold, post blower, which gave me precise iats for the engine to pull timing when it got hot, which with the non-intercooled kb was basically all the time.

    I had a heads up display which told me current iat temperature and mine would rise to 200 degrees on a hot day when I hit boost, usually when the meth turned on it would drop about 50 degrees, however as soon as I was out of boost and the meth deactivated, it would rise right back up. Gotta realize if its your only method of intercooling its more of a on/off switch and you will still get heat soaked. I never had any issues with my setup after I fixed the cracked line. I can say that mine would drip, I think it would leak whatever meth was left in the line after the car was shut off, and it corroded my metal CAI tube so I had to clean the tube occasionally.

    My snow performance meth kit was several years old though, maybe now they have some nicer features, I havent looked into them in a while. I heard some other brands made better kits, but thats all I have personal experience with. I would have preferred a traditional intercooler if that had been an option for my setup.
     
  6. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I was wondering about relocating the AIT sensor as well as adding a intake temp sensor to my aftermarket gauges where the EGR is/was would work and help.
     
  7. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Congrats on your build, setup, and performance. You've done a great job on your car, now put a wing on it :)


    Works great with any power adder including nitrous. And it's very effective on higher compression N/A motors. On stock compression Mustangs, the HP gains will be small but you will be able to run lower octane gasoline, and water/methanol does a great job steam cleaning your engine among a few other things.


    That's why Snow Performance sells Safe Injection. I highly recommend it but most customers don't want to spend the extra $176.00 for it. Some people like to use IAT sensor but when you inject a fluid it's best to use a flow meter aka Safe Injection to monitor for leaks, high or low pressure, and no flow conditions.


    You are very wise, and correct. The light just means flow is being commanded....something I wish they would change. Snow Performance sells a flow gauge which will tell you how much you're actually flowing.


    There was an issue a loooooong time ago on the Ford Lightning trucks because the coatings on the rotors were not right from the factory but since then it has been corrected.
     
  8. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Again, it depends if that N/A car has stock compression or not. Lower octane is an added benefit for a stk. N/A car, and increased gas mileage if you use our MPG/MAX kit. But for the most part, you're correct, it works wonders with power adders.


    As with any performance setup, you need a failsafe, and ours is Safe Injection. It can either reduce boost levels or reduce total timing up to 15 degrees.


    Sorry to hear that but our nylon tubing is very durable. It has a working pressure of 400psi and a burst pressure of 1200psi. It's the same stuff used in commercial trucking application, and on high pressure air bag systems.


    Safe Injection, and/or a flow gauge.


    Like I mentioned above, the light is for what is being commanded.


    Safe Injection, it retails for $176.00. Very surprised because the pump doesn't stop the fluid. Fluid can flow straight thru the pump. So if you had a crack after the pump, all the fluid would drain out the tank and thru the pump.


    Measuring air temperature is another way of doing it but a flow meter aka Safe Injection works way faster, and that's important.


    Correct. But we also have a Stage 3 MPG/MAX system which will inject a small amount of fluid to help increase gas mileage and reduce some of the heat soak.


    Sorry to hear that but our new nozzles have an internal check valve so they shouldn't leak.


    Not sure if I know of another American Water/Methanol company that carries a full product line, is constantly improving their product line, and sells more kits than the next 3 biggest competitors combined.
     
  9. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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  10. the.greg

    the.greg Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't bashing Snow Performance, if thats the impression you got. I Would love to hear more about how Safe Injection works. I read the website which implies that it requires an aftermarket ignition control system to cut timing. So that would be an additional cost necessary, correct?

    Is Safe Injection more effective than relocating the IAT sensor post-blower at pulling timing? How so?

    My line cracked after the pump, but before the injector. It was still getting some fluid through the injector, but most of the fluid was just dripping down from the cracked line.

    The Safe Injection Flow Gauge looks pretty cool, wish I had had that.
     
  11. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    by chance do can you recommend some black tubing?
     
  12. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Q) I wasn't bashing Snow Performance, if thats the impression you got.
    A) No offense taken, just wanted to clear up a few things that is all. I respect your opinion.

    Q) I Would love to hear more about how Safe Injection works. I read the website which implies that it requires an aftermarket ignition control system to cut timing. So that would be an additional cost necessary, correct?
    A) You are correct. Good Performance doesn't come cheap.

    Q) Is Safe Injection more effective than relocating the IAT sensor post-blower at pulling timing? How so?
    A) Because a flow meter can react faster, and you won't need to spend the extra money or time relocating your IAT sensor. Not to mention the cost of the tuner, setting up your parameters for your IAT sensor. Not easy to test your IAT sensor with your water/methanol shutoff.

    Q) My line cracked after the pump, but before the injector. It was still getting some fluid through the injector, but most of the fluid was just dripping down from the cracked line.
    A) Again sorry to hear about your troubles.

    Q) The Safe Injection Flow Gauge looks pretty cool, wish I had had that.
    A) It's nice but not really necessary. Safe Injection is necessary.
     
  13. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Snow Performance has Black or Red tubing.
     
  14. Orange 94

    Orange 94 Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

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    [MENTION=9170]Michael Plummer[/MENTION] what's your opinion on window washer fluid as meth?
     
  15. the.greg

    the.greg Well-Known Member

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    Window washer fluid varies in its water/meth content. For example some is rated to 0degrees, some -20 degrees. The colder the temps its rated for, the stronger the ratio. I was only able to find 0degree fluid when I lived in Atlanta and so I had to "strengthen" the mixture by adding bottles of HEAT, which can be had at autozone as its nearly 100%methanol and will bring the ratio up closer to the "optimal" ratio of 49%methanol and 51%water.

    I did this for a while, but then I found that Snow Performance sells Boost Juice by the 4 gallon case and I started using it which is significantly more convenient and ended up being cheaper for me than mixing up my own.
     
  16. the.greg

    the.greg Well-Known Member

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    Edit:
    The pure methanol I mentioned is spelled HEET, not Heat. And here is some copy/pasted info about using windshield washer fluid that backs up my last post.

    Windshield Washer Fluid
    Windshield washer fluid has quickly become one of the most popular fluids used in water methanol injection systems and for good reason. For starters, it's extremely affordable costing anywhere between $1.00-$1.70 per gallon and can be located in most auto parts stores across the states. [​IMG]Unfortunately, not just any type of windshield washer fluid can be used. When shopping for a windshield washer fluid it's important to find of washer fluid rated for at least -20 degree's below zero as it will contain a large percentage of methanol mixed with water. Additionally, be sure to check the bottle and that it contains methanol as there are some eco-friendly windshield washer fluids rated below zero which do not contain any methanol which you do not want to use. Most washer fluids rated between -20 and -35 degree's below zero contain between 30-40% methanol. When working with a particular windshield wiper fluid it's always a good idea to check it's MSDS sheet as this will tell you exactly what it contains and how much. To do this simply go the manufactures website as they often times list the MSDS sheets on their website or you may do a search on the internet. Its always a good idea to also first check the MSDS sheet of the windshield washer fluid you are going to use to verify exactly what it contains. Some washer fluids will contain additional additives in very small percentages (less then 2%)Heet[​IMG]Found in just about every auto parts store across the states. Heet is a gas-line antifreeze & water remover designed for cold weather starting, preventing gas line freeze ups and for removing moisture from your fuel system. Heet is essentially 12 oz. of pure methanol and works as a great as a kicker to windshield wiper fluid, generally costing only $1.50 per bottle, when users want to increase the methanol content. Basic mixing instructions are as follows. Take for example 1 gallon of negative -20 degree below zero windshield washer fluid, which is approximately 30% methanol 70% water. By adding four 12oz bottles of Heet, to the one gallon of windshield washer fluid will give you a 50/50 mix of water and methanol.


    http://alcoholinjectionsystems.com/...r-Methanol-Injection-System/article_info.html
     
  17. the.greg

    the.greg Well-Known Member

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    Michael Plummer.

    To comment a bit about your post about water/meth. In regards to your statement about Safe Injection being necessary, specifically this portion of your post:
    A) Because a flow meter can react faster, and you won't need to spend the extra money or time relocating your IAT sensor. Not to mention the cost of the tuner, setting up your parameters for your IAT sensor. Not easy to test your IAT sensor with your water/methanol shutoff.

    ^I don't understand how a flow meter works? I'm trying to understand the advantage of Safe Injection to relocating the IAT sensor. Are you saying that your kits do not require a tune/tuner if I was to use the Safe Injection flow meter? Where is this flow meter installed on the vehicle?

    I had my car tuned with a older Snow Performance kit and all I had to do was relocate the IAT sensor, by simply tapping a bung into the kenne bell lower intake manifold and screwing in a Ford Lightning IAT sensor(which is only necessary because the stock sn95 mustang IAT sensor is plastic and the Lightning unit is metal and wont melt in the heat like the plastic one will). There was no additional calibrating of IAT sensor or parameters of any kind?

    Mind clarifying this for me?
     
  18. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Windshield Washer fluid: First of all windshield washer fluid is not regulated so the methanol content will vary from gallon to gallon. Only use windshield washer fluid if it is blue in color and rated for -20 deg F. It should have no special additives. This means it is safe to use and made of about 30% methanol, 70% water. If it is another color or another temperature rating, do not use it. You can “spike” your Blue -20 Washer fluid to a 50% mixture by adding (3) 12OZ yellow bottles of Heet® gas-line-antifreeze to every gallon of washer fluid.
     
  19. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    ^Q) I don't understand how a flow meter works?
    A) A flow meter measures actual flow of the fluid you're using. Many different types of flow meters, and that is all I can say.

    Q) I'm trying to understand the advantage of Safe Injection to relocating the IAT sensor. Are you saying that your kits do not require a tune/tuner if I was to use the Safe Injection flow meter? Where is this flow meter installed on the vehicle?
    A) Like I stated before, you can use an AIT sensor and that's fine but Safe Injection can be setup to measure a certain threshold of fluid, and you can dial in how fast the unit responds to your threshold. And no you don't need a tuner to setup Safe Injection.

    Q) I had my car tuned with a older Snow Performance kit and all I had to do was relocate the IAT sensor, by simply tapping a bung into the kenne bell lower intake manifold and screwing in a Ford Lightning IAT sensor(which is only necessary because the stock sn95 mustang IAT sensor is plastic and the Lightning unit is metal and wont melt in the heat like the plastic one will). There was no additional calibrating of IAT sensor or parameters of any kind?
    A) Your tuner had to decide what temperature to remove timing, and how much. Does he have a data log of how hot your IAT's get during your summer months vs. winter months. If you increase boost or change your supercharger you will need to have those values adjusted? An S trim at 10psi vs. a YSi at 20 psi is a huge difference in IAT. Again, nothing wrong with doing it that way, but any company that doesn't sell a Failsafe will ALWAYS tell you Safe Injection is not needed.

    Greg or anyone else, if it's easier feel free to call me at 617-347-3146
     
  20. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I can't seem to find much info on where the nozzle should be but a bunch of places people have put them. I just want to make sure its in the right place and will not cause any problems. I see there is a flat spot on the back of my superchargers output that could be used for this or a temp sensor. Otherwise on my vortech it has a short run between the charger and the upper intake and not sure it would be ideal to mount it on the plastic tube that goes between them. Finally there is the EGR spot that I am removing that could be used as well.

    Anyone have a black cable that they will trade for a red one?