moates and other tuners get in here for a sec

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by ttocs, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I have been going around/around on what way to handle my tuning after its back together. I have one tuner about 45 mins away that I have heard enough mixed results about to scare me and other then that I am looking at a 3+hr one way trip to another tuner. My gauges have the ability to data log and I have always enjoyed tweeking my stereo's controls to the point I could see myself getting into tuning it myself if I could get the right place to start with some good info. Who here does their own tuning and what system do you use/recommend? I have heard a lot of good stuff about moats and have been checking into their systems but I really don't know much to know what is good/bad or what I would need?

    I need the tuning as my car will be a stock bottom end 302, 90 mm maf, 75mm tb ported/polished/ceramic coated cobra upper/lower, trickflow twisted wedge 170 heads and a TF stage 1 cam, JBA ceramic coated headers, magnaflow high flow catted X pipe and dynamax mufflers. I have a 255lph fuel pump, accufab adjustable FPR ad 42 lb injectors and snow meth kit
     
  2. ReplicaR

    ReplicaR Well-Known Member

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    My MOATS experience was tainted by a shitty tuner who spent 6 hours on the dyno, and didn't yield good power numbers or a car that can make one WOT pass. As far as I remember it's freeware, which is why some of the cheaper shops use it. I've had Diablo and SCT afterwards, very happy with both. Currently running SCT, because that's what my tuner uses, he did fantastic work. If you have a chance, find AEM plug in stand alone. They made one specifically for 94-95 Mustang, but they've been out of production for a little bit, so finding one may be hard. AEM piece is amazing though, MOATS doesn't hold a candle to it. Not even close.

    Edit: Something else worth mentioning. You have a fairly standard combination of parts, which should be a no brainer to tune correctly. Do the research, find a good tuner, he should have it up in a few hours.
     
  3. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I have Anderson ford 4 hrs west and some good people in Louisville 3 hrs east but with my stomach problems I do not travel well at all. I generally wake up feeling like crap every morning and if I am lucky around 12 or 1 it starts to clear up. I would have not even hesitated for a second to make that drive before but with never knowing if I will get sick makes it harder then just needing to take ANY food I would need on the trip since I can't stop and eat just anywhere. Then Take into account if I am feeling bad and can't go straight back then I might need enough food for 2 days. It sucks as I love to travel....


    The little bit I looked into moates there are a number of programs that work with it from free to expensive and I imagine you get what you pay for.
     
  4. chris91

    chris91 Well-Known Member

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    How far from Cincy are you Scott? We have a KICKASS Ford tuner here that has put out some amazing cars. Almost everyone on our local forum uses him and there hasn't been one bad review on him. He really goes outta his way to make sure the customers cars leave perfect. If you want to look him up its S&M Motorsports.

    http://www.sandmmotorsports.net/
     
  5. kb1982

    kb1982 Active Member

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    If your getting it tuned, use whatever the tuner prefers. Blankenship is highly regarded among the Ford community. I use a Megasquirt PnP on my car. Its not really a great option for anyone that isnt wanting to learn about tuning and understanding fuel injection though. Many people have bought it, not been able to get their car to run right, and then sell it. Its a system that you will get out what you put in.
     
  6. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    I used moates.. i like it. . You will will spend the money on the QH and software as you will on a tune. . There it's shit load of info out there for it. Dedicated forum for it. . I never finish tuning my 95 but it's ready not that complicated. .
     
  7. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Tuning, tuning, tuning. Do it yourself or have someone do it for you? Let's start with this, two ways to go about tuning, Mass Air or Speed Density. The difference between these systems is how they go about getting the air mass value. This is why the classic debate over which system is better (Mass Air vs. Speed Density) is completely ridiculous. It's really just a matter of what method you are using to come up with the air mass value, and whether or not that value is accurate (this is very important).

    Personally not a big fan of Speed Density systems and the reason why I use a Mass Air based Engine Management System from Pro-M EFI is you will not find an easier system to get your car up and running correctly than this one. Expensive? Yes but you get OEM quality, OEM drivability, OEM reliability and software written by Ford Engineers with this system and no other Engine Management System can make that claim. At your HP level, I would continue to use a add-on chip from SCT or Diablo until you start to make HP numbers where larger injectors like 72lbs or larger are needed.
     
  8. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    First off mike let me thank you for this response and the others on my other post, as well as the many other questions you answered about the meth kit.


    The little bit of reading I did on speed density/vs mass air a while back and went MAF. It seemed about the same as the record vs digital music arguments that are comical at best. I am not sure I remember anyone recommending any other maf other then the lightning, what size/brand do you like/recommend? I currently have the sct chip and had it dyno tuned last time by a tuner that is no longer in town unfortunately and like I have said before even short 2-3 hr trips can be a pia.

    RZ you too have answered many many questions from me over the years and unfortunately all I can do is say thank you.

    Do you remember what software you used or which editor/emulator you used? And finally is there anything like crossing the streams that would be a very very bad thing to do and should never ever be done?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  9. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    Binary editor and eec analyzer..
    If you choose this way... just read read read. . Go to our tuning section.. there is a threat with some links for tuning with moates..
     
  10. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    If you go this way. I can send you my tune to get you started.. i would have to find the info for the 42's and the transfer function for your maf.. i ran 80's and slot style maf.. the rest would be on you. .
     
  11. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    The more I think about it the more I like the idea. Like I said 4-6 hrs of round trip traveling for a tuner is hard for me but I have the time to read/study/learn.
     
  12. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    If you decide to do it. Hit me up and I'll you send mine. . I'll need to know the numbers on the maf you got. . It's a part number on the element.. see if i can find the right transfer function for it. And the 42's are they the fat green ones? Its not 100% but it will save you some time. Good starting point. I never fished before i tore the car apart and never put it back together. .
     
  13. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    I would owe you a few more favors for any help you can give on this. How about I put you on the Christmas card/fruit cake list! Its been a while since I looked at the injectors but fat green does sound familiar. I will look it all up asap when I get home. Suckin on an IV again but hoping to go home today.
     
  14. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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    Ha. no prob. . When ever your ready send me your email and I'll email you my tune. .
     
  15. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

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    an recommendations as where to get it all from?
     
  16. rz5.0

    rz5.0 Legend

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  17. Michael Plummer

    Michael Plummer Active Member

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    Let's start with the Lightning Mass Air Meter: When used in their stock configuration (stk. air box, flange, etc.) they work well. The calibration range for these meters is approx. 1800kg/hr before 5vdc and this equates to approx. 500HP in a perfect world. Now the issues, when used in an application that is not stock. The housing is not an efficient design, tonsil style sensor element in the middle taking up space and a straight cut flange with no bellmouth which reduces air flow thru the meter. A 80mm Pro-M meter outflows the 90mm Lightning meter and the 80mm Pro-M unit is good for 800HP vs. the 500HP for the Lightning meter.

    A better choice would of been either the 80mm or 92mm Pro-M meters. Seeing that you're using an Anderson power pipe, the 92mm mates up nicely because their both 4" but the 80mm would still work better the 90mm Lightning meter. This combo has the potential of making 500rwhp but the injectors, fuel pump and Lightning meter will hold it back. Granted with your stk. block you'll need to scale things down to a safer limit anyways but if you want 400rwhp those 3 parts will be a hindrance.

    Quick note on your engine management vs. chip, your setup isn't complicated and someone like Mike Post could handle your tuning needs via mail order. Either way, good luck with whatever you decide.
     
  18. white95

    white95 Apex Junky Admin

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  19. JKady

    JKady Active Member

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    diyautotune.com is building plug and play Megasquirt2/MS2 pro setups for the 94-95 cars. They have a lot of tuning capability and a smaller learning curve that QH does, they even have an auto-tune option if you're running a wideband (which you oughta be if you're that deep in a build) to get it pretty close. Most guys I've discussed them with say they've had their cars idling and running down the road in 10-20 minutes after install.
     
  20. duh09

    duh09 Legend

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    I have never like the idea of auto-tune. A buddy of mine put together a turbo miata (with no real knowledge of what he was doing mind you) and ran a Megasquirt combo that came with the car and used the autotune feature. Motor was toast within 3 weeks of being boosted.


    Scott, if I'm not mistaken I believe you can play with Binary Editor and EEC Analyzer for free to sort of get a feel for the layout and the sort of things you'll be looking at once it's together. You can't use the software to actual edit any data but I found it a lot easier to read information about tuning while having the software pulled up and being able to look at it. I wanted to try tuning my Mustang myself back in the day but that car def hit the backburner and has stayed there so that may not be an available option anymore but it's an idea at least.