New clutch nightmare / Clutch build thread

Redbone

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Not to add more confusion to your repair... I just measured a Ford flywheel and an Exedy flywheel and the Exedy is thinner , but not by much. Then I measured the pressure plates and they have different mounting fingers heights for the TOB but when measured with the bearing both came out the same at 3.500 static height. Now the clutch disks come a little different thickness but not enough to make me worry, the main distance is 3.500" and when mounted there will be some compression of the PP down on the disk so the 3.500" distance will be less. The adjustable cable will take up the compression distance and all should be good??? I saw another thread about adding an extra return spring to the cable at the clutch fork to stop the TOB from constant wear that will add some play to the pedal. I got pictures if you want them but after all the effort most people just slam everything together and it all works, I am trying to find a problem that may not exist because of the problems before mixing Ford and Exedy parts.

I used an Exedy pressure plate with a RAM flywheel when I rebuilt the clutch on my 2000 Mustang GT. Upon installation the new clutch would not disengage. Before I tore it all back down I did an internet search on Exedy. Exedy is cheap junk made in China used mostly by Nissan and Toyota, at least according to my Google search. There are many reported problems of new installations failing to disengage when using both Exedy pressure plates and flywheels. My advice is to go with RAM or McLeod, get the Ford racing throw out bearing and flywheel studs, and replace the fork and its pivot stud and the pilot bearing. Be aware that the throwout bearing is asymmetrical and only installs in one position. But who knows, most Exedy installs go fine. To their credit American Muscle accepted the Exedy PP return and I got a RAM PP which worked and is still working perfectly. I did a better install the second time around and it took about half the time, of course the nuts and bolts were all broken free then.

In retrospect I believe that the Exedy PP has poor quality control, typical of parts manufactured in China. I also added a Home Depot compression spring over the clutch cable between the bell housing and the fork to keep the throwout bearing from riding. You can adjust the clutch feel a bit with the size of this spring. Of course you need the non-adjustable (Steeda) quadrant and firewall adjuster with the Steeda clutch cable or equivalent. I currently have a 2016 GT with the hydraulic clutch, an entirely different beast with entirely different problems.
 
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Swapfox2145

Swapfox2145

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Not to add more confusion to your repair... I just measured a Ford flywheel and an Exedy flywheel and the Exedy is thinner , but not by much. Then I measured the pressure plates and they have different mounting fingers heights for the TOB but when measured with the bearing both came out the same at 3.500 static height. Now the clutch disks come a little different thickness but not enough to make me worry, the main distance is 3.500" and when mounted there will be some compression of the PP down on the disk so the 3.500" distance will be less. The adjustable cable will take up the compression distance and all should be good??? I saw another thread about adding an extra return spring to the cable at the clutch fork to stop the TOB from constant wear that will add some play to the pedal. I got pictures if you want them but after all the effort most people just slam everything together and it all works, I am trying to find a problem that may not exist because of the problems before mixing Ford and Exedy parts.

I called and had the exedy tech double check the parts aswell as called american muscle to make sure everything would be compatible at this point in the thread everything is ordered and on the way so if there are any issues I will just have to send parts back but I think everything will be ok many people have verified the parts here and the actual companies. From my understanding the mach 350 is meant to work with a stock flywheel that was the purpose of that clutch kit to be an incremental upgrade according to exedy. Thanks the for the advice but I have been worrying for 2 months now about this clutch until I run into an issue I am just gonna relax and take the advice I got and see where it goes. If there are any issues I can swap the parts out as everything was just bought and shipped. If you would like you can post the pictures never hurts to have points of reference. I actually went to home depot and got the pvc and spring for a freeplay kit when I was having issues so if need be I can throw that on while im in there.

I used an Exedy pressure plate with a RAM flywheel when I rebuilt the clutch on my 2000 Mustang GT. Upon installation the new clutch would not disengage. Before I tore it all back down I did an internet search on Exedy. Exedy is cheap junk made in China used mostly by Nissan and Toyota, at least according to my Google search. There are many reported problems of new installations failing to disengage when using both Exedy pressure plates and flywheels. My advice is to go with RAM or McLeod, get the Ford racing throw out bearing and flywheel studs, and replace the fork and its pivot stud and the pilot bearing. Be aware that the throwout bearing is asymmetrical and only installs in one position. But who knows, most Exedy installs go fine. To their credit American Muscle accepted the Exedy PP return and I got a RAM PP which worked and is still working perfectly. I did a better install the second time around and it took about half the time, of course the nuts and bolts were all broken free then.

In retrospect I believe that the Exedy PP has poor quality control, typical of parts manufactured in China. I also added a Home Depot compression spring over the clutch cable between the bell housing and the fork to keep the throwout bearing from riding. You can adjust the clutch feel a bit with the size of this spring. Of course you need the non-adjustable (Steeda) quadrant and firewall adjuster with the Steeda clutch cable or equivalent. I currently have a 2016 GT with the hydraulic clutch, an entirely different beast with entirely different problems.

It's funny I had a mcleod clutch picked out at first but decided on exedy because of the raving reviews online and I had alot to buy and wanted to make sure I had extra incase of issues so I got the exedy. I really don't think it's gonna be that bad tbh from what I have read these newer mach 350 stage 1 clutches are pretty decent compared to the crap warped flywheel I have now and luk 07-042 stock clutch kit they couldn't align properly twice. I already have a new pivot ball, clutch fork, stock cable, and with these components it should rehab everything form pedal back. I have been watching a ton of install and writeups and hyper aware of the tob postioning so it can move and not lock up. My clutch has been torn apart 3 times by the shop that did a bad job and I hope everything isn't super tight but I prepared and have pb blaster and new air sockets and all sorts of stuff to make this easier. From my understanding the tob is supposed to have a little pre load on the pressure plate it seems like everyone online has a different opinion on that subject I could never find a straight answer but after swapped the new stock cable over the bbk adjustable it has a little preload now on this stock install they did. I already have a firewall adjuster and quadrant I refuse to do another adjustable cable maximum motorsports is correct they are inferior to the stock cable and I can use that along with the hooks on my qaudrant and firewall adaptor to adjust what I need to. I can also use the freeplay kit I put together to make sure the tob isn't riding. It's funny though everyones opinion is different you will get great answers from both camps all over google. The tob is supposed to ride because xyz and it's not supposed to because xyz. Either way I have spent enough time freaking out about this car and probably knocked a couple years off my life from the stress so everything is new if there are any issues I am ready to spend more money or whatever I need to do but at this current time the manufactures have verified compatibility so that's what I am going off. Just a tad late I just ordered last friday. Also for you're issue ram specifically states that you must use their flywheel as to where exedy verified my two parts compatibility before I ordered.
 

Redbone

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You'll be fine, you're young, just don't force anything taking it apart or over tighten everything putting it back together. If in doubt go get a glass of ice tea, not a bigger hammer. Not everything that you read on the internet is going to be correct. TOBs should never ride the PP, period. Ford did that on the GTs simply for ease of maintenance. We need to remember that Ford is in the business of making and selling cars, not getting them to last for decades. The new GTs (>2015) have a redesigned pedal spring specifically designed to keep the TOB from riding. I've forgotten now about the cable but I think that you are right, the stock cable is way more robust than the Steeda. If I recall correctly, the stock cable has a rubber grommet on the firewall end that can be pried off allowing the cable to fit into the firewall adapter. You definitely want the non-adjustable quadrant. I removed the exhaust and H pipe and it made the job a lot easier. You'll need a good selection of 1/2" extensions and sockets with impact swivel joints and deep dish sockets to get the exhaust and bell housing bolts. Six sided sockets only, no 12 sided and the 1/2" stuff gets a better grip and torque. But if you're strong and careful you can probably get by with 3/8" sockets. Remember to use copper based anti-seize when re-assembling. The starter is a real *****, I can't remember now but I think that there is a bell housing bolt there that is quite difficult to reach. I used a long 3/8" extension and came in from the radiator. The two longer bell housing bolts do not go on top! They go in the longer bell housing shafts next to the alignment studs. On an old GT check the rear main carefully for leakage, its a $2 job with the trans out. The O2 sensor wires and clips are also a real ***** when putting it back together, I had to hold them up and out of the way with twine until the trans/bell housing was back in place. And the sheet metal spacer is kinda tricky too, but if taken slowly it all goes back together pretty well. Good luck and take your time.
 
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Swapfox2145

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You'll be fine, you're young, just don't force anything taking it apart or over tighten everything putting it back together. If in doubt go get a glass of ice tea, not a bigger hammer. Not everything that you read on the internet is going to be correct. TOBs should never ride the PP, period. Ford did that on the GTs simply for ease of maintenance. We need to remember that Ford is in the business of making and selling cars, not getting them to last for decades. The new GTs (>2015) have a redesigned pedal spring specifically designed to keep the TOB from riding. I've forgotten now about the cable but I think that you are right, the stock cable is way more robust than the Steeda. If I recall correctly, the stock cable has a rubber grommet on the firewall end that can be pried off allowing the cable to fit into the firewall adapter. You definitely want the non-adjustable quadrant. I removed the exhaust and H pipe and it made the job a lot easier. You'll need a good selection of 1/2" extensions and sockets with impact swivel joints and deep dish sockets to get the exhaust and bell housing bolts. Six sided sockets only, no 12 sided and the 1/2" stuff gets a better grip and torque. But if you're strong and careful you can probably get by with 3/8" sockets. Remember to use copper based anti-seize when re-assembling. The starter is a real *****, I can't remember now but I think that there is a bell housing bolt there that is quite difficult to reach. I used a long 3/8" extension and came in from the radiator. The two longer bell housing bolts do not go on top! They go in the longer bell housing shafts next to the alignment studs. On an old GT check the rear main carefully for leakage, its a $2 job with the trans out. The O2 sensor wires and clips are also a real ***** when putting it back together, I had to hold them up and out of the way with twine until the trans/bell housing was back in place. And the sheet metal spacer is kinda tricky too, but if taken slowly it all goes back together pretty well. Good luck and take your time.

That's what I figured there is a ton of info online so I double checked before I started ordering with the manufactures. I have more then enough time to make sure I do it right so I'm not gonna rush and just take it easy redoing this install as I don't want to have to go back in once it's finished. Thanks for clearing the tob thing up I have a freeplay kit so I will install that if I have any contact with the PP. You are correct I am going to take that plastic off the end of the stock cable and use my firewall adapter and quadrant but first I just want to make sure my install is good and troubleshoot those parts seperately as the shop I originally went to had no idea what they were doing and never got the aftermarket parts to work correctly. They had great reviews and seemed confident but it turned out terrible. I plan to take the exhaust off aswell. I have a great selection of 6 point sockets and just got some 12 point, universal swivels, extensions, all are 1/2 and basically everything from this guide for tools:

http://www.americanmuscle.com/ram-aluminum-flywheel-t45-cust-install.html

I just snagged some anti seize today aswell as towels and brake cleaner to make sure every surface is clean before going back together. I have heard of this starter many times hahaha I am hoping mine isn't to bad but I saw a nice tip to go from the front with a ton of extensions to get that third bolt up top from this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-9Zr9JZPlM

I plan to sag the engine a little to allow ease of access to the top bellhousing bolts like in the video above aswell. I got a great tip earlier in the thread about those bellhousing bolts laying them on a rag outside the vehicle as they come out to keep orientation proper of the bolts. I plan to take bolts out and if possible put them in their locations and I will be taking lots of pics and maybe shooting a video of the replacement. The shop that originally did the firs two installs was supposed to change the rear main seal so I am going to be going back to him for a refund when I deliver his clutch kit if it's not changed out I will be getting a new one for sure as it's not worth it to skimp at all in this scenario. That twine idea isn't a bad idea to keep all that out of the way of the tranny going back in thanks. I just got a new bellhousing spacer plate as I have a little starter rumble so I figured just replace it and if need be get a new starter aswell to sort any issues out. Do you think it would be a good idea to paint the space plate while I am waiting for the rest of my parts to avoid rust? Thanks for all the advice every little bit counts as this is my first clutch job but I feel confident bought whatever I needed and made sure to get good parts so I am hoping with this new flywheel especially to rid my car of the vibration I am having while accelerating from that shops installs. My car never did it before so I am confident the flywheel is scrap as it's been turned twice very primitively. I am just gonna take my time and do it right I really appreciate all the advice thanks alot for taking the time to write this up.
 

OLD H2S

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The disengagement problem comes from the length of the stroke to the arm and it is not just Exedy, Centerforce has the problem too and it comes from the design. Diaphragm type PP have multiple small fingers, like 12 and the design if "over stroked" will stick because there is no back pressure to return the fingers to the relaxed position. The original design was a 3 finger type and they are 120 degrees apart and do not crowd together when the PP is over stoked. I am not an expert... but my pony is on clutch NUMBER 6, my trans is held in with Velcro. I bought the car new for the wife and she is a car killer and after 21 years the only thing she could kill on the Mustang is the clutch. I have spent much time studying part numbers trying to find the best system, I'm still looking. I just happen to have just pulled the trans. for a rebuild and have all the parts out for measuring. This time I am using the same setup as you are but with a corresponding Exedy lightweight flywheel so between the 2 of us it will be a good test. I plan to beat the crap out of mine so I did not go overkill this time.
 

Redbone

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The AM link is pretty good, covers most of the install but glosses over the difficult stuff like the O2 sensors. I particularly like the custom made trans jack. I bought the $100 Harbor Freight one and it worked fine but was a bit unwieldy. OLD H2S has it now for safe keeping. If you are young and strong you don't even need a trans jack. I can remember lying on my back under a 1969 GTX and wrestling out that old 4 speed, wondering just how much it really weighed and if it was going to crush me.

guide-34009-34008-60009g99-60012g99-cust-25.jpg


In the above picture is where I put a compression spring between the bell housing and the fork, it works real well to keep the TO bearing off of the PP.

Also, make sure you have a 3/8" and 1/2" impact swivel, they are far superior to the square universal swivels.

spin_prod_725370001


Also I think that it is a good idea to replace the flywheel bolts with Ford Racing ones, it's good cheap insurance.
 
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Swapfox2145

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The disengagement problem comes from the length of the stroke to the arm and it is not just Exedy, Centerforce has the problem too and it comes from the design. Diaphragm type PP have multiple small fingers, like 12 and the design if "over stroked" will stick because there is no back pressure to return the fingers to the relaxed position. The original design was a 3 finger type and they are 120 degrees apart and do not crowd together when the PP is over stoked. I am not an expert... but my pony is on clutch NUMBER 6, my trans is held in with Velcro. I bought the car new for the wife and she is a car killer and after 21 years the only thing she could kill on the Mustang is the clutch. I have spent much time studying part numbers trying to find the best system, I'm still looking. I just happen to have just pulled the trans. for a rebuild and have all the parts out for measuring. This time I am using the same setup as you are but with a corresponding Exedy lightweight flywheel so between the 2 of us it will be a good test. I plan to beat the crap out of mine so I did not go overkill this time.

Well hopefully i don't have any of those issues...You're experience is pretty valuable thanks for taking the time to write it up every bit helps I am just waiting on tools at this point and my flywheel. Between us this should be a pretty good comparison of compatibility you with the exedy flywheel and me with the ford flywheel. I don't really beat on my car just yet as I want to finish it all up and start taking it to the track eventually this is my first project car and I have learned a ton and I am glad it's been on my mustangs. Once I knock this out I am going to be doing the lady's clutch when it's time comes aswell and it should be pretty similar her's is a 2000.

The AM link is pretty good, covers most of the install but glosses over the difficult stuff like the O2 sensors. I particularly like the custom made trans jack. I bought the $100 Harbor Freight one and it worked fine but was a bit unwieldy. OLD H2S has it now for safe keeping. If you are young and strong you don't even need a trans jack. I can remember lying on my back under a 1969 GTX and wrestling out that old 4 speed, wondering just how much it really weighed and if it was going to crush me.
In the above picture is where I put a compression spring between the bell housing and the fork, it works real well to keep the TO bearing off of the PP.
Also, make sure you have a 3/8" and 1/2" impact swivel, they are far superior to the square universal swivels.
Also I think that it is a good idea to replace the flywheel bolts with Ford Racing ones, it's good cheap insurance.

Ya it's a pretty quick dirty guide I have been watching a ton of clutchs on youtube and feel ready can't wait for the rest of my parts to roll in clutch came today and she's a beaut. Haha I can just picture myself under there throwing my back out for the first time without the trans jack lol. Ya I got the pvc and spring for the freeplay kit that goes inbetween the bellhousing and clutch fork so If I see any contact on the tob to the pp then I will make sure to just throw it on right away as I don't want any issues with this install. I just upgraded my tools and got a 1/2 impact swivel and a three pack of the universals. I will have to see if I can get some of those bolts out here monday looks like the last delivery day stuff is coming in between then and now. Here is a pic of the mach 350 stage 1 it's a pretty decent looking part I don't have any worries and think this should be a good install. I drove my car today and the tob from their 2nd install is already making noises, now that I know the tob is supposed to be off the pp it is probably due to the constant contact.

htzb0g.jpg
 

Redbone

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I strongly recommend not using the Exedy TOB. Get a Ford Performance one. The new GTs come from the factory with Ford Dual Clutch Fluid, I've used it and it's good, I'd recommend that as well. Of course OLD H2S will recommend AMSOIL. Tasca parts in NJ is a good source of OEM stuff.



00f501274099efa01303e8ef68b1c47f.jpg
 

96laseredcobra

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I love my exedy mach 350. No issues at all . At 850 miles in.

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OLD H2S

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Stirring the pot..
Why yes I did just get back from the Amsoil distributor with my load of Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid (code MTF) and it does not carry any Ford certifications. It does carry Tremec certs. T4 through TR 3550 and TKO 600. My trans is a normal T45 but the correct designation according to the Tremec tag hanging off the trans is T 3645.
I asked the Amsoil guy about the Ford Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid and he said "we've had it out for over a year" (code DCT), Ford cert.WSS-M2C-936-A
do I want any?
Decisions decisions...
 
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Swapfox2145

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Alright guys last update tomorrow my transmission jack is arriving but my flywheel and extensions and everything else I ordered are here. I cleaned both the cars today and got some updated pics of them for the forum after the tire shine and clean. Flywheel looks good pressure plate fits on it and everything looks smooth I start the clutch job tomorrow I am hoping to get it done easily but am gonna take my time and take pics for everyone while I am installing it. Here are some new pics for everyone enjoy! these tools are just what I bought for this install I have an assortment of jacks and jackstands aswell as a big 6 drawer craftsman tool box I have been building up over the past 6 years.

2h89yzo.jpg

2lv0p44.jpg

1zn91yv.jpg

2ce0rit.jpg

3025q4p.jpg
 
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Swapfox2145

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Alright so I got quite a bit done today and there were some buggers but not to many first issue I ran into was transmission cross member was so over tightened I had to go get a bigger braker bar. Once that was off The starter 3rd bolt was possibly one of the hardest bolts I have ever gotten out. The I got the the bellhousing all unbolted and ran into my last snag. the jack holding the transmission is to tall so I have a friend bringing a bigger jack to get the front of the car higher so I can keep moving the transmission and access everything I need to. I put everything away for the night and took a shower. I think I did well so far I am essentially almost into the clutch from there its just reverse just need to get the car higher. Here is some pics of everything I tried to get as many as I could while doing various stages of the disassembly.










 

Redbone

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It looks real good so far. I see that you've got the cross member out so the trans is just about ready to come out. It's a tight fit, both out and in. IIRC the trans has to be twisted a little to come out/in. Yeah, the starter and bolts are a real PITA. I can't think of anything else right now other than triple checking your work before putting the trans back in. I remember when I did the 2000 and the new clutch wouldn't disengage and I thought, you dumbass, you put the clutch disc in backwards. It turned out that I hadn't but I should have known that for sure, without a doubt.
 
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Swapfox2145

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Thanks man right now I have the transmission out of the pilot bearing supported with the trans jack adapter the bellhousing is hitting as I bring it back and I really don't want to man handle the tranny off the jack so I am borrowing a friends 3 ton jack it goes up pretty far I think with wood and that jack I should be able to get the front end high enough to get my transmission out from under the car clean it up and do my install then roll the tranny back under. I am grabbing the jack tonight at 6pm when he gets off so expect more pictures tomorrow. It wasn't to bad but my tranny has also been out a handfull of times because of that clutch shop. My lady's gonna need a clutch so I am upgrading to air tools since her clutch was redone 5 years ago it's deffinitely gonna be harder then mine is. Thanks for all the advice guys my arms and chest are killing me from being in that position haha. That third started bolt was so shot haha I ended up not using any extensions I used a deep socket and my smallest ratchet and inched it off. I have been taking pics of things being sure to triple check my work and that I know were bolts and whatnot goes. I am just stoked that the tranny is halfway out currently with no issues or stripped bolts or nothing.

I was a little concerned that in my 2nd picture my transmission is kinda cocked at an angle maybe that is causing issues from their install? not sure but I am gonna check everything once the tranny is out from under the car. Maybe I just need a new tranny mount I was considering ordering one.
 

lwarrior1016

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I noticed you still have the cover over the clutch arm. Did you disconnect the clutch cable? Also, look at the bellhousing on the trans, if it has a ear on both sides, youre definitely going to want to chop those things off.


By the way, if your ladys car is a v6, youre in for a surprise. Its got a t5 and it is much easier to pull than your t45. The exhaust doesnt even have to come down on the v6. The transmission unbolts from the bellhousing on the t5 and it comes down in two pieces.......much, much easier.
 
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Swapfox2145

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Ya I have the clutch cable all disconnected I did it before the transmission crossmember. In the 2nd to last picture the trans jack adapter is in the way but right now everything is disconnected and the tranny is pulled back as far as I can currently just can't get it out the rest of the way until I have the bigger jack to get the front higher so I can wheel out the tranny hopefully. I saw those ears right away as I was getting the two shoulder bolts under the top two and plan to take them off once I have the tranny out from under the car.

Ya she has a 2000 new edge v6 sounds like her's will be a breeze im just concerned about bolts being real tight. I wish my tranny unbolted from my bellhousing I wouldn't need a bigger jack I would probably be done right now haha



*EDIT* (no idea why picture is upside down but you get the jist lol tranny on the ground!)

My buddy came thru tonight and brought his 3 ton jack we got the jack adapter out of the way and got the tranny on the ground! I am so stoked now I can start my install it's gonna be a real pain to get back in but it's all worth it to be driving my car again with no issues! Clutch install starts tomorrow!


24b7rpu.jpg
 
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Swapfox2145

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Hey thanks alot man I am so stoked I finally got it out of the way. So I have some more great news, the clutch install went perfect I disassembled everything cleaned it all up and replaced all the parts now I just need to put my tob on my clutch fork grease it all up and start to move the tranny back into position. I am waiting till tomorrow till I can get a second hand but I left the plug in the middle and tob in the box until I am ready to put the tranny in. Here are some pics for everyone and thanks alot for all the advice you guys really gave me the confidence to attack this head on vs getting screwed by that shop more and more. I am just glad they gave me a refund and I am almost out of this thing ready to drive!!!! I just can't believe that $1000 bought me such a bad install they didn clean anything nor care to make sure my flywheel was turned properly or anything it was a mess before I cleared it all up. I have only driven 200 soft miles since their 2nd install and you can see all the heat marks it was rubbing a ton for sure. ONTO THE PICS!!!!










 

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