New motor disappointment

torch318 · Jul 6, 2015

I was talking to the guy that's going to tune the car this morning and asked him if I should run a different compression than 9.1 since last fall Cory thought I should be running 9.5-9.7. He thought that with 91 octane and 15 psi I should run 8.5-8.7 compression, I was rather surprised with that.

Z06killinsbf · Jul 6, 2015

More compression will make the motor more responsive out of boost and get into the boost level sooner. Sure you run closer to detonation but the motor will make more power and you can always lower your boost level.

Weather Man · Jul 6, 2015

torch318 said:
Talked to my tuner today and he said that when he was checking the plugs two of them were burned off and the gas smelled like varnish. I guess since I only drove the car twice this year and it sat all summer the gas in the tank went bad. He also said that the rebuilt injectors I bought off ebay must not flow 60#'s and he's going swap those out as well

Sorry, but you didn't have anything close to 91 in your tank. That thing must have been knocking like crazy on the dyno. The injectors were probably perfectly fine. Always, always, always make sure you have fresh gas when you take it in to be tuned. Sad to say the tuner knew just enough to be dangerous to your wallet. A reputable shop would have aborted the first pull when she started knocking. Some shops don't give a shit and press on, you get to pay for their stupidity.

Your compression is fine. Your mechanic is thinking old school compression numbers.

torch318 · Jul 6, 2015

Weather Man said:
Sorry, but you didn't have anything close to 91 in your tank. That thing must have been knocking like crazy on the dyno. The injectors were probably perfectly fine. Always, always, always make sure you have fresh gas when you take it in to be tuned. Sad to say the tuner knew just enough to be dangerous to your wallet. A reputable shop would have aborted the first pull when she started knocking. Some shops don't give a shit and press on, you get to pay for their stupidity.

Your compression is fine. Your mechanic is thinking old school compression numbers.

My car had a 1/4 tank of old gas with 5 gallons of fresh gas in it that day and when I was there I never heard it knock. Current tuner Tim thinks it had inaudible detonation which he said the only way to catch that is by watching the exhaust for puffs of black smoke. I remember seeing that the day I was there and thinking that it was kinda strange. The compression test was 120-140 which is more than 10 percent.

Weather Man · Jul 6, 2015

The shop that works on mine that has a tech lean over the engine and listen for knock when doing every dyno run. I was standing there watching and he was making an abort run signal to the operator. The knock sensors also reported knock. I heard nothing, he could because he knew exactly what to listen for with the exhaust bellowing. A quarter tank of crap mixed with 5 gallons good is not acceptable period.

torch318 · Jul 6, 2015

Weather Man said:
A quarter tank of crap mixed with 5 gallons good is not acceptable period.

I agree and accept that I'm partially to blame.

Weather Man · Jul 6, 2015

Not trying to throw you under the bus. You just don't want to repeat an expensive lesson. Finding the shop that has been around for a while with an experienced crew that helps customers avoid expensive lessons is not easy to do. In some areas of the country, it isn't possible at all. When you change multiple things and then go dyno, it gets expensive in a hurry. Good luck with your rebuild.

torch318 · Jul 6, 2015

Weather Man said:
Finding the shop that has been around for a while with an experienced crew that helps customers avoid expensive lessons is not easy to do

I'm currently working with Tim Barth.

Weather Man · Jul 6, 2015

torch318 said:
I'm currently working with Tim Barth.

Looks like feedback is good. Post up how it goes.

torch318 · Oct 14, 2015

Finally it works![emoji4]

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Willis_98GT · Oct 15, 2015

Glad its all working for you again. I just read this entire thread.

I've heard rumors stating that TFS Heads require TFS Specific Camshafts. Are your blower cams designed for TFS Heads? You could be losing hp there if not.

DropTopPony · Oct 15, 2015

If you are working with Tim Barth you are in good hands! Modular Power House was one of the premier shops and his 2V's and Mongoose kits were smoking 4V's. He bought Mr. Norms but I wish he was still doing just the modulars.

torch318 · Oct 16, 2015

Willis_98GT said:
Glad its all working for you again. I just read this entire thread.

I've heard rumors stating that TFS Heads require TFS Specific Camshafts. Are your blower cams designed for TFS Heads? You could be losing hp there if not.

I'm using mmr's stage 3 blower cam which will work for either ford's or tfs heads. I debated on switching them but figured I would be able to hit my hp goal with those cams and not have to buy new cams. The car maxed out the MAF at 6500 rpm, Tim had planned on taking the car up to 7k and said that the car would've made another 20-40 hp. Currently not looking to take the car any further as the torque converter and trans that I'm running are maxed out along with the feed and return fuel lines and pumps needing upgraded.

torch318 · Oct 16, 2015

DropTopPony said:
If you are working with Tim Barth you are in good hands! Modular Power House was one of the premier shops and his 2V's and Mongoose kits were smoking 4V's. He bought Mr. Norms but I wish he was still doing just the modulars.

Tim actually sold MPH/ Mr. Norms last year and he just does tuning there and builds race car chassis at his house now.

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lwarrior1016 · Oct 16, 2015

The cams will "work", but not efficiently. Its impossible to make the cam work correctly in both pi and tfs heads. The intake lobes are pretty much reversed.

torch318 · Oct 16, 2015

lwarrior1016 said:
The cams will "work", but not efficiently. Its impossible to make the cam work correctly in both pi and tfs heads. The intake lobes are pretty much reversed.

When I was looking at swapping them out I couldn't find a good answer as to how much of a power difference there would be, but i never called L and M engines as they're the ones who figured out the issue with the cams in the first place. I did see a post where a guy running the 195r heads on a twin turbo setup picked up 80 hp, but he never said how much the car made total as I figured it would probably be a percentage difference verses a straight hp figure that applied to all applications.

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Willis_98GT · Oct 16, 2015

torch318 said:
I'm using mmr's stage 3 blower cam which will work for either ford's or tfs heads. I debated on switching them but figured I would be able to hit my hp goal with those cams and not have to buy new cams. The car maxed out the MAF at 6500 rpm, Tim had planned on taking the car up to 7k and said that the car would've made another 20-40 hp. Currently not looking to take the car any further as the torque converter and trans that I'm running are maxed out along with the feed and return fuel lines and pumps needing upgraded.

Awesome, enjoy it for a while