NPI & PI cam specs

96blak54

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Ill be issuing stock 2v cam specs here, so stay tuned! To add, .....npi cam specs compared to pi specs is rather surprising. Ill also be describing how to set up the stock npi cams for better performance over pi cams!! So for those looking to swap cams, but don't,... stay tuned!
 

07GtS197

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Sounds good! I was thinking about swapping my npi cams out in my 98 p71 but if its not necessay Ill skip that and throw a pi intake on it.
 

07GtS197

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HURRRRRYYYYYYYY




Im interested in messing with the npi cams in my crown vic and combine it with a pi intake.
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Ive managed to map out a few cams. 2 passenger side pi cams and 2 driver side npi cams. Each cam diffrent part#'s just to see consistency. Theory is the same type of cam was all made the same....lets find out.

I took a normal 2v head and set it up with a bunch of dial gauges and degree wheel. Time consuming process mapping a cam out. Although I enjoyed it! A solid lasher was used to debunk any lash bleed off while mapping and doing this will provide actual lobe duration. So now with a gauge directly on the valve spring keeper, lets measure.
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Pi cams both passenger side
XL3F-6251-A7C
XL3E-6C255-B7B

intake/exhaust
at .006 valve lift
246*/250*
at .050 lift
200*/208*

Max lift surprisingly .480"
I always told the pi cams had .050" more lift....oh well
Lobe seperation angle 116*
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Npi cams
Both cams are driver side
F2AE-6250-AA
F65E-6250-AA(tool marking curpted any legibility. This cam did come out of a 99 crown vic) *corrected*

F2AE
Intake/exhaust
at .006 lift
266*/242*
at .050
210*/200*

Lobe separation angle is 113*

F65E(99 vic)
Intake/exhaust
at .006
258*/256*
at .050
210*/200*

Max lift .450 both cams
Lobe separation 116* F6 (99vic)
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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So I just ran the cam calculator on these parameters. The npi F2AE cam would be a great cam for a pi head! Setting the intake lobe up solid lash and leaving a lasher on the exhaust could prove to be a CHEAP upgrade cam swap. Pair this with long tubes, I couldnt see why a gain of 15-20hp couldnt be had. Sure the cam has lower lift values, but thats where the pi head reins!! And its only .030" less lift but dang ....20° more intake duration and 8° less exhaust. Coupling the exhaust with a sqooshy lasher could prove less, aiding in that bigger pi exhaust valve. No reason to open that big boy up early.
 

PinkieT

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Boy, I'm glad there are mad scientists out there like you to figure this stuff out. :laughing5:
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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My point exactly! I know their are strick engine classes in racing. Knowing whats available stock, can give that extra edge. Setting the cam up for maximum performance adds to the edge.
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Check this out!
I just mapped a cam I pulled out of a npi 5.4l head.....pretty interesting!

Passenger side cam

F65E-6251-BA
.475" / .460" max lift
Intake / exhaust
.006" lift
272*/266*
.050" lift
224*/ 210/

32* overlap measure at the lobes

114* lsa (lobe seperation angle)

This cam is about as close to a compcam stage 1 as youll get. The compcam has 20* more exhaust duration at .050" and lift values are .550" both lobes.

Compared to a pi cam this npi 5.4l cam offers alot more! These cams are dime a dozen at junkyards. Probably pick up for less than $50.
 
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wmfateam

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So for someone who knows nothing about the numbers you speak of, so far you are saying that PI heads with NPI cams with solid lash adjusters on the intake side and hydraulic on the exhaust side sounds like a legit set up? With the new year, I am needing to get my PI swap going.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Be sure the npi cams are 5.4l cams.

Newer pi style lash adjusters on the intake side will be better than the factory npi ones and solid lashing them gains more of the cam profile than a normal lasher. Although soild lashing maximizes the duration, regular adjusting is needed. Something to think about.

So its like this with lashers. The faster bleed out listed first.

Mark8, lincoln b heads
4.6l npi
4.6l pi

The bleeddown between mark8/lincoln lashers and pi lashers is night and day. Pi lashers are stiff!

The idea of fast bleeddown exhaust offers veriable valve timing. When rpm rise, so does oil pressures. This hydraulically changes the bleedrate. More pressure = no bleeddown = more cam lobe. Like solid lashing.

Since I brought this up, the npi head can benefit from a simple lasher swap.
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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I pulled another cam from a low mileage npi 5.4l truck head. All the lashers were expected to be npi lashers and they were. The npi lasher is unlike the pi lasher. The full stroke of the lasher stem isnt springed like the pi, keeping the stem maxed stroke, topped out. I find all npi lasher half springed and play from mid stroke to maxed out. Sort of like the spring has reduced its size, but I dont think so, cause ive pulled a mass amount of 4v lashers and they not be this way.

The lashers are never at full stroke. Full stroke would keep the valve open, never closing completely. Running more at half stroke. So, it doesnt matter if its half spring or full spring. Its the bleed down rates that differ greatly!

The npi head valve seat spring pressure is higher than pi head and a lasher that bleeds fast will offer less valve opening from the cam lobe. You see, the lasher bleeds down fast before valve action. The follower floates in place, not a cantaleaver. Replacing them with slower bleed pi lashers offer a more direct cam lobe to valve action, reducing the float, using the full cam lobe profile.
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Mustsng pi cam

XL3E-6C255-BB (could be B8 or 8B. Light stamping)

Intake / Exhaust
.006" lift
244* / 260*
.050" lift
220* / 210*

.495" / .540" max lift

LSA 113*


Check it out! The exhaust has more lift! Explains why pi cams are a good upgrade to npi heads. Stock npi head exhaust flow is pitiful, coupled with npi cam, even more pitiful. Throw in the mix fast bleed lasher....even worse!
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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So its settled! There are more factory cam offerings than we initially thought. Instead of a guess that 2 makes of cams were all that was available, npi and pi, Ford actually helped us out and blessed us diehards with a selection. Thank you Ford!

Now, im still curious if matching cam part #'s are ground equally.
The 2 seperate #'s at the thread beginning were in fact ground the same, but to show consistency, 2 of the same is needed.

Also, with all the cams I have, im uncertain if any were a match from the same engine. Luckily I just aquired an exploder 4.6l and will be pulling both cams for measuring!
 

Silver95bird

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Okay, I've been following this thread for a while. Great work. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's thrown a few of the NPI cams out that maybe I shouldn't have. Have a few questions though. Are those two pi cams mustang cams ? Truck? 4.6/5.4? Lots to think about. Were Windsor mustang cams ground special for the 99-00 cars, or were they truck cams for those years? Did bullit mustangs get the same cams as the other Romeo built pi cars? Are 5.4 pi cams the same as 4.6 ones? I see you've already got the exploder covered.

About the lifters. Again, most of us thought they were all basically the same. Do the lifters have basically the same depth/ installed height that they're not going to be a fitment issue? I.e. will a pi lifter in an NPI head stay wide open and keep a valve off the seat on the base circle? And how much difference at the valve does changing the lifters make? It's not changing the cam, but it might as well be. I don't think it will change much at .050, but it may change the advertised duration quite a bit. Don't know how hard that is to check without a way to keep the oil pressure up to keep the lifters from collapsing.

Keep in mind, the mustang may have been the last car to get a 4.6, but it was the first to get a 5spd with one. All the other car lines were limited in the EEC for the torque converter ballooning issue to 5250rpms, save mustang and the police interceptors I believe. Mustang was the first higher revving car. Perhaps the lifters were revised to handle the higher rpms, or alternately they found so much energy being used compressing both the lifter and the stiff NPI spring that they stiffened the lifter and weakened the spring tension to lessen the parasitic losses and gain mileage/ power. The installed spring heights varied also as I recall. Might have even used the same springs, just machined the pockets lower. I know the pre-f5ae heads were lift limited by coil bind, and the later ones were less so. If you had a pre96 modular, the offset retainers were needed for the larger cams.
 
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96blak54

96blak54

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Most cams listed came from crownvic or towncar...I dont know which, so I didnt list it. I dont recall any from a 96-98 mustang. Id be happy to know the answers to years specific cams, but my stock pile just isnt that big.

I always find the npi lashers bled out and have that mid stoke play in them, where the pi lashers are completely extended because of an internal spring.

You nailed it about pi head reduced valve seat pressure and lifter stiffness. Not to mention how much heavier the valve got.
 

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