Planning a mild-ish supercharger build w/B heads. First 4V

Discussion in '96-04 - 4V Specific' started by ScottyDsntKnow, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Going with the B heads because of cost, I got 2 sets for free along with a spare Teksid. Also I'm boosting it with a Novi and I love the look of the 96-98 Cobra intake. Car it is going into is a 2000 Mustang GT Steeda supercharged special built car.

    This is my first 4V so please be nice... not my first modular but still. Also I have pretty much everything already except the rods and pistons, just need to go through the heads and block and buy all the misc small parts like gaskets and hardware.

    Plan for the motor:

    -Fresh Teksid block
    -Freshened stock B heads with upgraded valve springs
    -Stock 96-98 Cobra cams
    -Stock 96-98 Cobra intake manifold
    -BBK 62mm TB
    -Cobra oil pump
    -Cast crank
    -MMR Forged I beams
    -Manley Street Master Forged pistons with upgraded pins
    -Novi 2000 with CX Racing intercooler setup (I somehow found Novi brackets for the 4V)

    Supporting cast:

    -42lb injectors
    -Upgraded fuel pump (working with Steeda to find out what they used)
    -Modified 99-04 4V fuel rails
    -PowerAdderSolutions Slot MAF
    -IMRC Deletes
    -FRPP Shorties
    -VRS catted X
    -Bassanni catback
    -AFM Power Pipe
    -Stock low mileage T45
    -Exedy Mach 400 11" clutch
    -Tri Ax
    -3.73s
    -Steeda springs/control arms/sway bars/CC plates/strut tower brace


    And then all the 4V swap parts obviously. Tune will be a remote from Tuning by James to start with and then I might dial it in on a local dyno but being stock heads/cams/intake I don't think he will have too much trouble. Any opinions or suggestions would be great. I know this is not going to set the world on fire or anything, car is going to mostly a fun street toy. I don't need something making a zillion HP for that.
     
  2. DeepList

    DeepList Administrator Admin SN95 Supporter

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    How set are you on using the B heads? Keep in mind, this is just my opinion, but if you're going to spend the time and money on this build, I wouldn't mess with them. You could probably sell the B heads on craigslist to some local Mark guy, and then invest that money (plus a little more) into a set of revised C heads. I know you said you like the look of the 96-98 intake, but you have way more intake options with C heads, and not to mention, you can bolt on an eaton if you wanted to later on. More importantly, the cylinder filling capability of the B heads suck.
     
  3. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Do you know the exact year of B head? The older lincolns came with machined valve guides requiring different valve seals. Be on the look out for that. Those seals are $125 for each head!

    Its how the C heads put the rush into the chamber that makes them so great street heads! Low drivable speed, crazy good in cylinder tumble, better known as high tumble port. The port causes the rush to tumble in the cylinder(tumble after the valve....not inside the port) really fast at low driving speed. The B heads not so well at low speeds. One port tumbles high, the other tumbles low.(im refering to how the charge enters in the chamber) Use flat top pistons with either and a mist type injector(one of the biggest down fall of the B head success). Dont port the heads. Dont kill what they were designed to do.

    If I had my pick with cheap 4v heads, B heads would be my pick. 5.4l piston speeds favor the B head. If I had my pick with any 4v head, id choose the fr500 cause of low tumble port design.
     
  4. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    I had heard about the valve guide thing, that is one thing I was going to ask. Here are the pics I just took of the sides of the heads.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    This is the kind of info I'm here for. I've seen some cheap non-revised C heads off Continentals recently. Not sure I can justify the cost of the revised cores these days when B heads are free... But if I'm paying $125 per head for valve seals... I dunno lol. I might need to go find some real Cobra heads if these Mark VIII ones are the older style... not sure what year they are from.

    They do not have beehive springs... I'm assuming these are 93-96 castings but not 100%. So these would be the potentially expensive valve seal ones huh?
     
  5. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    I can confirm 97-up lincoln heads are close like cobra heads. Chambers set them apart. The valve guides for sure are like cobra. And valves seals much cheaper! Ill try to get a pic of what im talking about.
     
  6. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Also Fel Pro is having a closeout on Rockauto for the 93/94 Valve Stem seals... http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=446722&cc=1188514&jsn=10603&jsn=10603


    but I need to tear this head apart and see if I can identify exactly what year it is...

    Pretty sure the 97/98 Mark heads are the F6ZE Cobra castings but I could be wrong... I know I have earlier Mark heads but not sure how early. Is there an appreciable power difference when running Cobra cams? Remember I have a pretty damn big blower going on this motor...

    Yeah if you could get a pic that would be great, I am tearing these motors apart starting Thursday. Would like to hit that Fel Pro sale if that is indeed something I need. Although none of the sets are $125 per head unless I am looking at something wrong or the wrong part which is completely possible.
     
  7. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Well I just found found a 70k mile set of Cobra B heads complete with beehive springs, loaded with cams, sprockets and everything for $400 shipped. I still need the Cobra cams and the beehive springs in good shape might be good enough for what I am doing. Plus a known mileage and year is good too...
     
  8. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    [​IMG]

    At the time when I was rebuilding a set of B heads (out of the 4 sets ive got), the valve seals were $120 compared to Cobra and all the newer heads using the same seal. The $120 had to of been for both heads cause iirc for a pair of cobra(navigator heads I have) is like $60ish. Well....I thought Dang! $120 for seals is crazy. So I googled them and still $120. Im glad youre reporting back with this cause I may splurge and stock up. Ive built my current engine now to accept B heads for future plans after toying with 2v....who knows!
     
  9. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I went ahead and ordered them. Shipping sucks but the intake cams alone are worth $200.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/201554056240

    The heads I got were free anyway, I paid $500 over the weekend for 2 Mark motors plus a Cobra intake plus FRPP shorties plus a 62mm BBK TB. Just the blocks, intake, TB and shorties alone are worth double what I paid. I can probably make back that $400 I just spent on selling the loose parts over time.
     
  10. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I saved the pic, that is good info! I'll see what the Mark heads look like when I pull them apart. But I ordered those loaded Cobra heads so I might try to sell them to recoup some $$$... or just put them on the shelf as cores.

    And I know the ppl suggesting that C heads are better are right. I know they are better. But I'm doing this on a pretty tight budget and even that $400 I just spent needs to be recouped selling some spare parts I have lying around. But its really just $200 because I needed those cams anyway... At least that's what I'm telling myself. Ah cars...
     
  11. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Ok it seems you know a ton about the B heads for sure. For the mist pattern injectors... what would you recommend? Like I said currently I have FRPP green tops. Any other tips or tricks? Are the stock beehive springs good enough for boost and shifting at 7K or should I just spend a little extra on Brian Tooley 95lb springs? Any other advice you can give me I'm all ears. You think the Mark heads I have are worth keeping as cores?
     
  12. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    The gen3 bosch injectors. They are skinny body and can be found in alot of ford vehicles. The springs arnt good for boost at stock lbs for 7k rpm. Adding some spring shims could help with seat pressures. Their is some play room in the collapse height. Brian tooley is good stuff. Let Jared Cochenour know his modular buddy from Meggitt sent you.

    Lap all the valves in real good. Most importantly, dont touch the heads. Decking them is all youll want to modify and .080" deck is about all you can go untill the intake seats are breached. Decking a B head really does nothing to quench areas, only reducing chamber size.
     
  13. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    I'll let Jared know for sure thank you. As far as the injectors... The ones stock from Ford are good enough for the 500hp range? Any idea what the best vehicle to find them in would be?
     
  14. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    I guess 03/04 cobras? Navigators came with black injectors, but im not sure what the rating on them are.
     
  15. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Oh ok the Cobra 39lb injectors are the dual jet ones that shoot 2 streams diagonally. I'm sure I could sell my greens and pick those up and not be out any $$$.
     
  16. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Supposedly, the jets favor forced induction while the mist favor n/a. I dont know.....I havent enough enough dealing with injectors patterns and the benefits of each type. But I do know the B heads need as much atomized rush as possible. It may very be that mist type injectors dont go pass a certain rating...idk. Ive never been in those hp territory. Only my buddies have.
     
  17. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'll for sure try to find a set of freshened 39lb injectors from a Termi. I was going to send my 42s out to get cleaned/rebuilt and flow tested anyway. They are low miles but 16 years old...
     
  18. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Sounds like a good plan! Keep us updated! Be sure to start a build plan. Id love to follow along this one, see results. Your experience is going to be rewarding to this group of stangers!
     
  19. ScottyDsntKnow

    ScottyDsntKnow Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I should start a buildup thread. I'll start it when I actually get everything torn down and sold. Currently I don't have any room to move in my garage without wheeling 2 motors out and climbing over the Mark motor sitting on a pallet... Need to get both these motors broken down and sell off pretty much everything except the Cobra parts and the Teksids and cranks.

    My F6ZE heads and cams should be showing up here monday or tuesday and once I get everything cleaned up I can really get cracking. Have a potential buyer down in MD for my complete 2V which would be nice. Funds for most of the rest of the nickel and dime conversion parts.

    Also I think I should probably go straight to 60lb injectors? Probably won't need them at first but maybe down the line. Need to research what the 39lb Termi injectors are good for power wise.
     
  20. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    What do you mean down the line? What are you planning?

    I have 99 continental fuel rails. I just googled a pic to compare the differences. Doesnt look like a direct swap for the continental has the fuel line hook ups on the opposite