Ptv issue question.

kvoriley · Jul 29, 2014

I just finished my pi engine swap with comp 270s (big mistake). They were degreed at 113 ICL . I started it up and immediately sounded like loud valve train noise or ptv contact?. So I shut it off. Ran for about 10-15 seconds. I'm assuming that I'm screwed? Is there any chance that I got lucky and didn't bend a bunch of valves? Or am I going to be pulling the heads soon.. I was going to try and retard the cams to 115 or 116 ICL . I know this isn't ideal, but I just need the car on the road until I graduate next spring.

edit: I THINK it is ptv contact, I am not 100% sure. How would I go about checking to make sure?
i started it a couple more times briefly just to see if it was not completely primed. Still made the noise both times.

96blak54 · Jul 30, 2014

It sounds like ptv contact judging by your description. ...and cam size.

CC'S95GT · Jul 30, 2014

Did you hand crank the engine through at assy? You should have seen the issue then.
Do a compression/ leak down test. The bent vlvs will leak. Maybe even a borescope to see is there are any marks on the piston from the vlvs.
If you ran it and the V's DID hit the P's then the V's are toast.

kvoriley · Jul 30, 2014

CC'S95GT said:
Did you hand crank the engine through at assy? You should have seen the issue then.
Do a compression/ leak down test. The bent vlvs will leak. Maybe even a borescope to see is there are any marks on the piston from the vlvs.
If you ran it and the V's DID hit the P's then the V's are toast.

Yes I did hand crank it and it turned over smoothly, didn't feel any ptv contact, but I thought maybe they are just kissing the valves. I'm going to a leak down test this afternoon.

RichV · Jul 30, 2014

How long does it take for the lifters to pump up on the 4.6? Could that be what you heard?

kvoriley · Jul 30, 2014

RichV said:
How long does it take for the lifters to pump up on the 4.6? Could that be what you heard?

I'm not sure. Thats what I was hoping but I took the valve cover off and it seemed like there was plenty of oil in the head

MaxxRPM · Jul 30, 2014

The motor is most likely OK but you definitely need to find out whats causing the hammering.

RichV · Jul 30, 2014

MaxxRPM said:
The motor is most likely OK but you definitely need to find out whats causing the hammering.

Even if there was the slightest tap from piston to valve, the valve is bent. Hope it's just noisy lifters. On initial startup with a 5.0, after a valvetrain change, it takes a good 30-60 seconds if they are not full of oil.

kvoriley · Jul 30, 2014

MaxxRPM said:
The motor is most likely OK but you definitely need to find out whats causing the hammering.

Yeah I took all the spark plugs and tried to get a look at the pistons and I didn't see anything. But that doesn't mean anything, I might try to see if I can find someone with an inspection camera before I do a leak down test, does anyone have a video of a mustang with ptv? Lol

kvoriley · Jul 30, 2014

I hope it is , it just makes me super nervous because it had plenty of oil pressure, so I don't want to keep running it until I know for sure. It was probably started for about a total of 30 seconds and the noise never got quieter.

96blak54 · Jul 31, 2014

You can hand crank that engine a million rotations but never pump the lifters up to full valve lift and not to mention the cushion of soft adjusters masking any noise or locking up senario. Noise just dont happen when all is right! Bite the bullet and start disassemble......sorry...very depressing, I know. Please dont hate me for typing it..lol

MaxxRPM · Jul 31, 2014

MaxxRPM said:
The motor is most likely OK but you definitely need to find out whats causing the hammering.

Last year my trigger wheel blew up. After installing a new one, the whole driver side head was hammering....very loud! It sound like no oil was getting to the head and every follower, adjuster, valve, etc was hammering......but there was plenty of oil. Used a Boroscope to look down inside cylinder and saw PTV contact.......I thought the motor was done.
I torn it back down and discovered the driver side timing chain had jumped 1 tooth (debris from the trigger wheel). After putting it back together, it runs fine.

.......This is why I say its probably still OK but I would start by tearing it back down and checking your mechanical timing.
I have Comp 262 cams. With the 270 cams, I hope you're using ALL new timing components because there is no room for any slop with those big cams and your mechanical timing has to be very precise.

kvoriley · Jul 31, 2014

MaxxRPM said:
Last year my trigger wheel blew up. After installing a new one, the whole driver side head was hammering....very loud! It sound like no oil was getting to the head and every follower, adjuster, valve, etc was hammering......but there was plenty of oil. Used a Boroscope to look down inside cylinder and saw PTV contact.......I thought the motor was done.
I torn it back down and discovered the driver side timing chain had jumped 1 tooth (debris from the trigger wheel). After putting it back together, it runs fine.

.......This is why I say its probably still OK but I would start by tearing it back down and checking your mechanical timing.
I have Comp 262 cams. With the 270 cams, I hope you're using ALL new timing components because there is no room for any slop with those big cams and your mechanical timing has to be very precise.

I only installed new tensioners. If I tear it down, I will definitely buy a timing chain kit lol. Lesson learned. How long have you been running your engine since then? Because I know there is always a chance of the valves bending and still sealing, then I would run into more problems down the road. I'm trying to find someone with a borescope before I start tearing everything down again.

D3VST8R96GT · Jul 31, 2014

I would only get new guides and tensioner. The other stuff is pretty robust. A trigger wheel going sounds insane, how did it skip a tooth? The trigger wheel just sits there..... maybe I'm thinking wrong.

MaxxRPM · Aug 1, 2014

Been 4 months and a couple trips to the track since and all is fine. The fact that you manually rotated the motor and it didn't lock is a good thing. What you are experiencing now is mild PTV contact most likely. Do a Boroscope inspection and a compression check and decide what you want to do from there.

...........Also, for you and anyone else doing a PI head swap on an NPI, do yourself a favor and switch to the 1 piece crank gear and updated trigger wheel while your in there (Ford part 02 and up)........The old style trigger wheels do fail if pushed hard enough.........Ask me how I know....LOL!
.........And the 1 piece crank gear will help keeping both banks in time.

kvoriley · Aug 1, 2014

MaxxRPM said:
Been 4 months and a couple trips to the track since and all is fine. The fact that you manually rotated the motor and it didn't lock is a good thing. What you are experiencing now is mild PTV contact most likely. Do a Boroscope inspection and a compression check and decide what you want to do from there.

...........Also, for you and anyone else doing a PI head swap on an NPI, do yourself a favor and switch to the 1 piece crank gear and updated trigger wheel while your in there (Ford part 02 and up)........The old style trigger wheels do fail if pushed hard enough.........Ask me how I know....LOL!
.........And the 1 piece crank gear will help keeping both banks in time.

I did a pi engine swap out of an 04 so I should be good with the crank gear and trigger wheel correct? And I saw that they have a bore scope for 69.99 at harbor might go pick one up. But that's really good to hear, what did you have to retard your cams to get them to fit??

MaxxRPM · Aug 1, 2014

Yeah, if you used the guts from the 04 you're good.....I have stage 1 cams so I never degreed them. What caused my PTV contact was when it jumped time.

kvoriley · Aug 1, 2014

MaxxRPM said:
Yeah, if you used the guts from the 04 you're good.....I have stage 1 cams so I never degreed them. What caused my PTV contact was when it jumped time.

Oh that's right you already said that lol. I've been trying to do some research on what people have been degreeing there 270s at to get them to clear but I have heard anywhere from 110 to 116.

kvoriley · Aug 8, 2014

kvoriley said:
Oh that's right you already said that lol. I've been trying to do some research on what people have been degreeing there 270s at to get them to clear but I have heard anywhere from 110 to 116.

anybody? should I start by retarding them to 116 ICL?

99GreenStang · Aug 10, 2014

Retarding the camshaft just basically lowers the specs on the camshaft to fit your application. You can advance one or retard one.

Most tools from harbor freight are junk unless there just a few bucks with a lifetime warranty and I personally wouldn't trust one in "My" engine but that's your call my friend.

If you have a bent valve I wouldn't count on it sealing at all and if you even "thinks you have a bent valve it's worth pulling the heads to check because what if one drops and into the piston and there's some serious damage gonna happen then.

Should have just checked your PTV clearance when installing by using the Plato method and using a mic to measure the impression. You need 80? On intake side and 100 on the exhaust side since it expands with heat. Very easy and cost saving and time saving method.

Hope some of this information helps you my brotha! Hope you can get her situated soon!!