Yeah, pretty sure. The advantage of the closed loop tuning for partial throttle and idle are simply too great to pass up. Nothing on this car is radical. The previous tuner thought that he was being all crafty with the tune, but the reality was the car would not have a chance to adjust itself to changing conditions, and that would cause it to stall. I got a call from the shop already, sounds like all the driveability issues have been sorted out. They are waiting on some parts to finish wide open throttle tuning, because the alternator would stop charging at high rpms for some reason, and that would throw off the O2 readings. Once the new alternator is installed and the charging problem isn't there anymore, they will finish it up and give it back to me. The tuning is being done on a Mustang dyno, which means that they can put a load on it, and really work out the driveability kinks.
ReplicaR's Time Trial Mustang build *Engine Rebuild*
- Thread starter ReplicaR
- Start date
What all is involved on doing hydroboost with our pushrods?!? Has it been done before?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If it’s been done do you have a link? If it hasn’t please do a very detailed thread!!!! 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've seen people do it before, but I've never seen anyone adapt the power steering pump as well. Usually people will do the hydrboost unit and the pedals, along with the hydraulic lines to make it all work, but the factory pump isn't the best choice for application. You end up with a very dead and stiff feeling brake pedal that also receives a LOT of power steering whine through the firewall, and the pedal movement is very choppy. I went through several stages of Hydroboost conversion myself, so I know how different things affect the car.
1. Hydrboost unit only: The unit didn't even line up withe holes on the pedal box or the pin on the brake pedal. The shop that was doing conversion butchered the install, hacked up the hydroboost unit to fit, put some spacers under the brake pedal cover, because it was not on the same level as the other pedals. New lines had to be run from the power steering pump into the hydroboost unit in order to make it all work. End result was a pedal that was ungodly hard, had a very short travel, and 0 feel. The car stopped really well, but it felt like complete garbage in terms of actual brake pedal feel. On top of all of that the notoriously noisy power steering pump would now feed all that noise right into the cabin because the hydroboost unit is powered by it.
2. Hydroboost unit and pedal box: I've chatted with someone at MM, and they suggested to take a look at the pedal box out of a hydroboost equipped mustang. Apparently the motion ration is different between the vacuum assist brake and hydroboost brake pedals, which would explain why the pedal box and hydroboost didn't line up on the first install. I had a shop swap in the pedal box, and had to buy another hydroboost unit, because the previous shop hacked up it beyond what could be used. The pedal travel increased a bit, but the pedal still felt completely dead, and there was still feedback noise from the power steering pump, not to mention the pedal motion would be choppy.
3. Hydroboost unit with pedal box and power steering pump: Whenever I would drive the car, I would think to myself, there is no way this kind of brake feel would be acceptable by an OEM application, even for a mid 90s american built car. A friend of mine had a stock 96 GT, so I asked him to take it for a spin, and sure enough his brake pedal felt nothing like mine did. It was much smoother, and it had slightly better feel, although still not as good as vacuum assisted brakes. I had to finish the hydrboost conversion, power steering pump was the final piece of the puzzle. The issue became then how to mount the power steering pump, because not only was it mounted in a different location on the modular motor, it was also mounted in a completely different style. I had a shop spend 4 billable hours and fabricate a custom mount for the power steering pump to put it in the stock location. I've compared the size of the power steering pulleys, and they were the same, so at least I knew that I didn't have to deal with anything being over-driven or under-driven. After the correct power steering pump was installed, the car finally felt more or less OEM-like. The pedal pressure was normal, no power steering noise feedback into the cabin, pedal movement was normal too.
C.N.: Hydroboost conversion is all or nothing type of deal. Unless your vacuum brakes don't work at all, don't do it. And if you do decide to do, don't do it anyway. Just sell the car and buy something better.
1. Hydrboost unit only: The unit didn't even line up withe holes on the pedal box or the pin on the brake pedal. The shop that was doing conversion butchered the install, hacked up the hydroboost unit to fit, put some spacers under the brake pedal cover, because it was not on the same level as the other pedals. New lines had to be run from the power steering pump into the hydroboost unit in order to make it all work. End result was a pedal that was ungodly hard, had a very short travel, and 0 feel. The car stopped really well, but it felt like complete garbage in terms of actual brake pedal feel. On top of all of that the notoriously noisy power steering pump would now feed all that noise right into the cabin because the hydroboost unit is powered by it.
2. Hydroboost unit and pedal box: I've chatted with someone at MM, and they suggested to take a look at the pedal box out of a hydroboost equipped mustang. Apparently the motion ration is different between the vacuum assist brake and hydroboost brake pedals, which would explain why the pedal box and hydroboost didn't line up on the first install. I had a shop swap in the pedal box, and had to buy another hydroboost unit, because the previous shop hacked up it beyond what could be used. The pedal travel increased a bit, but the pedal still felt completely dead, and there was still feedback noise from the power steering pump, not to mention the pedal motion would be choppy.
3. Hydroboost unit with pedal box and power steering pump: Whenever I would drive the car, I would think to myself, there is no way this kind of brake feel would be acceptable by an OEM application, even for a mid 90s american built car. A friend of mine had a stock 96 GT, so I asked him to take it for a spin, and sure enough his brake pedal felt nothing like mine did. It was much smoother, and it had slightly better feel, although still not as good as vacuum assisted brakes. I had to finish the hydrboost conversion, power steering pump was the final piece of the puzzle. The issue became then how to mount the power steering pump, because not only was it mounted in a different location on the modular motor, it was also mounted in a completely different style. I had a shop spend 4 billable hours and fabricate a custom mount for the power steering pump to put it in the stock location. I've compared the size of the power steering pulleys, and they were the same, so at least I knew that I didn't have to deal with anything being over-driven or under-driven. After the correct power steering pump was installed, the car finally felt more or less OEM-like. The pedal pressure was normal, no power steering noise feedback into the cabin, pedal movement was normal too.
C.N.: Hydroboost conversion is all or nothing type of deal. Unless your vacuum brakes don't work at all, don't do it. And if you do decide to do, don't do it anyway. Just sell the car and buy something better.
Yeah sounds like a lot of hassle for nothing. I’ll replace my booster and master cylinder with the cobra units and put on my 2015 brake setup and call it a day!!! Lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ttocs
Post Whore
I think baer makes a kit that fits
I had an issue with low vacuum, which is why I switched to hydroboost. If I could find a way to make vacuum brakes work, I wouldn't ever consider hydroboost conversion.
Yeah with a turbo car you don’t generally go with too radical of a cam so vacuum isn’t generally an issue. I should be ok.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, a bit of an update. The shop that was cleaning up the tune found a bunch of other issues, per usual, so they are busy trying to fix everything by the time I need the car. They said that they've tuned it really nice, so that it doesn't stall like it used to anymore and in the process of tuning, they also found another 33 rwhp, going from 320 rwhp to 353 rwhp on a Mustang A248 Dyno. Needless to say I'm very excited about this, that's a good 10% increase in just tune alone. If you were to convert these numbers into DynoJet, given that previously it made 364 (Jet) = 320 (Mustang), then you get 401 rwhp on the Jet with the new numbers, which is pretty impressive for a 10:1 331 with 185 AFR Street Port heads and short tube headers on 91 octane. This definitely changes a few things, and gives me a pretty good power to weight for TT2, which is where I might be heading now. I will give a full write up of what happened recently soon, once I get the car back and do that track day next weekend.
Bro that is going to feel like an animal! That's great!
Tillerman77
Member
Excellent news!
WOW
So, here is a bit of a write up of what's happening currently. My second kid is due any moment now, and I've decided to dust the mustang off and take it to an event one last time before it sits for some time again. I've contacted a shop to have the tune fixed, since the driveability became awful, and the car was very difficult to drive at low speeds. They've fixed the tune and made it much more stable, however that didn't come without issues:
1. The car kept frying alternators, I was literally getting maybe 200-300 miles on an alternator, before it would stop charging. The shop that was doing the tune narrowed it down to my tiny battery, so we pulled that out and replaced it with OEM sized Optima Red Top, along with a new alternator to replace the one that stopped charging again. This made sense to me, because after I switched to the small battery, I've fried 4 alternators (3 autozone, 1 OEM).
2. The intake manifold has a crack in it, causing the car to stall frequently. I'm not entirely sure why, but TrickFlow R Series intake manifold has a crack in one of the bolt holes, which leaks vacuum into the intake manifold and into combustion chambers. I've called TrickFlow and they offered to send me a replacement upper manifold for free after looking at some picture, however the silver color is not in stock, so I have to wait until they get more supplies. Nice of them at least to offer a replacement free.
3. More hydroboost issues, as I broke yet another power steering pump on the warm-up lap. I'm not 100% why the pumps fail so quickly. I've measured everything including the diameter of the pulleys, rotation of the pump and motor, etc, everything looks within factory specification. The only thing that's left to check is if there is something wrong with pressure side hose that's causing the pressure to build up and cause the pump to fail. I am giving hydroboost conversion one last chance, before I have to evaluate my options again. I have at least devised a good test for durability, which consists of holding the motor at 5000 rpm, turning the steering wheel side to side and applying the brakes sporadically. If it can survive that, it should be able to survive a track day. It's just kinda unnerving when you lose both steering assist and brake assist right when you need them both, takes away all confidence.
More changes to come eventually, stay tuned.
1. The car kept frying alternators, I was literally getting maybe 200-300 miles on an alternator, before it would stop charging. The shop that was doing the tune narrowed it down to my tiny battery, so we pulled that out and replaced it with OEM sized Optima Red Top, along with a new alternator to replace the one that stopped charging again. This made sense to me, because after I switched to the small battery, I've fried 4 alternators (3 autozone, 1 OEM).
2. The intake manifold has a crack in it, causing the car to stall frequently. I'm not entirely sure why, but TrickFlow R Series intake manifold has a crack in one of the bolt holes, which leaks vacuum into the intake manifold and into combustion chambers. I've called TrickFlow and they offered to send me a replacement upper manifold for free after looking at some picture, however the silver color is not in stock, so I have to wait until they get more supplies. Nice of them at least to offer a replacement free.
3. More hydroboost issues, as I broke yet another power steering pump on the warm-up lap. I'm not 100% why the pumps fail so quickly. I've measured everything including the diameter of the pulleys, rotation of the pump and motor, etc, everything looks within factory specification. The only thing that's left to check is if there is something wrong with pressure side hose that's causing the pressure to build up and cause the pump to fail. I am giving hydroboost conversion one last chance, before I have to evaluate my options again. I have at least devised a good test for durability, which consists of holding the motor at 5000 rpm, turning the steering wheel side to side and applying the brakes sporadically. If it can survive that, it should be able to survive a track day. It's just kinda unnerving when you lose both steering assist and brake assist right when you need them both, takes away all confidence.
More changes to come eventually, stay tuned.
ttocs
Post Whore
are you running underdrive pullies?
Your woes with the hydroboost setup is something I was concerned about. It's unnerving to lose the assisted braking and steering all at once.
Good on Trickflow for taking care of you, even though you have to wait. With the new manifold, hopefully the vacuum issue goes away. It may also help drivability (though, it sounds to be mostly tune related)
I really hope the new battery is the fix for your charging issue. Have the honored the warranties on them at least? (hoping there was a warranty.)
Congratulations on child number 2!
Good on Trickflow for taking care of you, even though you have to wait. With the new manifold, hopefully the vacuum issue goes away. It may also help drivability (though, it sounds to be mostly tune related)
I really hope the new battery is the fix for your charging issue. Have the honored the warranties on them at least? (hoping there was a warranty.)
Congratulations on child number 2!
Our alternators use a type G3 regulator, it is the little square plastic thing on the back of the housing where the wires go in, this is what fries. They are cheap and easy to replace, search around and learn the different type and quality and when your in the junk yard start collecting stock Ford OEM ones. Quality counts with this piece and most are 3rd world junk replacements, there are some good high performance ones... I will have to dig through the Denso catalog.
How do you rate the TF intake? Worth the money? Good low end? Or is it the same as the Eddy, just top end help. The TF has long runners and stars at 1.5" and tapers up to 2" at the head port. I am running big ported PI heads at high CR and a small cam with 10 degreese exhaust over lap. The stock intake is impressive down low but stop flowing at 4600rpm, the heads are just getting good at that point.
How do you rate the TF intake? Worth the money? Good low end? Or is it the same as the Eddy, just top end help. The TF has long runners and stars at 1.5" and tapers up to 2" at the head port. I am running big ported PI heads at high CR and a small cam with 10 degreese exhaust over lap. The stock intake is impressive down low but stop flowing at 4600rpm, the heads are just getting good at that point.
Running stock diameter pulleys, I wanted to confirm that I wasn't overspinning anything.
Even if it is a fragile part, it definitely should last a lot longer than 300 miles. Hopefully running a stock sized battery will take care of that. As far as the intake manifold is concerned, I tried to piece together a package for the whole engine. My previous intake manifold was a ported Edebrock Performer 5.0, which would cause the power to drop off dramatically at 5200 rpm. TrickFlow R series seemed to offer the correct working powerband, and didn't really lose anything at the bottom, so it's a good package with the rest of my engine.
Musturd
Post Whore
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2011
- Messages
- 10,482
- Reaction score
- 2,238
All these hydroboost problems have me concerned . I did hyrdoboost on my old fox years ago it seemed to work quite nicely . Hoping the alternator issues are fixed as well
Similar threads
