Soooo… what are people running for coilover springs? Whats your application? And where can I learn more about sn95 suspension geometry and physics?

[Ansharky]

So I’m gearing up for my 300 hp 98 gt build, full bolt on, long tube headers, 75mm throttle body, Tfs 2001 cams, 373 gears, high stall converter and 18x8.5 wheels. It’s just supposed to be a weekend car that’s better on the corners than stock, and maybe launches/accelerates better, very occasionally sees the track.

I’m still pretty lost on suspension but I want to learn, I asked feal what the lowest springs they could give me in the front without an up charge are, and they said they could go 6k/336 in the front.(ive since come to agree with mm that their default option of 8k is too stiff for what I want) for a more affordable option, I’ve also been looking at strange struts and shocks with a front coilover kit, with 10 in 336 lb hyper coil springs, and whatever mm would suggest to match in the back.

So I spoke with maximum motor sports, and they said I want something like 4k in the front, but I just think I’m gonna want a little more stiffness for cornering. (I live in VA, we have a lot of winding roads, and mountains out west) Likewise, I looked at team z’s coilovers and they only go up to 200 lbs. I just know if I could break down the physics and geometry of the suspension I could figure out what I wanted for my purposes, an all around street car that i can try a bit of everything with, if I like drag racing the most, I’ll build a more dedicated drag set up in the future, likewise for auto cross, drifting etc. Right now it is just going to be a STREET CAR.


Definitely going with the mm torque arm, and Panhard bar, don’t wanna mess with the oem upper control arms. And leaning towards team z’s a arms, and adjustable rear lower control arms. I do want the ability to lower my car, especially with my new wheels, I want to decrease the wheel gap.

Anyway… I know this has been a lot of word vomit but, Whats everyone running? And where do I go to learn more?

 

[Ansharky]

I should say, maximum motor sports DID break down the suspension for me, very well, but I couldn’t follow. They clearly know a lot and I felt like I needed to take notes while I was on the phone, and I didn’t want to annoy the guy by asking him to waste more of his time giving me a lecture.

 

[cobrajeff96]

If I were you I'd call Kenny Brown, they give free 15 minute consultations.

I'd take their recommendations (as well as MM's) about spring rates because if it's primarily street driven those high spring rates will make the car very undesirable to drive on the open road, what with all the bumps and pot holes and the like. A general rule of thumb is that you should always go with the softest ride possible given the application. There's no need to go as stiff as possible because 'stiff just because' is not what creates grip. In fact, it's just the opposite.

 

[white95]

Copy my suspension and you’ll have a canyon carving monster that handles it own autocrossing and is a blast on the street.

Thread 'White's '95 GT "Unicorn"'
https://www.sn95forums.com/threads/whites-95-gt-unicorn.23300/

 

[Ansharky]

Holy $$$$ you’ve come a long way man. That stiff? handles well on the street? Don’t get me wrong you’ve got a beast of a build but everyone’s been telling me 425 in the front is way too stiff for the street.

 

[white95]

Holy $$$$ you’ve come a long way man. That stiff? handles well on the street? Don’t get me wrong you’ve got a beast of a build but everyone’s been telling me 425 in the front is way too stiff for the street.

Nah it’s not too stiff but then again, I am crazy. It handles quite well on the street.

 

[Ansharky]

Nah it’s not too stiff but then again, I am crazy. It handles quite well on the street.

Fair enough lol

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

I’ve said this on another post similar to this about suspension, if you are not racing the car professionally, or are not going to be messing around with ride height on a regular basis, go with some lowering springs and some good shocks, not coil overs. Nobody ever really sets coil overs up properly, mostly just for ride height. They are expensive because of the tuning aspect, which people never use (or use properly). I personally got my car with lowering springs already (at least up front, I think the backs were cut), and it sits decently low, especially in the back. Handles fine.

@white95 is someone who could REALLY hone the coil overs for his ride. I don’t know if he runs them or not, although judging from what I’ve read about his car in the past, I am going to assume he does (I read his build thread a long time ago, don’t remember all the specifics sorry ). For someone like me, I am planning on changing my springs to some Ford Racing units, B or C, not sure yet. I made a long post about it a long time ago, asking people for pictures of their rides with B and C springs, to check the ride height since I wanted to raise my car up a little bit, and still do. That, and some decent shocks, and my car will handle decently, and for a better price than coil overs.

From what I’ve read about you and your car (quite the plans you’ve got for it!), I think you would be better off avoiding the coil overs.

 

[Ansharky]

I’ve said this on another post similar to this about suspension, if you are not racing the car professionally, or are not going to be messing around with ride height on a regular basis, go with some lowering springs and some good shocks, not coil overs. Nobody ever really sets coil overs up properly, mostly just for ride height. They are expensive because of the tuning aspect, which people never use (or use properly). I personally got my car with lowering springs already (at least up front, I think the backs were cut), and it sits decently low, especially in the back. Handles fine.

That IS good advice, but there’s a lot of gravel, uneven pavement, and just crap roads out here in VA. I got my new wheels and I want to decrease my wheel gap so the car sits nicely, but I also want to be able to drive it where I want without having to replace half my bumper with bondo, when I’m not worried about looks, hence the adjustability. I’ve made some friends IRL in the drag community, I know of some performance shops around here that are always looking to help out, some that know a heck of a lot about mustangs, and I’m prepared to spend whatever they cost (I mean nothing too insane, I’m not doing cortex coilovers or anything), but I will do it right.

Also I don’t know if I made it clear or not, I’m only doing coilovers in the front, unless something changes, I’m going for the divorced setup in the rear.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

That IS good advice, but there a lot of gravel, uneven pavement, and just crap roads out here in VA. I got my new wheels and I want to decrease my wheel gap so the car sits nicely, but I also want to be able to drive it where I want without having to replace half my bumper with bondo, when I’m not worried about looks, hence the adjustability. I’ve made some friends IRL in the drag community, I know of some performance shops around here that are always looking to help out, some that know a heck of a lot about mustangs, and I’m prepared to spend whatever they cost (I mean nothing too insane, I’m not doing cortex coilovers or anything), but I will do it right.

Also I don’t know if I made it clear or not, I’m only doing coilovers in the front, unless something changes, I’m going for the divorced setup in the rear.

You COULD run coil overs, it’s not an issue, I’m just saying that you are paying a big premium for the tunability aspect, which you don’t NEED, but if you are planning on changing ride heights depending on the environment then I could see the appeal. I have some pictures of some cars on B and C springs that I will send over some time, probably tomorrow. They are decently low. Also, if you are planning on drag racing the car, I would do coil overs in the rear, instead of the front, for adjustability where it matters most. Since you mentioned a car that handles better in your other post though, maybe coil overs all around isn’t that bad an idea for you! All depends on the situation.

 

[Ansharky]

You COULD run coil overs, it’s not an issue, I’m just saying that you are paying a big premium for the tunability aspect, which you don’t NEED, but if you are planning on changing ride heights depending on the environment then I could see the appeal. I have some pictures of some cars on B and C springs that I will send over some time, probably tomorrow. They are decently low. Also, if you are planning on drag racing the car, I would do coil overs in the rear, instead of the front, for adjustability where it matters most. Since you mentioned a car that handles better in your other post though, maybe coil overs all around isn’t that bad an idea for you! All depends on the situation.

Was gonna go with adjustable rear lower control arms for the adjustability in the rear. MM said something about the placement of the coilovers in the rear and the length some manufacturers (feal) use could cause the coilovers to come loose when turning into an incline (ie: a driveway). But I honestly couldn’t tell you what he meant, just that he knew what he was talking about and was trying to save me money and headache.

 

[Terrorist 5.0]

Sounds like the guy is tugging your leg, nothing should just “come loose”, but the control arms are not a bad idea. More adjustability is always good, but only if you plan on using it.

 

[Ansharky]

Sounds like the guy is tugging your leg, nothing should just “come loose”, but the control arms are not a bad idea. More adjustability is always good, but only if you plan on using it.

I’m gonna call and ask again tomorrow, assuming I get the same guy. They give u a lot of advice as quickly as they can and I’m basically starting from nothing, so it wasn’t exactly easy to follow. Divorced setup is cheaper tho, and works fine for my purposes if I can still adjust the ride height. Not set on anything yet, save for a torque arm and panhard bar. We’re still in the early stages of the build, I have until the end of the year to get it on the road. It’s at a ford dealership my friend works at, and his boss says we have until the end of the year to get it out, or else I’ll be working on it in my gravel driveway again. I’m wanting to put new suspension on it while we’re putting the upgrades in the rear end, and the front suspension when we put the motor back in.

 

[abgray56]

I'd stay with one suppliers product. I have all MM suspension including coil overs with Koni SA dampers. Although we primarily use for autocross you could easily configure it for street use.

 

[badass98svt]

I have 350s up front and they are too stiff for me for the street. I have a set of 275# springs I need to swap in there. (MM recommendation for my application)

Edit: for the record, MM gave me the 275# recommendation based on my car specifically (no front swaybar, tubular K and control arms, extra weight from the turbo and piping/equipment etc

 

[cobrajeff96]

Keep in mind that the more grip a car has (dictated by tires as well as suspension geometry) the stiffer the springs and swaybars need to be or else there will be excessive roll in hard turns. That's probably the simplest aspect of the physics behind it all. It's also why if it's primarily a street car and on mostly stock geometry then you will most likely hate going stiffer and for many reasons.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

Do yourself a favor and dont mix and match brands. Every suspension company has their own idea/theory/outlook on suspension and what works best in X scenarios. Stay with one brand like mm, team z, strange, etc.

If you want a good suspension setup get some street/sport bilsteins from MM and call it a day. No need to go to crazy with all these different brands

Sport bilsteins with 350lb fronts and you can still stay with the conventional springs in the rear if you want it to be "budget"

If you have the means id tell you to do this:
Front
Sport Valved MM bilsteins with 300-350lb 10in springs
MM tubular A arms (slight modification to K member)
MM CC plates (or a good 3 post plate)
Bumpsteer kit

Rear
Ford Racing C spring (cut a coil if you want)
MM adjustable RLCAs with one end spherical (i think they offer that)
MM PHB
Eibach rear sway bar
Delete the quad shocks
Sport valved Bilsteins or SA Konis

 

[shovel]

Suspension is like motor oil and church, everyone knows everything and whatever they are doing is the best possible way to do it and everyone else is wrong.

Also when you just lower ride height on strut suspension your roll center drops by about 2.5x the amount of lowering so if you just put 2" lower springs (or lower it 2" with coilovers, etc) then your roll center gets ~3" further from the center of mass (5" lower in total) and then when you begin to lean on a corner your roll center moves toward a point below the outside wheel, which means that since your center of mass wants to move at a right angle to the roll center you get front lift on cornering. To counter this most people run stiffer springs and sway bars which makes handling on margin less progressive and easier to upset.

Spindles avoid this, as does not lowering.. but nobody's going to advise either of those things because spindles are expensive to manufacture and there's not as many things to $ell you if you're at stock height.

 

[95opal]

Suspension is like motor oil and church, everyone knows everything and whatever they are doing is the best possible way to do it and everyone else is wrong.

Also when you just lower ride height on strut suspension your roll center drops by about 2.5x the amount of lowering so if you just put 2" lower springs (or lower it 2" with coilovers, etc) then your roll center gets ~3" further from the center of mass (5" lower in total) and then when you begin to lean on a corner your roll center moves toward a point below the outside wheel, which means that since your center of mass wants to move at a right angle to the roll center you get front lift on cornering. To counter this most people run stiffer springs and sway bars which makes handling on margin less progressive and easier to upset.

Spindles avoid this, as does not lowering.. but nobody's going to advise either of those things because spindles are expensive to manufacture and there's not as many things to $ell you if you're at stock height.

Good points. A watts link will also allow for roll center adjustment hence why I would recommend it over a pan hard bar.

 

[shurur]

I’ve said this on another post similar to this about suspension, if you are not racing the car professionally, or are not going to be messing around with ride height on a regular basis, go with some lowering springs and some good shocks, not coil overs. Nobody ever really sets coil overs up properly, mostly just for ride height. They are expensive because of the tuning aspect, which people never use (or use properly). I personally got my car with lowering springs already (at least up front, I think the backs were cut), and it sits decently low, especially in the back. Handles fine.

@white95 is someone who could REALLY hone the coil overs for his ride. I don’t know if he runs them or not, although judging from what I’ve read about his car in the past, I am going to assume he does (I read his build thread a long time ago, don’t remember all the specifics sorry ). For someone like me, I am planning on changing my springs to some Ford Racing units, B or C, not sure yet. I made a long post about it a long time ago, asking people for pictures of their rides with B and C springs, to check the ride height since I wanted to raise my car up a little bit, and still do. That, and some decent shocks, and my car will handle decently, and for a better price than coil overs.

From what I’ve read about you and your car (quite the plans you’ve got for it!), I think you would be better off avoiding the coil overs.

Exactly.

I have H&R Race springs for the Cobra and feel every pebble.
They are virtually the same springs used on the 2000R!