T5 transmission hops out of gear if not put into gear JUST RIGHT

[DarkknightGT]

hello everyone! Been quite a while since I've last posted and was just inquiring about something. I have a 95 gt 5.0 with a world class t5. Whenever I don't shift it into gear JUST RIGHT, when I go to let the clutch out and am in the middle of accelerating, she sometimes likes to pop out of first gear, second is also a bit difficult sometimes as well, with it being the same result as soon as I let out the clutch and it hops out. I've been getting mixed signals because 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, and 4th to 5th all shift so smoothly! Even reverse works like a dream! It's the take off in 1st, and 1st to 2nd that need a bit of help. Someone said something about the shift boot, the only thing I know about anything transmission related is the clutch being replaced recently (pivot stud currently squeaks, dumby who had the car before didnt grease up the shaft or the stud.) School me on the knowledge of the t5 if you must. 20 years old and am still learning more and more about these awesome cars everyday! Thanks again.

 

[Methodical]

Do you have a short throw shift kit?

When I 1st installed my short throw kit and was trying to adjust it just right it would pop out of gear when I had it adjust to tight or too short of a throw (not sure if that's the correct term).

 

[Boosted94vert]

You can try adjusting the stops if you recently put a short shifter in…. But I would say the transmission is going to need a rebuild soon ..I’ve had that problem many of times second and third year popping out of gear and it was always a trans rebuild or a swap

 

[Mustang5L5]

First thing I would look at is the shifter and stops. If the shift forks aren't allowed to fully extend properly the dog teeth on the gears inside don't fully engage. There is a slight bevel to them so when they seat, they lock in place under load. If the gear isn't fully engaged, it will actually push the gears apart. It's possible a shift stop is preventing full range of the shifter rail.

Short of that, it's internal. Either the gears themselves are badly damaged, or the 1-2 shift fork could be cracked/broken and preventing full range of the slider into gear. Hopefully it's the shifter and not the latter.

 

[Boosted94vert]

yeah, I’m hoping that you check it out and it’s just the shifter…

 

[DarkknightGT]

Do you have a short throw shift kit?

When I 1st installed my short throw kit and was trying to adjust it just right it would pop out of gear when I had it adjust to tight or too short of a throw (not sure if that's the correct term).

Stock shifter! I thought it was a short throw too

 

[DarkknightGT]

First thing I would look at is the shifter and stops. If the shift forks aren't allowed to fully extend properly the dog teeth on the gears inside don't fully engage. There is a slight bevel to them so when they seat, they lock in place under load. If the gear isn't fully engaged, it will actually push the gears apart. It's possible a shift stop is preventing full range of the shifter rail.

Short of that, it's internal. Either the gears themselves are badly damaged, or the 1-2 shift fork could be cracked/broken and preventing full range of the slider into gear. Hopefully it's the shifter and not the latter.

So when opening it up, what would I be looking for? I've honestly never opened up one of these before so I'm a little skeptical about screwing something up, either way, I'll definitely let you guys know what I find.

 

[DarkknightGT]

yeah, I’m hoping that you check it out and it’s just the shifter…

Me too, she shifts good if I really get on it and go through the gears with a bit of OOMPH... which doesn't make any sense to me. I granny shift A LOT, and it doesn't like that too much, it likes a bit of roughness (giggity).

 

[Mustang5L5]

So when opening it up, what would I be looking for? I've honestly never opened up one of these before so I'm a little skeptical about screwing something up, either way, I'll definitely let you guys know what I find.

You are more concerned with the shifter stops that would be on an aftermarket shifter. Since yours is the stock shifter, these don't exist.

Upon removing the shifter, the only thing to check is the shifter cup that the shift ball sits into. Make sure it hasn't broken and that there is no play. Essentially what you are looking for is anything in the shifter that would prevent full extension of the shift rail into gear.

 

[DarkknightGT]

You are more concerned with the shifter stops that would be on an aftermarket shifter. Since yours is the stock shifter, these don't exist.

Upon removing the shifter, the only thing to check is the shifter cup that the shift ball sits into. Make sure it hasn't broken and that there is no play. Essentially what you are looking for is anything in the shifter that would prevent full extension of the shift rail into gear.

Alright, cause like I said above a bit earlier, the shifter works good when shifting into second with a bit of oomph and holding it a bit as well. So it may be that something is getting hung up somehow? I'm gonna look and see cause I got a cute little aftermarket shift knob

 

[SPeace-ATL]

All good comments and ideas!

If it has a stock shifter or one without shifter stops you can head on to looking at the internals of the T5. One rare exception is if something is tugging on the shifter handle or boot like a piece of carpet out of place, but even then it would be very unusual to affect both first and second since they would need tugs in opposite directions to pull them out of gear.

It is VERY common on a T5 for the synchro rings to wear. In 1992 they went to the improved carbon fiber rings for third and fourth but the first and second linings remained non-carbon fiber until 2011 when the T5 was no longer appearing in new cars. At that point all replacement 1-2 rings became carbon fiber and any aftermarket T5Z transmission made after 2011 will also have the carbon fiber rings.

So, the wear point for shifting with a weak or worn synchro ring will be the small engagement teeth on the side of the gears and the matching engagement teeth on the slider hub for the synchro. At this point the tips of both sets of teeth wear down. As was said earlier, those small teeth interlock and hold the slider engaged. This is because both sets of teeth are keystone shaped. Once the teeth are worn down and the keystone feature has been compromised it will tend to pop out of gear. Especially when accelerating. Typically, this is time for new synchro rings, a new synchro slider and probably a new gear as well. Fortunately, the carbon-fiber rings used today work better and it should hold up longer than originally!

One more thought. If one is continuing to drive a car that pops out of gear and the driver is holding the shifter to keep it in gear it won't take long to melt down the nylon pads on the shift fork. At that point shifting becomes extra "loose" and the aluminum fork will be rubbing directly on the hardened steel of the slider. It doesn't take long to wear down the fork requiring that it be replaced as well.

Stan

 

[Daryl]

Could the shift linkage be loose or out of whack? I don’t know as I’m certainly no transmission expert; just spit-balling from a KISS standpoint.

My (unsolicited!) $.02

 

[SPeace-ATL]

A reasonable thought, but there are no linkage parts on a T5 that come loose other than flat out breaking or loosening up from wear. In other words there are no nuts to shake loose other than those troublesome aftermarket shifter stop adjustors. The plastic shifter cup bushing under the shifter can break or wear, but that is pretty rare. That cup sits in what I call a shift anvil that is pinned to the shift rail.

Then there is a selector finger pinned to the shift rail up in the middle of the top cover. Those selector fingers have had a tendency to come loose and either fall out or move enough to cause a jam. There is now a one-piece selector finger used in the newer T5 transmissions that doesn't come apart. Next, there are two shift plates for the 1-2 and 3-4 forks. These link the selector finger on the shift rail to the two shift forks. These CAN crack and break which is fairly rare on a T5, but extremely, common on a T-45. All that is left in the linkage is the two forks themselves and the synchro assemblies.

So, there is nothing you can tighten up or adjust other than those pesky after-market shifter stops.

Stan

 

[Daryl]

A reasonable thought, but there are no linkage parts on a T5 that come loose other than flat out breaking or loosening up from wear. In other words there are no nuts to shake loose other than those troublesome aftermarket shifter stop adjustors. The plastic shifter cup bushing under the shifter can break or wear, but that is pretty rare. That cup sits in what I call a shift anvil that is pinned to the shift rail.

Then there is a selector finger pinned to the shift rail up in the middle of the top cover. Those selector fingers have had a tendency to come loose and either fall out or move enough to cause a jam. There is now a one-piece selector finger used in the newer T5 transmissions that doesn't come apart. Next, there are two shift plates for the 1-2 and 3-4 forks. These link the selector finger on the shift rail to the two shift forks. These CAN crack and break which is fairly rare on a T5, but extremely, common on a T-45. All that is left in the linkage is the two forks themselves and the synchro assemblies.

So, there is nothing you can tighten up or adjust other than those pesky after-market shifter stops.

Stan

Understood, thx! So obviously you did check it anyway. My mindset came from the scene in the movie Slingblade where they’re standing over a lawnmower that won’t run and “Carl” walks up, removes the gas cap and says, “it ain’t got no gas!”
Takeaway: don’t overlook the obvious!!

Cheers

 

[94IndyPace]

Sounds like synchros or bent shift forks.

 

[Alexi]

Sounds like your T5 might have worn synchros or shift forks in the lower gears, especially if it pops out under load. The clutch work could’ve exposed it since fresh engagement puts more stress on the trans. Check the shifter bushings and adjust the clutch cable sometimes improper clutch disengagement makes shifting rough. If that doesn’t help, the trans might need a rebuild. Keep driving it smooth and double-clutching helps if synchros are tired.

 

[weendoggy]

Is it me or are we missing something. Post is from a year ago without input from the OP since. Did it get resolved?

 

[DarkknightGT]

Is it me or are we missing something. Post is from a year ago without input from the OP since. Did it get resolved?

Sorry sir I did post this over a year ago! Just helped birth my first daughter a year ago and the mustang has been parked for a bit. I got a new clutch that i haven't thrown in yet, but from what I've been reading and what you guys have said, I think it does need a rebuild. The car's history is unknown to me but from what I understand it was a race car, meaning it was probably abused! So I apologize for not responding right away.

 

[DarkknightGT]

Sounds like your T5 might have worn synchros or shift forks in the lower gears, especially if it pops out under load. The clutch work could’ve exposed it since fresh engagement puts more stress on the trans. Check the shifter bushings and adjust the clutch cable sometimes improper clutch disengagement makes shifting rough. If that doesn’t help, the trans might need a rebuild. Keep driving it smooth and double-clutching helps if synchros are tired.

Tried double clutching, and it helped a bit but not much. I remember seeing you post this! Apologies i havent responded back

 

[DarkknightGT]

All good comments and ideas!

If it has a stock shifter or one without shifter stops you can head on to looking at the internals of the T5. One rare exception is if something is tugging on the shifter handle or boot like a piece of carpet out of place, but even then it would be very unusual to affect both first and second since they would need tugs in opposite directions to pull them out of gear.

It is VERY common on a T5 for the synchro rings to wear. In 1992 they went to the improved carbon fiber rings for third and fourth but the first and second linings remained non-carbon fiber until 2011 when the T5 was no longer appearing in new cars. At that point all replacement 1-2 rings became carbon fiber and any aftermarket T5Z transmission made after 2011 will also have the carbon fiber rings.

So, the wear point for shifting with a weak or worn synchro ring will be the small engagement teeth on the side of the gears and the matching engagement teeth on the slider hub for the synchro. At this point the tips of both sets of teeth wear down. As was said earlier, those small teeth interlock and hold the slider engaged. This is because both sets of teeth are keystone shaped. Once the teeth are worn down and the keystone feature has been compromised it will tend to pop out of gear. Especially when accelerating. Typically, this is time for new synchro rings, a new synchro slider and probably a new gear as well. Fortunately, the carbon-fiber rings used today work better and it should hold up longer than originally!

One more thought. If one is continuing to drive a car that pops out of gear and the driver is holding the shifter to keep it in gear it won't take long to melt down the nylon pads on the shift fork. At that point shifting becomes extra "loose" and the aluminum fork will be rubbing directly on the hardened steel of the slider. It doesn't take long to wear down the fork requiring that it be replaced as well.

Stan

Yeah I stopped driving the car after a bit! I love my mustang but I couldn't stand it any longer, I knew it was causing more damage than good, so I made the hardest decision ever: stop driving it. When tax season comes up I'm gonna see about getting a t5z, I can also get one through work too (I work for oreillys) because I know all they have for synchro rings now are gonna be the carbon fiber ones. They discontinued the paper ones a WHILE ago, so I guess its a win! Plus this car will not make any horsepower, I'm currently reverting it back to basically stock form: horizontal taillights, getting the convertible to work, while also saving for the transmission! I've also got a stock clutch and flywheel. Also gonna get rid of my cold air intake as my car doesn't run good with it at all (MAF gets pissed off)