The Past and Future of the SN95

[mcglsr2]

This is a tough one. i apologize in advanced if I state things obvious to some. The title says the past and future so ill start with the past

Lets focus on just the 96-98 cars performance for a second and what time they came from. They came from a time period when a 12 second car required a roll cage to run at the strip and 10 second cars were stupid fast. We have come along way since then. Now in 2016, 10 second cars require the roll cage and 8 second cars are stupid fast. Thats a HUGE difference.

Stock time for the The 98 Cobra is 13.8 - Stock 98 GT 15.1 - Stock 98 V6 17.0 Those are respectable times back then. Not Now. The f*cking Toyota Camry v6 2016 has a 0-60 of 5.8 seconds (Cobra stock is 5.4 seconds) The Camrys quartermile time is 14.3 @93! - Id say the current mustang lineup right now is the pace to follow The 4 cyl and 6 cyl is running high 13's and the GT is running 12.6-12.8. The Higher Performance models are minimum somewhere in the 11's.

Thats straight line, now as for turning were COMPLETELY behind the curve. Factory suspension is just awful. My 1997 is still factory stock, (as you know) my 1998 has full UPR suspension setup, their is a particular part of road i have in mind down at my local track. It is approx a mile straight away to a right curve. I wouldnt dare take that curve above 50 mph in the 1997 factory stock suspension. The Cobra I have taken it at approx 95-100 and that was playing it safe, it could have taken more but i wasnt about to push it any further just yet. Car drives like its on rails now that its modded and i wouldnt want it any-other way. Bringing me to my next point, I feel restomodded SN95's/Clean Factory Stock SN95s will be desired one day, ten years? EHHHH IDK im guessing a littleee bit longer. One of the reasons the desirable factor is low is because People are afraid to mod them to full potential because of book values. (something i do not care about because i wont be selling) Hell we all know a new supercharger setup alone can easily go 4500-6K in parts. 4500-6k... you can find an entire GT AND/or COBRA with mid mileage around that neighborhood of price right now, makes alot of folks hesitant. Another reason is simply lack of time to modify.

Some will want to buy em built, some will want as close to stock so they can modify it themselves. Then of-course you have those numbers matching, low miles, factorystock all-original car guys, (factory lover.) They will want to get them and preserve it if thats what your into. PEOPLE ARE SAVING THEM!


I know currently their are certain areas in the US which these cars can be found easily such as Louisiana or Texas but over here I RARELY see a 94-98 period, let alone a nice one, if i do its beat up to hell. I think eventually, (who knows how long) a nice example wont be so easy to find. Thats when desire will climb

I think I am confused by your post About 98% of it is why these cars won't at all be desirable in the future, and then you say at the end that desire will climb. Why? Just because they are old? They aren't around anymore? There are literally thousands of makes/models that are not around anymore. Why aren't those all collectors items? What makes the SN95 so special? So sure, maybe there is like *two* people in the world that will have the money and, for whatever reason, want a clean and well cared-for SN95. That doesn't mean they are collectible nor desirable.

Think of it this way: would you buy an early 80's Camaro? Do you think, that some guy with Lambo's, vintage Ferrari's, a couple Bugatti's, maybe even an early model Skyline is going to say "You know what, my collection just isn't complete. It's missing a 1984 Camaro." Not even an IROC-Z, mind you. Just a plain-jane Camaro. Of course that won't happen. So why would anyone think that's going to happen with the SN95's? (I'd even argue that Mr. Collector won't give a shit about the IROC-Z Camaro either).

So, are you saying the SN95's will be desirable/collectible? Or that they won't be?

I take back my previous statement after reading this. So this wealthy guy is a car collector who has a pretty big selection of cars and has a sweet spot for Corvettes. This statement right here pretty much applies to our Mustangs. Let's face it. They will never be worth all that much. Read this and see for yourselves.

"Tomorrow's Corvette will be WAY better than the best one right now. That you can count on. It will be faster, it will handle better, it will have more body integrity and it will be better even if its powered by hybrid/batteries. That is what technology does. This is true for any car that its entire merit is largely based on the numbers it turns on a dyno, the numbers it does 0-60, the numbers it does around a track, etc. If you buy the latest and greatest car, tomorrow will make a fool of you an reduce your investment drastically. It always does! Why play that game??? That is not collecting or investing in cars, its wasting money if you consider yourself in the car hobby. If you just want a new car and don't care, hey no problem at all, but do not ever think that car will be an investment in your lifetime. The cards are so stacked against you its not funny.

Then it goes the other way. I run into guys all the time that want to talk about how fast their 67 435 corvette is and how much its worth. These cars have seemed to have capped out for many reasons. The three I give them are performance, or lack there of, substance, or lack there of, and tolerance level. They are really hard to tolerate! Obviously guys talking about how fast these old cars are have not driven competitively enough to realize that a 90s Cadillac with a Northstar would make a fool of it, let alone a ZR1 of any year, ZO6 or whatever. People base the price and value on these cars not necessarily for their rareness, but for their performance, or in this case, historic performance. The awakening has put lots of reality into those that have tried to relive their youths through old performance cars. You just forgot what they were like, and when you get them, you don't like them! You will not have the fastest thing on the road with these old cars, in fact your current daily driver may even be faster and you just don't know it."

Exactly the reason the SN95's will not be classics. To be a classic, the car has to have that X-factor. Something about it that makes people just say "wow that is a beautiful car" or "wow, that is something special." It's not about how fast it goes. It's about what it is, what it stands for. Most daily drivers today will wipe the floor with old Muscle cars. But those Muscle cars defined an era. That is special. And one should notice that not ALL Muscle cars are desirable. Only a select few are really the collector's items. Do we really think that, of the SN95's generation, the SN95 stood out as "the car to have?" I sure don't. Furthermore, there was nothing special about the SN95's generation.

You guys get a chance, click over to youtube and watch a few clips of "petrolicious". This is a channel about owners of popular, but odd cars. Some ive never seen...ever. The channel mostly displays undesirable cars of the past and their owners personality. I feel like the sn95 rides along with owners of this show.

I'll check it out. I'm sure in the future there will be some college kid that comes across a SN95 and thinks hey, haven't seen one of those in a long while, Imma get me one and be different." But then for him to turn around and pay over $10,000 for it (because supposedly these cars will be desirable/collectible)? Yah. I just don't see it.

But hey, it won't be the first time I've been wrong.

 

[1998cobrasvt]

I think I am confused by your post About 98% of it is why these cars won't at all be desirable in the future, and then you say at the end that desire will climb. Why? Just because they are old? They aren't around anymore? There are literally thousands of makes/models that are not around anymore. Why aren't those all collectors items? What makes the SN95 so special? So sure, maybe there is like *two* people in the world that will have the money and, for whatever reason, want a clean and well cared-for SN95. That doesn't mean they are collectible nor desirable.

Think of it this way: would you buy an early 80's Camaro? Do you think, that some guy with Lambo's, vintage Ferrari's, a couple Bugatti's, maybe even an early model Skyline is going to say "You know what, my collection just isn't complete. It's missing a 1984 Camaro." Not even an IROC-Z, mind you. Just a plain-jane Camaro. Of course that won't happen. So why would anyone think that's going to happen with the SN95's? (I'd even argue that Mr. Collector won't give a shit about the IROC-Z Camaro either).

So, are you saying the SN95's will be desirable/collectible? Or that they won't be?



Exactly the reason the SN95's will not be classics. To be a classic, the car has to have that X-factor. Something about it that makes people just say "wow that is a beautiful car" or "wow, that is something special." It's not about how fast it goes. It's about what it is, what it stands for. Most daily drivers today will wipe the floor with old Muscle cars. But those Muscle cars defined an era. That is special. And one should notice that not ALL Muscle cars are desirable. Only a select few are really the collector's items. Do we really think that, of the SN95's generation, the SN95 stood out as "the car to have?" I sure don't. Furthermore, there was nothing special about the SN95's generation.




But hey, it won't be the first time I've been wrong.

"I think I am confused by your post

About 98% of it is why these cars won't at all be desirable in the future, and then you say at the end that desire will climb."


Sorry for not being more clear, you pretty much got what i was trying to say-ish. 98% of what was said in my last post explained where they came from & where they stand (factory stock) in todays performance world and why book value plays a major part in the fact that these cars are not seeing the modifications they deserve,

Sure they are behind the curve from the factory but restomodding is a great answer to that problem. If "you" care about book value forget the idea of fully modernizing it now, however not everyone "you" see on the road in a mustang NEEDS to be keeping up with modern speed. I still enjoy driving the 97 even though its slow and out dated by modern performance standards. I do think they will gain some desirability down the line, how long that line is and how high the desirability factor is indeed questionable and your Camaro Iroc points are valid, to your average Lamborghini rich guy, they probably wouldn't think twice about the IROC, but then go to Wayne Carani's garage and he has anything from some of the most pristine classic cars to exotics to mustangs and Irocs and corvettes and m3s. - Its funny you mention Iroc, i have a family member who had an Iroc in the late 80s through the 90s but had to sell it for his kids, he has told me recently the time has almost come to find another one. I think previous owners will desire them more then anything.



"wow that is a beautiful car" or "wow, that is something special." That has been said to me about my car by many different mustang enthusiasts in my state, all different ages and generations. Lots of people have love for the SN here, Personally, their are very few 90's sports cars that catch my attention looks alone. The sn95 when resto-modded just looks gorgeous to me and many others have said the same that i can recall over at the local cars and coffee in 2015 alone. Just for a quick example, officer approached me to tell me he loved the car and had one in highschool and was thinking about finding another one etc etc etc. Thats just one example of many, it invokes positive conversation all the time. Some people (especially the "next generation" of enthusiasts who had these cars growing up) are passionate for these cars and will desire them, some just like them for what they are. Lets use the AMC/AMX for example. They might not be in the top of the list of "desirable's" from the 60s, they sure don't bring top dollar (averages 17k) like say a late 60s Fastback, Shelby or Mopar with provenance but they arent worthless either, this is all speculation of course but i think their will always be a following for the sn95.


"It's not about how fast it goes. It's about what it is, what it stands for. Most daily drivers today will wipe the floor with old Muscle cars. But those Muscle cars defined an era. That is special. And one should notice that not ALL Muscle cars are desirable. Only a select few are really the collector's items. Do we really think that, of the SN95's generation, the SN95 stood out as "the car to have?" I sure don't. Furthermore, there was nothing special about the SN95's generation."

That is one of the reasons people buy, but what about the other? If i had a dollar for every-time at the car shows I heard the owner of a 1950-1970's car say "Ive always wanted this car since I was a kid" or "I bought this car to relive my youth" or "i drove this in highschool/college" id be rich. Not that this is a negative or anything, thats awesome, my point being i think history will repeat itself eventually and ALOT of the future buyers will be previous owners of sn95's with grey hair .

 

[TTSaleen]

Having owned a few SN95 models (2-95GTs, 98Cobra, 98TTSaleen), I can say that they will probably never be collector items.
Even now you can find super low mileage SN95 Cobras for reasonable prices.
However I would think the special edition models may retain a little more value and collect-ability.

For example, a S351 Saleen mustang continues to command top dollar in the $20k range.
However your average GT SN95 seems to be in the mid $5k range.

The cool part about that is, my kid will be able to have a 1st mustang when she is of driving age.
The SN95 models would be a perfect "starter kit" and allow her to not only afford buying one, but also the ability to modify/customize it to her liking with the vast majority of aftermarket parts available.

Ryan

 

[1998cobrasvt]

Having owned a few SN95 models (2-95GTs, 98Cobra, 98TTSaleen), I can say that they will probably never be collector items.
Even now you can find super low mileage SN95 Cobras for reasonable prices.
However I would think the special edition models may retain a little more value and collect-ability.

For example, a S351 Saleen mustang continues to command top dollar in the $20k range.
However your average GT SN95 seems to be in the mid $5k range.

The cool part about that is, my kid will be able to have a 1st mustang when she is of driving age.
The SN95 models would be a perfect "starter kit" and allow her to not only afford buying one, but also the ability to modify/customize it to her liking with the vast majority of aftermarket parts available.

Ryan

They will never reach the level that say a 2005 Ford GT is in "desirability" and "collect-ability" and bookvalues, (MSRP approx 200k now they are worth 350-400k) but the SN will always be loved and have a following! Perhaps when they become harder to get a hold of EVERYWHERE only then will price increase and even then that price rise will most likely be barely significant.

 

[lutter94]

The SN95 models would be a perfect "starter kit" and allow her to not only afford buying one, but also the ability to modify/customize it to her liking with the vast majority of aftermarket parts available.
Ryan

I think you just described just about all Mustangs ever built (with the exception of the II). There are a lot more options out there for S197 parts, and the basic V6/GT models will continue to drop in price. Your description is why Mustangs have always had/will have a huge-mongous following.

 

[1998cobrasvt]

I think you just described just about all Mustangs ever built (with the exception of the II). There are a lot more options out there for S197 parts, and the basic V6/GT models will continue to drop in price. Your description is why Mustangs have always had/will have a huge-mongous following.

Yup, the S197 values have been plummeting.

"Your description is why Mustangs have always had/will have a huge-mongous following."

Agreed Lutter, "pick your flavor" so to speak, And thats^ one of the reasons I do not think the SN95 will be thrown to the curb.

 

[mcglsr2]

I think we need to define terms, specifically "collectible." In other words, the difference between cars that are considered "collectible" versus those where "there will be lots of options, they are easy mod and the mods are cheap."

What you are all describing are the reasons that some people will consider finding and buying older versions of these cars in the future. But that doesn't make them "collectible." The sheer number of them make them "accessible."

Go Google for lists of cars that are considered collectible. Then take the cars listed there and compare production numbers versus Mustangs. I'm willing to bet a dollar you will see quite a discrepancy for the majority of cars on those lists.

The only Mustangs I can see being even remotely collectible are the limited run versions someone else mentioned, like some Roush's, maybe the Termi Cobra, etc. But run-of-the-mill SN95s? I doubt it. But time will tell. Lastly, just because in 10 years time one can no longer find many SN95's and some guy wants to try to sell his for $20,000 doesn't mean someone will buy it, nor does that make it a "collectors item."

 

[1998cobrasvt]

I think we need to define terms, specifically "collectible." In other words, the difference between cars that are considered "collectible" versus those where "there will be lots of options, they are easy mod and the mods are cheap."

What you are all describing are the reasons that some people will consider finding and buying older versions of these cars in the future. But that doesn't make them "collectible." The sheer number of them make them "accessible."

Go Google for lists of cars that are considered collectible. Then take the cars listed there and compare production numbers versus Mustangs. I'm willing to bet a dollar you will see quite a discrepancy for the majority of cars on those lists.

The only Mustangs I can see being even remotely collectible are the limited run versions someone else mentioned, like some Roush's, maybe the Termi Cobra, etc. But run-of-the-mill SN95s? I doubt it. But time will tell. Lastly, just because in 10 years time one can no longer find many SN95's and some guy wants to try to sell his for $20,000K doesn't mean someone will buy it, nor does that make it a "collectors item."

Agreed, now we are on the same page! i was defining collectible 100% differently, and by no means will they be on par with the collectible list you and I have in mind.

"Lastly, just because in 10 years time one can no longer find many SN95's and some guy wants to try to sell his for $20,000K doesn't mean someone will buy it, nor does that make it a "collectors item." "


I agree, your absolutely right. I did say value would only be moderately affected at best. I do not expect these cars to bring any one a profit, just a good time. :thumbsup:

 

[Thomas_W]

Honestly i dont even think the majority of the specialty SN's will be all that collectible, other than some overpriced (opinion) upgrades, most were still stock SN's.

The SN's that will be collectible are the rarities. 95 Cobra R, low production # saleen's, stage 3 roush', 2000 cobra R, etc.

 

[JerZeyStangz]

Unfortunately limited production run of extreme sn95's like mentioned above like the 95 R, 95 Cobra Hard top removable, 00 R, and Top tier sn95 Saleen's like the s351's including the 99's with pushrod engines that saleen continued on will get bought and put into collector garages, oh yeah in Roush stage 2 and 3's can't forget.

I remember seeing 94/95 white cobra go on barret jackson being sold for less 7k with average miles, I do not really remember the miles but i'm assuming that it was low miles since it went to barret jackson. This is why I am building my mustangs to the moon because they are perfect building blocks to be fun cars in whatever you like such as drag racing, circuit racing, 1/2th racing, Hill Climb, auto-x....etc.

One thing I have noticed is that people generally do appreciate a clean modded sn95 GT or Cobra since they are no longer on road. I wanted to drive my mustang after being in the garage for a few months since winter is dying down and as soon as pulled to the pizza shop some guy asked me how much? This is happening more and more because last year I keep getting people asking how much would I sell my car for. They aren't forking over a lot of money but it does drum up interest. Most of the sn95's in my area are run down V6/convertibles. Its rare to see sn95's on the road which leads me to my next point. GRAB a new edge GT or Cobra because they are next ones to receive the treatment as the 94-98 Cars. The prices are really low and you can make one into a sick project car if you want. You can find them being stock which is how I found my 96 GT over 10 years ago.