The right cylinder heads and boost - SC Guys come in

Discussion in '96-04 - 2V Specific' started by JerZeyStangz, May 28, 2014.

  1. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    I believe I am true gear head. I am constantly changing my mind about what would be a lethal potent combination under 700 horse power. I want your guys opinion! Recently I made a thread about Kennebell + trickflow heads and maxing out the stock block but I got to thinking...

    What would would be a better combination, (trickflow heads + D1 Procharger) or (Kennebell 2.1 + Ported PI heads). What do you think would be a lethal combination for the street and why? Sometimes people fall into the trap of getting the biggest blower but sometimes that is not necessary. I rather would be fast in my bracket of power/racing. No matter what the shortblock would be built in the future, I just want to know what route would you perfer for the street. Mind you fuel and supporting mods come into a play here as well.

    Tell me about your experiences....
     
  2. 97stanger

    97stanger Legend

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    There is definitely way more potential with the TF heads and a D1 blower than the 2.1 and PI heads...but with that comes more $$. It's honestly just a preference whether you like the centri type blower vs a KB style. Guys who run centri will say to go centri, guys who run a KB will tell you to go KB. If at all possible, I would just recommend going for a ride in each and seeing which is more of your style.
     
  3. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    I've been in both and the positive displacement blower is a lot more fun but my only concern is on the highway. The procharger will definitely out shine the KB but I do a mixture of both types of driving. You are right though, the D1 and TFS heads will be a lot more expensive but if its just as fun as KB I would go that route. Do you know when a PI intake manifold will max out? I heard past 600hp thats when you start running into flow restrictions. What do you think, I know you run a centri so how do you like your car for street manners.
     
  4. 97stanger

    97stanger Legend

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    It honestly depends on the setup. I have been in a 500rwhp KB setup that felt slower than a 350rwhp centri setup because it had absolutely no traction, and vice versa. I personally know 2 guys running PI intakes in the 575rwhp and 620rwhp range, but yeah that seems to be about the max of them. When pushing that range, usually your boost is 15+ which causes the issues. Some would say that my setup does not have street manners because its a V7 blower, high stall converter, meth injected, yada yada but I mean you see me drive it to the American Muscle shows every year and thats an hour and a half drive. Gas isn't the best but you get the idea lol. I'm going to be running a 50-100 shot on top of my setup and planning on doing it this winter. One thing I really like about a centri setup with an overdrive crank pulley is that I can literally drive hours and not even see 1 psi, but when I go WOT my boost pegs to 11-12 right off the pedal due to the 8 rib setup and overdrive crank
     
  5. Wichers123

    Wichers123 Well-Known Member

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    If you want the best of both worlds then turbo is the way to go. A proper sized turbo will get you there easy
     
  6. nightfire

    nightfire Member

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    Ive got 1 of each. Ive got a D1 with ported/machined PI heads. It put down 523rwhp and I run 10's consistently. If your primary goal is fun on the street, then the KB is probably what you want. I've also got a stalled/built/geared auto so I have no problem down low.....and the D1 just absolutely rips up top.
     
  7. DropTopPony

    DropTopPony Administrator Staff Member Admin SN95 Supporter

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    Sometimes $$$$$ can dictate the route you go also. You may be set on one thing and something else falls in your lap that may change things.

    I honestly think you can't go wrong with any of the above options including the Turbo ,which if I was just buying an SN now and didn't have anything bought yet, would be the route I went.

    Now you need to look deeper into what Mike was saying about with more power comes more $$$$ because once you upgrade one thing, something else may now be at its limit.

    Pick a goal, whether thats based on power, money or usage and go from there.

    I have found that IMO a daily driver SN over 500hp can be unrealistic and unreliable. Its completely different then a Coyote that can knock down 550rwhp and get 24mpg. If you are just looking for a fun and fast street car anything in the 400-500 hp level will be more than enough to get you in trouble and that range can be reached easily.
     
  8. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    I really like the centri setups, but they have to be setup just right. My power goal is to be under 600hp to tell you the truth even with a built short block, anything past those power levels you have to upgrade everything and it is not worth it, plus the power is unuasble where I live since it is so densely populated. I believe the twin screw have the same features, but once you get into boost it is a different story. I was also looking at lysholm 2.3L twin screw blower but I do not think they make them for the 2V's anymore. They made a few that came on saleen extremes, they are slightly more powerful then KB2.1's. I also love the fact that on the highway a centri feels like it is forever pulling once its fully spun up.

    A proper turbo is awesome but I hate that you have to devote the headers to spool it. It kills some of the rawness from the V8 at w.o.t, but I understand where you coming from.

    The kennebell will be lots of fun on the street but can a brother have a best of both worlds? Would having a really low compression long block make the car feel like a dog down low on the street?

    I drive a turbo audi for a daily so the SN stays in the garage. It used to have daily driver duty about 4 years ago. Now I am just slowly restoring all the worn out parts that is on it and turning it into a fun car again. Money does dictate what route you go but right now I am trying to stay under a 10-12k budget. I am not married yet, and I have the freedom to mod the car to how I like since I am getting into my career. If I do not mod this car now, it will take forever once you compound wife, kids, house etc priorities change.
     
  9. nightfire

    nightfire Member

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    Is converting to E85 an option for you? Im running a 9.5 CR, which is about as high as I could go with the shitty fuel here (no E85). If I could do it over again and had access to E85, Id go with high CR and boost. The KB should help down low with a low CR. Low compression with a centri/turbo would suck lol
     
  10. DropTopPony

    DropTopPony Administrator Staff Member Admin SN95 Supporter

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    We don't have a lot of E85 here in NJ :(


    Definitely get it done before the family thing starts, that is why I have not been able to complete mine. A career change along with a 1 and 3 year old put a dent in the extra spending pile but kids are old enough that wife is back to work and the reserve is building back up to free spending level again.
     
  11. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Perhaps you should focus on how to apply the power into traction, because past 350rwtq....traction becomes a major issue in all the gears. You will have a faster high rpm horsepower engine compared to tons of off idle torque+ hp.
     
  12. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    No e85 here man. The highest octane we got were I live is 94 I believe from the Sunoco gas station in my town. Positive displacement blowers work more efficiently from what I read with really low compression but if I run a centri I do not want it that low. 9-10CR should be nice for a good peppy engine.

    I agree man, the family and wife chapters are coming up in my life and I want the car atleast almost complete before that starts. I know how that goes and everything takes the back door with passions/hobbies. I'm glad your building your reserve up again, it feels good to put B/S/T into your mustang.

    Subframe connectors, LCA's, UCA's, would do the trick. Suspension will be done before the heavy engine work. What's the point having all that power if it can go fast in a straight line. Tire + Suspension = WIN
     
  13. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Idk mang. A modular buddy here in town has built up a 5.4l 4v 1000rwhp F150 and believe me when I say its pointless! He had a competitive edge around 600rwhp at his weight, but now its just ridiculous.
     
  14. nightfire

    nightfire Member

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    Ok, my bottom line will be this...a D1 is FAAAAAR superior to a 2.1 KB. So, if you cant go bigger than a 2.1, this is a no-brainer. The 2.1 hits its max potention in the 400rwhp range. The D1 can spin efficiently into the 80rwhp range. So if you cant go anything above a 2.1, the D1 is by far the better choice.
     
  15. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree about having a "competitive edge" at a certain power level. A lot of people can't grasp this concept, do your want a tire burner or a car that hooks AND books!

    D1 has a lot of room to grow this is why I like this blower you can run it at different boost settings and get different power out puts out of it. I feel like its a blower that is properly sized for our engines. Anything bigger than that you need more cubes to push the power. F1A to C I feel like you need 331 cubes or more for efficiency.
     
  16. nightfire

    nightfire Member

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    Im running 16lbs on 91 pump on a 9.5 CR with no problems. You could definitely get away with a 10 CR on 94, especially at lower boost. I also live in TX with sun-like summer temps.

    Anything above a D1 is overkill on a street car. The D1 is a proven 8 sec blower, you're not going to see that with anything below a 2.8 KB Mammoth (I don't even think a KB Mammoth is capable of 8's). A 10:1 CR would definitely help the low end of a centri.
     
  17. 97stanger

    97stanger Legend

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    I agree with nightfire. I wouldn't be afraid to run 9.5:1 - 10:1 with a centri. Just run 94 octane. Hell, coyotes have 11:1 CR and guys are boosting them no problem. I think if you did a nice 9.5:1 - 10:1 piston, some worked PI heads, custom blower cams, D1 & intercooler, you'd have a super fun street car that could be reliably driven.
     
  18. JerZeyStangz

    JerZeyStangz Well-Known Member

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    that is good to know, temps in NJ stay relatively low most of the year except for summer. I would like a higher compression motor because I do not want the engine to be doggy on the street a low RPMS. I know KB's would love 8:5:1 but the low end torque they make makes up for it. I already have 75MM TB/Plenum so a ported PI intake and some nice heads will really wrap it up!


    I like that cocktail! Sounds like it has potential to make some great street power and stay reliable. When do you need a 8-rib setup?
     
  19. 97stanger

    97stanger Legend

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    Every car is different, usually with Prochargers you are fine getting away with 6 rib. Vortech's you will end up going 8 rib because of how small the blower pulleys get just to push 15 + psi. I'm by no means a Procharger expert but a lot of my buddy's running them and pushing 550-600rwhp are still 6 rib
     
  20. nightfire

    nightfire Member

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    The step-up ratio's in the Prochargers are higher than Vortech/Paxtons, allowing for a larger sized pulley to equal the same amount of boost that a smaller pulley would on the Vortech/Paxton. Im running a 3" pulley on my D1 and see 12-14lbs (my heads are ported to hell). A 3" pulley on a stock heads/cam 2V would yield roughly 16-18lbs. I am on the verge of slipping, but no problems so far. If I start to slip, I'll coat the pulley for $80.