The right cylinder heads and boost - SC Guys come in

JerZeyStangz

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I believe I am true gear head. I am constantly changing my mind about what would be a lethal potent combination under 700 horse power. I want your guys opinion! Recently I made a thread about Kennebell + trickflow heads and maxing out the stock block but I got to thinking...

What would would be a better combination, (trickflow heads + D1 Procharger) or (Kennebell 2.1 + Ported PI heads). What do you think would be a lethal combination for the street and why? Sometimes people fall into the trap of getting the biggest blower but sometimes that is not necessary. I rather would be fast in my bracket of power/racing. No matter what the shortblock would be built in the future, I just want to know what route would you perfer for the street. Mind you fuel and supporting mods come into a play here as well.

Tell me about your experiences....
 

97stanger

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There is definitely way more potential with the TF heads and a D1 blower than the 2.1 and PI heads...but with that comes more $$. It's honestly just a preference whether you like the centri type blower vs a KB style. Guys who run centri will say to go centri, guys who run a KB will tell you to go KB. If at all possible, I would just recommend going for a ride in each and seeing which is more of your style.
 
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JerZeyStangz

JerZeyStangz

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There is definitely way more potential with the TF heads and a D1 blower than the 2.1 and PI heads...but with that comes more $$. It's honestly just a preference whether you like the centri type blower vs a KB style. Guys who run centri will say to go centri, guys who run a KB will tell you to go KB. If at all possible, I would just recommend going for a ride in each and seeing which is more of your style.

I've been in both and the positive displacement blower is a lot more fun but my only concern is on the highway. The procharger will definitely out shine the KB but I do a mixture of both types of driving. You are right though, the D1 and TFS heads will be a lot more expensive but if its just as fun as KB I would go that route. Do you know when a PI intake manifold will max out? I heard past 600hp thats when you start running into flow restrictions. What do you think, I know you run a centri so how do you like your car for street manners.
 

97stanger

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I've been in both and the positive displacement blower is a lot more fun but my only concern is on the highway. The procharger will definitely out shine the KB but I do a mixture of both types of driving. You are right though, the D1 and TFS heads will be a lot more expensive but if its just as fun as KB I would go that route. Do you know when a PI intake manifold will max out? I heard past 600hp thats when you start running into flow restrictions. What do you think, I know you run a centri so how do you like your car for street manners.

It honestly depends on the setup. I have been in a 500rwhp KB setup that felt slower than a 350rwhp centri setup because it had absolutely no traction, and vice versa. I personally know 2 guys running PI intakes in the 575rwhp and 620rwhp range, but yeah that seems to be about the max of them. When pushing that range, usually your boost is 15+ which causes the issues. Some would say that my setup does not have street manners because its a V7 blower, high stall converter, meth injected, yada yada but I mean you see me drive it to the American Muscle shows every year and thats an hour and a half drive. Gas isn't the best but you get the idea lol. I'm going to be running a 50-100 shot on top of my setup and planning on doing it this winter. One thing I really like about a centri setup with an overdrive crank pulley is that I can literally drive hours and not even see 1 psi, but when I go WOT my boost pegs to 11-12 right off the pedal due to the 8 rib setup and overdrive crank
 

nightfire

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Ive got 1 of each. Ive got a D1 with ported/machined PI heads. It put down 523rwhp and I run 10's consistently. If your primary goal is fun on the street, then the KB is probably what you want. I've also got a stalled/built/geared auto so I have no problem down low.....and the D1 just absolutely rips up top.
 

DropTopPony

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Sometimes $$$$$ can dictate the route you go also. You may be set on one thing and something else falls in your lap that may change things.

I honestly think you can't go wrong with any of the above options including the Turbo ,which if I was just buying an SN now and didn't have anything bought yet, would be the route I went.

Now you need to look deeper into what Mike was saying about with more power comes more $$$$ because once you upgrade one thing, something else may now be at its limit.

Pick a goal, whether thats based on power, money or usage and go from there.

I have found that IMO a daily driver SN over 500hp can be unrealistic and unreliable. Its completely different then a Coyote that can knock down 550rwhp and get 24mpg. If you are just looking for a fun and fast street car anything in the 400-500 hp level will be more than enough to get you in trouble and that range can be reached easily.
 
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JerZeyStangz

JerZeyStangz

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It honestly depends on the setup. I have been in a 500rwhp KB setup that felt slower than a 350rwhp centri setup because it had absolutely no traction, and vice versa. I personally know 2 guys running PI intakes in the 575rwhp and 620rwhp range, but yeah that seems to be about the max of them. When pushing that range, usually your boost is 15+ which causes the issues. Some would say that my setup does not have street manners because its a V7 blower, high stall converter, meth injected, yada yada but I mean you see me drive it to the American Muscle shows every year and thats an hour and a half drive. Gas isn't the best but you get the idea lol. I'm going to be running a 50-100 shot on top of my setup and planning on doing it this winter. One thing I really like about a centri setup with an overdrive crank pulley is that I can literally drive hours and not even see 1 psi, but when I go WOT my boost pegs to 11-12 right off the pedal due to the 8 rib setup and overdrive crank

I really like the centri setups, but they have to be setup just right. My power goal is to be under 600hp to tell you the truth even with a built short block, anything past those power levels you have to upgrade everything and it is not worth it, plus the power is unuasble where I live since it is so densely populated. I believe the twin screw have the same features, but once you get into boost it is a different story. I was also looking at lysholm 2.3L twin screw blower but I do not think they make them for the 2V's anymore. They made a few that came on saleen extremes, they are slightly more powerful then KB2.1's. I also love the fact that on the highway a centri feels like it is forever pulling once its fully spun up.

If you want the best of both worlds then turbo is the way to go. A proper sized turbo will get you there easy

A proper turbo is awesome but I hate that you have to devote the headers to spool it. It kills some of the rawness from the V8 at w.o.t, but I understand where you coming from.

Ive got 1 of each. Ive got a D1 with ported/machined PI heads. It put down 523rwhp and I run 10's consistently. If your primary goal is fun on the street, then the KB is probably what you want. I've also got a stalled/built/geared auto so I have no problem down low.....and the D1 just absolutely rips up top.

The kennebell will be lots of fun on the street but can a brother have a best of both worlds? Would having a really low compression long block make the car feel like a dog down low on the street?

Sometimes $$$$$ can dictate the route you go also. You may be set on one thing and something else falls in your lap that may change things.

I honestly think you can't go wrong with any of the above options including the Turbo ,which if I was just buying an SN now and didn't have anything bought yet, would be the route I went.

Now you need to look deeper into what Mike was saying about with more power comes more $$$$ because once you upgrade one thing, something else may now be at its limit.

Pick a goal, whether thats based on power, money or usage and go from there.

I have found that IMO a daily driver SN over 500hp can be unrealistic and unreliable. Its completely different then a Coyote that can knock down 550rwhp and get 24mpg. If you are just looking for a fun and fast street car anything in the 400-500 hp level will be more than enough to get you in trouble and that range can be reached easily.

I drive a turbo audi for a daily so the SN stays in the garage. It used to have daily driver duty about 4 years ago. Now I am just slowly restoring all the worn out parts that is on it and turning it into a fun car again. Money does dictate what route you go but right now I am trying to stay under a 10-12k budget. I am not married yet, and I have the freedom to mod the car to how I like since I am getting into my career. If I do not mod this car now, it will take forever once you compound wife, kids, house etc priorities change.
 

nightfire

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Is converting to E85 an option for you? Im running a 9.5 CR, which is about as high as I could go with the shitty fuel here (no E85). If I could do it over again and had access to E85, Id go with high CR and boost. The KB should help down low with a low CR. Low compression with a centri/turbo would suck lol
 

DropTopPony

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We don't have a lot of E85 here in NJ :(


Definitely get it done before the family thing starts, that is why I have not been able to complete mine. A career change along with a 1 and 3 year old put a dent in the extra spending pile but kids are old enough that wife is back to work and the reserve is building back up to free spending level again.
 

96blak54

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Perhaps you should focus on how to apply the power into traction, because past 350rwtq....traction becomes a major issue in all the gears. You will have a faster high rpm horsepower engine compared to tons of off idle torque+ hp.
 
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JerZeyStangz

JerZeyStangz

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Is converting to E85 an option for you? Im running a 9.5 CR, which is about as high as I could go with the shitty fuel here (no E85). If I could do it over again and had access to E85, Id go with high CR and boost. The KB should help down low with a low CR. Low compression with a centri/turbo would suck lol

No e85 here man. The highest octane we got were I live is 94 I believe from the Sunoco gas station in my town. Positive displacement blowers work more efficiently from what I read with really low compression but if I run a centri I do not want it that low. 9-10CR should be nice for a good peppy engine.

We don't have a lot of E85 here in NJ :(


Definitely get it done before the family thing starts, that is why I have not been able to complete mine. A career change along with a 1 and 3 year old put a dent in the extra spending pile but kids are old enough that wife is back to work and the reserve is building back up to free spending level again.

I agree man, the family and wife chapters are coming up in my life and I want the car atleast almost complete before that starts. I know how that goes and everything takes the back door with passions/hobbies. I'm glad your building your reserve up again, it feels good to put B/S/T into your mustang.

Perhaps you should focus on how to apply the power into traction, because past 350rwtq....traction becomes a major issue in all the gears. You will have a faster high rpm horsepower engine compared to tons of off idle torque+ hp.

Subframe connectors, LCA's, UCA's, would do the trick. Suspension will be done before the heavy engine work. What's the point having all that power if it can go fast in a straight line. Tire + Suspension = WIN
 

96blak54

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Idk mang. A modular buddy here in town has built up a 5.4l 4v 1000rwhp F150 and believe me when I say its pointless! He had a competitive edge around 600rwhp at his weight, but now its just ridiculous.
 

nightfire

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Ok, my bottom line will be this...a D1 is FAAAAAR superior to a 2.1 KB. So, if you cant go bigger than a 2.1, this is a no-brainer. The 2.1 hits its max potention in the 400rwhp range. The D1 can spin efficiently into the 80rwhp range. So if you cant go anything above a 2.1, the D1 is by far the better choice.
 
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JerZeyStangz

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Idk mang. A modular buddy here in town has built up a 5.4l 4v 1000rwhp F150 and believe me when I say its pointless! He had a competitive edge around 600rwhp at his weight, but now its just ridiculous.

I totally agree about having a "competitive edge" at a certain power level. A lot of people can't grasp this concept, do your want a tire burner or a car that hooks AND books!

Ok, my bottom line will be this...a D1 is FAAAAAR superior to a 2.1 KB. So, if you cant go bigger than a 2.1, this is a no-brainer. The 2.1 hits its max potention in the 400rwhp range. The D1 can spin efficiently into the 80rwhp range. So if you cant go anything above a 2.1, the D1 is by far the better choice.

D1 has a lot of room to grow this is why I like this blower you can run it at different boost settings and get different power out puts out of it. I feel like its a blower that is properly sized for our engines. Anything bigger than that you need more cubes to push the power. F1A to C I feel like you need 331 cubes or more for efficiency.
 

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Im running 16lbs on 91 pump on a 9.5 CR with no problems. You could definitely get away with a 10 CR on 94, especially at lower boost. I also live in TX with sun-like summer temps.

Anything above a D1 is overkill on a street car. The D1 is a proven 8 sec blower, you're not going to see that with anything below a 2.8 KB Mammoth (I don't even think a KB Mammoth is capable of 8's). A 10:1 CR would definitely help the low end of a centri.
 

97stanger

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I agree with nightfire. I wouldn't be afraid to run 9.5:1 - 10:1 with a centri. Just run 94 octane. Hell, coyotes have 11:1 CR and guys are boosting them no problem. I think if you did a nice 9.5:1 - 10:1 piston, some worked PI heads, custom blower cams, D1 & intercooler, you'd have a super fun street car that could be reliably driven.
 
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JerZeyStangz

JerZeyStangz

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Im running 16lbs on 91 pump on a 9.5 CR with no problems. You could definitely get away with a 10 CR on 94, especially at lower boost. I also live in TX with sun-like summer temps.

Anything above a D1 is overkill on a street car. The D1 is a proven 8 sec blower, you're not going to see that with anything below a 2.8 KB Mammoth (I don't even think a KB Mammoth is capable of 8's). A 10:1 CR would definitely help the low end of a centri.

that is good to know, temps in NJ stay relatively low most of the year except for summer. I would like a higher compression motor because I do not want the engine to be doggy on the street a low RPMS. I know KB's would love 8:5:1 but the low end torque they make makes up for it. I already have 75MM TB/Plenum so a ported PI intake and some nice heads will really wrap it up!


I agree with nightfire. I wouldn't be afraid to run 9.5:1 - 10:1 with a centri. Just run 94 octane. Hell, coyotes have 11:1 CR and guys are boosting them no problem. I think if you did a nice 9.5:1 - 10:1 piston, some worked PI heads, custom blower cams, D1 & intercooler, you'd have a super fun street car that could be reliably driven.

I like that cocktail! Sounds like it has potential to make some great street power and stay reliable. When do you need a 8-rib setup?
 

97stanger

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Every car is different, usually with Prochargers you are fine getting away with 6 rib. Vortech's you will end up going 8 rib because of how small the blower pulleys get just to push 15 + psi. I'm by no means a Procharger expert but a lot of my buddy's running them and pushing 550-600rwhp are still 6 rib
 

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The step-up ratio's in the Prochargers are higher than Vortech/Paxtons, allowing for a larger sized pulley to equal the same amount of boost that a smaller pulley would on the Vortech/Paxton. Im running a 3" pulley on my D1 and see 12-14lbs (my heads are ported to hell). A 3" pulley on a stock heads/cam 2V would yield roughly 16-18lbs. I am on the verge of slipping, but no problems so far. If I start to slip, I'll coat the pulley for $80.
 

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