Voodoo flat plane crank

Discussion in 'General Tech' started by Frank.JD.Perez, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. Frank.JD.Perez

    Frank.JD.Perez Well-Known Member

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    So as all of the leaked information and what seems to be known now is the 5.2 gt350 has a flat plane crank like all the European supercar manufacturers -- ie ferrari, Lamborghini, etc -- so the engine revs to higher rpms and is a whole lot quicker than most 90° cranks like in our cars. So what am I getting at? Why are you still reading?
    Because I want to know if its been done and will work; I want to know if we can put a flat plane in our cars, 94-04, and our cars not blow up or seize to work. Anyone ever heard of this or has had a similar idea as I? I know we can upgrade our cams and what not to help our engines rev higher, but this idea is something that really interests me.
     
  2. D3VST8R96GT

    D3VST8R96GT Well-Known Member

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    Sure if you had enough money.

    You would need to change the firing order (cams and computer)

    Find a crank that fits

    aftermarket ecu..... and more
     
  3. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    I don't think it's that easy. Flat plane cranks are not as balanced as a crucified crank. They induce a fair amount of vibration. And this vibration only increases with component size/mass and rpm's.

    There is a reason most of the flat plane engines are small displacement, with short strokes and uber lightweight parts.

    Converting a pushrod motor is almost useless, given that overhead valves lack the control and response for 10k rpm operation (where you would see the best benefits of the flat plane crank).

    All of this is assuming that you can get this thing spinning without shaking itself apart.

    I don't know what Ford has done with the Voodoo motor, but it's about thr largest (displacement) flat plane engine I have heard of. Maybe they are running a balance shaft. Maybe extra lightweight conrods (like the LS7 titanium rods). Who knows?

    But getting a custom crank and cam are probably the easiest parts, getting everything else right is the hard part.
     
  4. ReplicaR

    ReplicaR Well-Known Member

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    Probably will be cheaper to just buy a GT350 lol.
     
  5. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    My sources are claiming the engines are failing at around 1yr/15,000miles.
     
  6. D3VST8R96GT

    D3VST8R96GT Well-Known Member

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    Easy is not in this conversation
     
  7. JKady

    JKady Active Member

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    Your sources are saying that the engine of a car that has not even been release for sale yet is failing at 1yr/15,000 miles?
     
  8. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Yes
     
  9. D3VST8R96GT

    D3VST8R96GT Well-Known Member

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    They tested versions of the coyote for almost 10 years and the eco boost about 5yrs (Iirc)
     
  10. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Failing does not necessarily mean total self destructing, but more along the guidelines of expected quality....after so many mile are put on the car through harsh conditions like USA northern arctic colds
     
  11. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    I wouldn't doubt that the voodoo engine requires much more frequent maintenance. For one, it's a Ford, so reliability isn't guaranteed. Secondly, the parts in motion are massive compared to most other flat plane crank motors. And even flat plane engines with tiny lightweight parts need frequent service and still shake themselves apart.

    I do not have very high expectations for the voodoo engine, to say the least. Yay, cool, something different than everyone else. Neat. I would rather see something just different than everything else Ford, and have a simple, reliable, and powerful motor.

    The Ford bashing is all in fun. But in all seriousness, the voodoo will probably come and go pretty quickly. Just like GM's dual overhead cam Corvette engine, the Lotus designed 32-valve LT-5. Neat. But the expensive kind of neat.
     
  12. D3VST8R96GT

    D3VST8R96GT Well-Known Member

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    Gm dual over head cam lasted a long time .... Northstar survived for awhile even seen people put them in turbo sand rails and crazy stuff
     
  13. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Honestly, im giddy about about the voodoo! Given enough development, Ford will nail it! And when they do, its on like donky cong! For example the deletion of the modular engine in the Engine Masters challenge. They for seen the dominating potential with the flat plane crank.
     
  14. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    Is this dominating potential based on... What? Or not trying to start a fight, but I would imagine a statement like that has some sort of fact based support... So let's hear it.

    I haven't read up on the voodoo engine, and I probably need to, but please tell me why a flat crank is going to suddenly make Ford so dominant?

    Even if flat plane crankshafts really are the wave of the future... What makes you think that Ford will get it right? They haven't gotten too much else right in the past. Not trying to Ford bash, but the last, most advanced pushrod motor Ford made is nothing to brag about. And it took them over a decade to produce a halfway decent overhead cam engine. Just saying I don't have high hopes for the voodoo motor.

    I hope Ford proves me wrong. I hope it's amazing. Reliable and powerful. It would be a first for Ford.
     
  15. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    Less rotational mass and 2 pistons firing but every 180° unlike crossplane were one piston fires every 90°. You could look at it as 2nasty 4cylinders mated together.
     
  16. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    Less rotational mass? No, Ford changed the layout of the voodoo crank, and this change added a vibration that normal flat plane crankshafts, like the Ferrari, do not have. So, tee voodoo crankshaft has a counterweight on each end. I guess we will have to wait and see if Ford's change to an otherwise proven design pays off.
     
  17. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    Do you think the voodoo block and/or rotating assembly will be able to exceed 500hp? That would be nice for a change. I really do want this motor to succeed. It would be awesome if Ford perfected a line of Americanized, long stroke, flat plane crankshafts engines. I would love for there to be motors worth swapping that weren't LS engines!

    If Ford succeeds with this, everyone wins. The bar raises for everyone. Competition is good for technology.
     
  18. 96blak54

    96blak54 Legend

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    The modular 5.4l in the last engine masters challenge dominated the competitors mostly because the rules favored the modular, but long story short, in order to gain power with a particular octane rating is to eliminate all possibilities of the fuel self igniting. The modular platform out performs any of the engines entered mostly due to a 3.5" cylinder bore. The others were 4"+ bores. Compression starts getting REAL with a tiny bore. The new master challenge rules includes the engine must have a 4" bore +.030"....or something along those lines, which totally eliminates a modular engine altogether. Add flatplane crank, direct injection to the said senario and jaws drop!! Direct injecting alone to a tumble head improves the ability for complete even stratification, where a 4v head falls short to what a 2v head does naturally. Most 4" bore 2v engines cant touch 15.1 pump gas enduring the elements within a car..... On a test stand under controlled conditions, most likely more, but a tiny bore....the efficiency abilities grow considerably.
     
  19. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    I fully understand the advantage of a small bore. I have a discussion on lat-g right now about this very thing. But we aren't talking about small bore efficiency.

    We are talking about flat plane crankshafts, in particular the most recent version of this that Ford has introduced.

    Everyone else who successfully uses a flat crank does so with a down, up, up, down configured crankshaft. This cures some harmonic vibration. And these engines routinely spin past 10k. With the size/weight/mass of the rotating assembly required for the voodoo motor, Ford can't expect a 10k red line... 8500 is impressive, though.

    Anyways, Ford already had a huge challenge to overcome trying to spin all that mass in a design that already has inherent vibration issues. And their solution is to change the design in a way that adds MORE vibration, by switching to a down, up , down, up crankshaft. And their solution to the added vibration (that their previous "solution" brought on), their solution to their solution, is to add MORE mass to the rotating assembly.

    Umm, why?

    Like I said, we will have to wait and see if Ford's change pays off in the long run.
     
  20. DavidBoren

    DavidBoren Active Member

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    All said and done, besides the kool kid points, what has been accomplished with the voodoo motor?

    We have OEM 7.0L pushrod engines with 7k redlines, NASCAR cam in block motors spin to 9k and stay there for 400 consecutive miles.

    That's the big advantage of overhead cams, right? Better valve control for higher redlines, right?

    The whole advantage of the flat plane crankshafts is its ability to rev quickly and achieve a high red line, right?

    And all this for 500hp? An LS3 does that 3000rpms sooner. With three less camshafts, and half the valves. Yes it has more cubes, but you can fix it with duct tape and a hammer.

    I am all for innovation and evolution. And I really do hope Ford does really well with this venture.

    I hope that the stock block and rotating assembly are good for 700hp. I hope Ford puts the positive displacement blower from the raptor on it. I really do want something new and cool on the market.

    I just am doubtful that this is it.