Who are the 4.6L 2V experts?

[Silver95bird]

Well good job proving the point that dynos can be made to say anything. Whats the correction factor and type of dyno that made that? lol

My point was that a stock 96-98 Gt makes 225hp.
A stock 99-04Gt makes 260hp.
PI cams were proven to be worth 12-15hp, and the intake is worth another 10-15hp.
That means PI castings alone are worth 5-10hp, stock for stock, at best.

This isn't controversial, Langton proved it fifteen years ago. Countless others have done the cam/intake swap with similar results.

I'll up the ante. $500 says a stock 99-04 GT that swaps NPI intake and cams dynos within 5hp and 1/4 miles within .2 of a stock 96-98 GT. Same everything else between the two cars.

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[white95]

Well good job proving the point that dynos can be made to say anything. Whats the correction factor and type of dyno that made that? lol

My point was that a stock 96-98 Gt makes 225hp.
A stock 99-04Gt makes 260hp.
PI cams were proven to be worth 12-15hp, and the intake is worth another 10-15hp.
That means PI castings alone are worth 5-10hp, stock for stock, at best.

This isn't controversial, Langton proved it fifteen years ago. Countless others have done the cam/intake swap with similar results.

I'll up the ante. $500 says a stock 99-04 GT that swaps NPI intake and cams dynos within 5hp and 1/4 miles within .2 of a stock 96-98 GT. Same everything else between the two cars.

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I found what you asked for now YOU find me quarter mile times:

PI intake + cam swap

Full PI swap

I’ll wait.

No, this isn’t controversial but you did bring it up and then “threw money down” on a wager that no one will ever care to take.

 

[Silver95bird]

I found what you asked for now YOU find me quarter mile times:

PI intake + cam swap

Full PI swap

I’ll wait.

No, this isn’t controversial but you did bring it up and then “threw money down” on a wager that no one will ever care to take.

Keep waiting.

If you really think a PI swap is a magic ticket to 300rwhp, I've got a bridge to sell you.

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[Silver95bird]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...1&share_fid=6455&share_type=t&link_source=app

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[white95]

I’m still waiting. Trap speed tells the truth. Let’s see some credibility to this ancient claim.

 

[Silver95bird]

Maybe you could read the 250+ post thread on the subject posted above while you wait.

If you wont read good tech posted here, then why are you here?

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[white95]

Maybe you could read the 250+ post thread on the subject posted above while you wait.

If you wont read good tech posted here, then why are you here?

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Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I’ve been all through that thread and I did the PI swap.

You’ve been here a few years and you suddenly can call someone else out for ignoring tech because they don’t agree with you?

 

[Silver95bird]

don't know about that, but im not the delusional one who thinks a PI swap is a magic potion to 300rwhp. stop posting nonsense. you're going to have very disappointed people following your advice, doing headswaps to be really disappointed that the results are nowhere near the hype. The compression bump and headswap is worth what, 10hp? At double the cost and a lot more work.

If i had a shortblock on a stand, and a set of either heads, sure, I'd pick the PIs. And not because I thought they were worth ricer magic HP. I'll take 10 hp if i can get it. But for a npi shortblock, in the car, the headswap is a bunch more work and hassle for little gains.

Read the thread i posted and stop posting bad tech.

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[white95]

What’s your name? I’m Josef. Let’s make this a bit more personal and less hostile, shall we?

A) I never said anyone would make 300 whp with a PI swap buy I did say that dyno numbers were subjective because I don’t agree with them.

B) I did disagree with only a 10 hp gain between the cams + intake vs the entire swap

C) I don’t understand why you’re suddenly saying I’m spreading bad tech. It’s a fallacy and you should reevaluate what’s happening in this thread. I am one of the more helpful administrators of this forum and I am even known to send out parts to people in a jam. You seem very knowledgeable and that’s good, we need that here.

You need to take it down a notch.

Josef

 

[Silver95bird]

Hi. I'm Tom.

Let's agree to step it down a notch. Cool. Done. I also know some people here off the boards. Its a nice place, and generally speaking its much preferable to stangnet or the corral.

I saw another post, but its not here now. I dont know, so I'll just forget about it.

i agree dyno numbers aren't everything, and theyre easy to fudge. but they can give a general idea of what is happening, relatively speaking.

A typical 99-04 GT sheet from what i can find dynos around 235 +/- 5hp. A typical headswap car is around 240 +/-5hp.
That video of 300rwhp i think its fairly safe to say is bogus. he had some other mods, but there are a lot of people with more mods running under 300.
A PI intake/cam swap car should dyno in just below a 99GT.

The heads and compression of a PI swap don't add much.

I'd be more thorough but I have the kids crawling all over me today. Tried to find more links, but link rot and that damn photobucket debacle are killing a lot of threads.



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[delling3]

I have a hard time believing that car in the dyno run video has no other performance mods. The PI engine was rated at 260 HP/302FT LBS, vs. 215/285 for a '96-97 NPI engine and that was at the crank, not at the wheel. Either the dyno is seriously inaccurate, or there were some other changes made.

From what I have read, the PI intake modification will yield a 10-15HP increase, and the cam will add another 10-15HP. If those numbers are correct, then I guess the heads contribute more like 15-20 HP. It would be interesting to know what the impact on the torque numbers are, and where in the RPM range the gains are.

There is a video on Youtube, featuring the intake-only swap on an NPI motor, complete with dyno runs before and after (same dyno, obviously the atmospheric conditions were not identical). The net gain from the intake was 12HP. The significant gains all came above 4000 RPM. The peak torque actually dropped a bit, but again showed significant gains above 4000 RPM to redline.

If I had the budget, I would probably be interested in those TF heads that OLD H2S has available. But then we are talking dropping the front k-member to install long-tubes and and an x-pipe (sure not gonna install performance heads with the OEM exhaust?) And "while you are at it, you might as well" . . .

 

[Silver95bird]

I get what youre saying, but 215 (225for 98) +15+15+25 =270 or (280). That's high IMO.

PI engines stock for stock did give up torque down low for more power at 4000+ where the npi intake stalls at. its a function of larger runners and the corresponding drop in flow velocity at low rpms.

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[Silver95bird]

Here's what i see.

1998 225hp

+15 intake
+15 cams
=255hp

1999-04 260hp

That leaves 5 hp, max 10hp if the cams and intake were only say +12 each.

+5 for compression of PI headswap

265hp.

So basically like a bullitt.

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[OLD H2S]

Drop a 3 valve in it for next to nothing.

 

[evilcw311]

You mod motor guys are cracking me up in here. [emoji38]



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[RAU03MACH]

You mod motor guys are cracking me up in here. [emoji38]



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It happens

 

[96blak54]

I say , Just roll with the arguments. Its creating traffic.

 

[DropTopPony]

It's like 2003 up in here with the PI vs NPI.

 

[PinkieT]

Following this thread closely now. I have 98 GT. Sitting the garage ready to go on are BBK shorties (have a ragtop, long tubes are not an option)/2.5" x-pipe/Flowmaster cat back exhaust, Ford Racing PI intake, and Accufab plenum and throttle body. All bought used for really good prices. I also scored a set of brand new Ford PI heads with cams on them for cheap. Car has under 70k miles so doesn't NEED to be torn down. I would love to find stock PI cams, but all I can find new are high performance aftermarket ones at $600 up. That's not much more than I paid for the heads! Here's the question - should I take the PI cams off the heads I got, do a cam swap (which I can do myself with help) instead of a full head swap and sell the heads, or is it worth the extra time and cost to install the heads? If my heads were bad it would be a no brainer, but I'm looking for power without breaking the band or my back.

 

[Silver95bird]

Following this thread closely now. I have 98 GT. Sitting the garage ready to go on are BBK shorties (have a ragtop, long tubes are not an option)/2.5" x-pipe/Flowmaster cat back exhaust, Ford Racing PI intake, and Accufab plenum and throttle body. All bought used for really good prices. I also scored a set of brand new Ford PI heads with cams on them for cheap. Car has under 70k miles so doesn't NEED to be torn down. I would love to find stock PI cams, but all I can find new are high performance aftermarket ones at $600 up. That's not much more than I paid for the heads! Here's the question - should I take the PI cams off the heads I got, do a cam swap (which I can do myself with help) instead of a full head swap and sell the heads, or is it worth the extra time and cost to install the heads? If my heads were bad it would be a no brainer, but I'm looking for power without breaking the band or my back.

$600 for a set of PI heads? were they ported? Local pick a part place near me sells heads for like $50 each, a little more if its OHC with cams included.
As for the best combination, honestly you could go either way. PI swap is great to have the added compression, and can take a wider range of cams. NPI heads coil bind around .540", so in stock form they need lower lift cams. The heads can be modified, but few people do so. Another thing I want to do someday.

Honestly, if i had PI heads and intake sitting there already, I'd want to use them.

The only fly in that ointment is if you're doing all this in the car, in less than ideal conditions.
I've done swaps like this, and if I did it, id pull the engine and put it on a stand. Call me lazy but its much easier.
The cam/intake swap is more of a low buck simple thing to do. The headswap is more involved. Yes it nets a few HP, but I don't know what youre used to or what kind of a shop youd do this in.

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edited because i am a bad proofreader lol