2V Motor Build/Explosion

trippieTim · May 12, 2023

SO its time to stop buying pullout junkyard 4.6's from wrecked lincoln town cars.
The backstory:
I picked up a 2008 4.6L 2v outa a Lincolns town car that some poor grandma put into a telephone pole or possibly a person. A crisp and clean 56k miles granny driven. I thought my reliability issues were solved. I slapped my stock GT intake manifold on, upgraded to 3" pacesetter long tubes, tossed it in mated to a stock T45 glass box with 145k miles, got a SCT bama tune for 93, and daily drove the car for about 2 months. Its developed a ticking/tap and I found some lovely forbidden silver sprinkles in my oil filter last week doing my standard 3k miles oil change. Im assuming it something with the valvetrain as its revving out higher than any town car ever would. Regardless. Valve covers will be coming off this weekend to see whats up with this one. Not many saw it but I have a thread on moddedmustangs for a engine build. Ive been putting money aside as a broke 21 year old with a dream to build something the ladies will love. I have a been through 3 engines now with this car. original motor 156k, i dropped a valve by money shifting it, 2nd one I shredded a rod bearing due to low oil because it burned oil and was sold a scam motor with 86k miles and toasted piston rings( honestly i had too many rev limiter donuts and took it to a drift event), and now we have the granny motor with 56k, that lasted me 2 months with regular driving and no abuse because i got tired of it breaking. WITH THAT being said so everyone has some backstory. I'm on my last rope of hope at the moment for this thing.
The plan A:
I have the bad rod bearing engine still. I have the crank from the original motor that dropped the valve (8 bolt due to it being a windsor).
Its time to stop spending $600 on junk yard motors and do it the right way.
The plan original plan was to use gen 2 Coyote/boss rods with stock bore forged pistons (retaining stock compression), use my old 8 bolt Windsor crank(still mint condition no scoring), and find a cobra oil pump, Fresh timing set, and send it.
I'm not sure what camshaft setup I plan on going with, I need to figure out what the best setup would be for the car. I plan on adding forced induction in the far future but don't wanna lose power/drivability while its still NA.
I'm definitely upgrading to comp cams beehive springs with upgraded retainers. May need adjustable cam gears but I don't know anything about timing components/Engines in general.

Plan B:
IF I decide to use coyote rods with this stock crank, Im ASSUMING (please let me know if this is true) Im going to need to have the rotating assembly balanced. My area in Florida does not have locally available machine shops or anyone that does this kind of work.
Plan on this one would be to find the cheapest but best reviewed rods i can find for around $800, forged pistons, cobra oil pump, Fresh timing set, and send it.

Stock Coyote rods are $480 for a set of 8, now that sounds like a better deal. I also work for ford and could get a Parts discount.I just dont know if they will hold up if i end up pushing it past 600 HP, into like the 800s. I want to only do this once.

The end goal is still to turbo the car and make 600HP reliably
Not sure what to do yet. Open to suggestions as to which rods to go with on a budget, and which cams for this kind of setup.

trippieTim · May 12, 2023

Looking at these if i do buy connecting rods, these would probably be it. MHS states theyre good for up to 1200.

K1 TECHNOLOGIES 011AN17593 K1 Technologies H-Beam Billet Connecting Rods | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - K1 Technologies H-Beam Billet Connecting Rods with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Connecting Rods at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

white95 · May 12, 2023

My buddy has K1 rods in his Coyote and they seem to work well.

@lwarrior1016 We didn’t have balance my 4V crank when he built it did we?

trippieTim · May 12, 2023

I wanna have it planned out as to what Im buying and purchase everything over the next coming months. Planning on like November having all the parts and starting assembly of the block. These K1 rods look like a steal at this price point. But with my ford discount i can probably get brand new gen 2 coyote rods for around $300 for a set of 8.....

lwarrior1016 · May 13, 2023

white95 said:
My buddy has K1 rods in his Coyote and they seem to work well.

@lwarrior1016 We didn’t have balance my 4V crank when he built it did we?

we should have balanced the crank to be sure, but it wasn’t absolutely necessary. I’ve run a bunch of them without balancing. They all get coyote rods. I’ve used K1 rods in some stroker ls builds and they hold up fine.

For you 2v build, I would suggest you get a billet 3v/gt500 oil pump from boundary pumps with a 15/16” pick up tube. Definitely balance the rotating assembly, especially if you’re getting the heavier rods. But once you put that heavy rotating assembly in there, don’t be surprised when it revs slower. Arp studs and good bearings.

Now for the magic question, why are you trying to keep the 2v instead of doing a coyote swap? My gen 1 coyote swap made 436rwhp and got 23 mpg. Took my car 11.60 in the 1/4. If you are resourceful it can be done cheaper than you think.

trippieTim · May 14, 2023

lwarrior1016 said:
we should have balanced the crank to be sure, but it wasn’t absolutely necessary. I’ve run a bunch of them without balancing. They all get coyote rods. I’ve used K1 rods in some stroker ls builds and they hold up fine.

For you 2v build, I would suggest you get a billet 3v/gt500 oil pump from boundary pumps with a 15/16” pick up tube. Definitely balance the rotating assembly, especially if you’re getting the heavier rods. But once you put that heavy rotating assembly in there, don’t be surprised when it revs slower. Arp studs and good bearings.

Now for the magic question, why are you trying to keep the 2v instead of doing a coyote swap? My gen 1 coyote swap made 436rwhp and got 23 mpg. Took my car 11.60 in the 1/4. If you are resourceful it can be done cheaper than you think.

Good to know thank you. I did see a few months back someone putting a 3v pump on one of these, I'll probably do something along those lines.
I pulled the oil filter to see how this engine looked today and I found no traces of metal. Im starting to think this engine may be ok. Pulling passenger valve cover later today just to double check. Regardless of the outcome i think im still going to rebuild the spare engine.
As far as a coyote swap goes, if i could find a running motor in the $1500 range than it would be totally possible. But the control pack alone is another $1500. Coyote swaps seem to rack up money quick. I could find way to cut some expenses. but with engine, control pack, and the fuel system, Thats easily $3500-$4000 for the swap.
Some people on facebook want 7500 just for a low mile coyote motor. Which is way past my budget for this thing.
I could start getting some parts for it slowly but the engine control pack and fuel system id have to lay some serious dough out for.

r3dn3ck · May 14, 2023

Going to be the voice of old age & experience with making big mistakes. You're young so you'll probably ignore the good advice but it's here for you anyway.

Cars don't impress women that are worth impressing, just women that belong to the streets. Poon is not a good reason to drop dollars on cars. It makes only a little bit less sense to polish the soles of your shoes.

Your history of irresponsibly murdering engines which you cannot afford to replace by subjecting them to abject abuse that you know will murder them suggests you need to mature a bit and cool your jets before hot rods are going to be anything but a way for you to shoot yourself in the financial foot.

You might consider the option that you cannot afford to be doing what you're doing at all. You're just making sure that you'll stay financially insecure by dumping money into a car that is not practical or economical for anything and which you habitually mistreat. Get yourself in order, get your house in order, get a slick ride, get the world in order. In that order.

Everyone says they want 600hp until they have it. If you've not lived day to day with a car making over 450hp, perhaps take a log off the desire fire. They're a PITA to live with. They drink gas, they break parts constantly, they're a beyotch to drive in any kind of inclement weather or even just anywhere near dewpoint conditions, and they like to try to murder you at the drop of a hat... any hat.

Redoubling your efforts after you've lost sight of your goals is not a good strategy. Your goals probably include not being poor as a church mouse your whole life... if so you're not acting in that interest.

trippieTim · May 14, 2023

r3dn3ck said:
Going to be the voice of old age & experience with making big mistakes. You're young so you'll probably ignore the good advice but it's here for you anyway.

Cars don't impress women that are worth impressing, just women that belong to the streets. Poon is not a good reason to drop dollars on cars. It makes only a little bit less sense to polish the soles of your shoes.

Your history of irresponsibly murdering engines which you cannot afford to replace by subjecting them to abject abuse that you know will murder them suggests you need to mature a bit and cool your jets before hot rods are going to be anything but a way for you to shoot yourself in the financial foot.

You might consider the option that you cannot afford to be doing what you're doing at all. You're just making sure that you'll stay financially insecure by dumping money into a car that is not practical or economical for anything and which you habitually mistreat. Get yourself in order, get your house in order, get a slick ride, get the world in order. In that order.

Everyone says they want 600hp until they have it. If you've not lived day to day with a car making over 450hp, perhaps take a log off the desire fire. They're a PITA to live with. They drink gas, they break parts constantly, they're a beyotch to drive in any kind of inclement weather or even just anywhere near dewpoint conditions, and they like to try to murder you at the drop of a hat... any hat.

Redoubling your efforts after you've lost sight of your goals is not a good strategy. Your goals probably include not being poor as a church mouse your whole life... if so you're not acting in that interest.

There was a lot of sarcasm in the original post. Im building this car because I love the platform and love the car community. Drifting is a hobby and a passion of mine, if you want to call that "history of irresponsibly murdering engines which you cannot afford to replace by subjecting them to abject abuse" then we simply are not into cars for the same reasons. Every car guy makes poor financial decisions by even choosing to put money into a car in the first place. You're acquiring a liability by signing the title. If you're not up for what it throws at you then cars are not for you. I've got multiple friends with reliable cars in the 500-600 HP range built in backyard sheds that are still tearing up the courses. 600HP is not a lot of power in todays world when you can finance a new car with that power with 100% reliability. I have faith in technology and my 2 hands to make something really special. Yeah im young its not your money so who cares how much or little I choose to spend. This place is a forum of support and encouragement. Please do not return negativity.

98snakehorse · May 15, 2023

Here you go... I've been down this road before.

Ultimate Budget 2v Motor

Alright everyone I know there are plenty of threads in relations to this post but I am wanting the most updated responses with the direction I am going in. This isnt something I plan on doing right away but its information I feel is important before I start throwing more power at my car. My...

www.sn95forums.com

white95 · May 15, 2023

98snakehorse said:
Here you go... I've been down this road before.

Ultimate Budget 2v Motor

Alright everyone I know there are plenty of threads in relations to this post but I am wanting the most updated responses with the direction I am going in. This isnt something I plan on doing right away but its information I feel is important before I start throwing more power at my car. My...

www.sn95forums.com

The good old days.

trippieTim · May 15, 2023

98snakehorse said:
Here you go... I've been down this road before.

Ultimate Budget 2v Motor

Alright everyone I know there are plenty of threads in relations to this post but I am wanting the most updated responses with the direction I am going in. This isnt something I plan on doing right away but its information I feel is important before I start throwing more power at my car. My...

www.sn95forums.com

First off, you're a legend for that build. I remember seeing it when I first got my car a few years back. I just spent a good bit of time reading through that entire thread. I will definitely be going through that often as points of reference. The fact that you listed the ring gaps is incredibly helpful. I will be using the same specs for that. I also would like to use similar components. You clearly met that goal of cheap and reliable at 600HP.

I have a lot of figuring out to do for a little bit here. Doing a lot of research because some parts back then are simply just unavailable nowadays.
I definitely will be doing a 4V cobra or a 3V GT oil pump.
Stock cams (For now)
Stock bore, depends on when i pull these heads if there's scoring. It did spin a bearing and I am not sure how these walls will look.
Coyote/Boss rods will more than likely be my choice, or These H beams if I wanna spend a little more money https://www.summitracing.com/parts/kot-011an17593
Pistons , Not sure yet but looking at these, https://www.modularmotorsportsracin...page=product_info&cPath=4_5_36&products_id=81
If anyone has a good Recommendations for rings to go with for 600HP and boost setup, plz let me know.
I have a stock 8 bolt Windsor crank, and a stock Romeo 6 bolt (Im 75% sure this one will be toast due to the rod bearing.)
For hardware. I plan on using OEM for everything besides the mains and rod caps, those will be ARP
Ford OEM timing set, upgraded tensioners.
-------------
That's all I've got in my head for parts at the moment, let me know if there's anything else I need to consider.
One big question in my head which may be a simple answer is, during reassembly, how do you know where to rotate the camshafts, and the crank positioning, in order to start putting things back together. I'm assuming the crank will be at the TDC mark then you begin installing rods and pistons? Then for the cams, do you just slap them on and rotate them when it comes to put the timing chains on? Never built an engine before and i'll 1000% have a Hanes manual open when doing this but just kinda those questions im curious about. Thanks guys.

98snakehorse · May 17, 2023

Was a really fun learning expierence for me. And its good to know you can still backyard build these things and they turn out reliable. I did not balance any of my components and it all turned out fine but that can change depending on your rods and pistons. Im guessing the Mahle pistons and boss rods were similar weight as the factory NPI stuff.

Just a word of warning. With the cost of building the engine and eventually going forced induction you can probably get yourself started on a pretty healthy bolton/coyote swap. That was the route I was taking next before I sold my Sn.

trippieTim · May 18, 2023

98snakehorse said:
Was a really fun learning experience for me. And its good to know you can still backyard build these things and they turn out reliable. I did not balance any of my components and it all turned out fine but that can change depending on your rods and pistons. Im guessing the Mahle pistons and boss rods were similar weight as the factory NPI stuff.

Just a word of warning. With the cost of building the engine and eventually going forced induction you can probably get yourself started on a pretty healthy bolton/coyote swap. That was the route I was taking next before I sold my Sn.

Honestly been something I've been contemplating over the last few days. Im just worried about buying an expensive coyote motor and it being a brick. I guess id be building a coyote instead of a 4.6 then lol. IF someone knows anywhere in florida that reliably sells these things for around 2-3K. Id honestly be down to toss it in storage for a few months and order the parts. My stock T45 will cry its way to heaven knowing it held out this long. Luckily i have a spare one with 100k miles to replace it if it does go.
So really I could do either one. The T45 should bolt right up no issues, coyote control pack, a K member, headers, and the accessory drive pack from PBH and i could be rolling. The more research i do the more tempting it is.
Alot of thinking still, since i already have the spare 4.6 motor on a stand ready to get torn down. This would kinda be like welp do i slap this other 4.6 in my daily driver F150? That'd need a whole thread for its self.
I'll have a plan here soon. Just need to figure out whats more cool to me and would be fun to drive/ something id love. I think a coyote would make alot more sense for reliable horsepower. But a turbo built motor makes all the cool noises ive been dying to hear. Idk. More thinking to come.

Musturd · May 19, 2023

I would just do a gen 1 coyote. They can be had for little money . Gen1 f150 engines are fine they have the same firing order as the mustang variants . Can just swap the intake manifold and front cover for mustang stuff and be on your way . I’m not going to bother swapping the cams on my f150 coyote just going to send it . With out a doubt will make way more power easily then a n/a 4v

white95 · May 19, 2023

Musturd said:
I would just do a gen 1 coyote. They can be had for little money . Gen1 f150 engines are fine they have the same firing order as the mustang variants . Can just swap the intake manifold and front cover for mustang stuff and be on your way . I’m not going to bother swapping the cams on my f150 coyote just going to send it . With out a doubt will make way more power easily then a n/a 4v

Idk man! Proven gains by switching to mustang cams! You’re leaving a good bit of power on the table and would probably be in the 11’s for sure.

Musturd · May 19, 2023

white95 said:
Idk man! Proven gains by switching to mustang cams! You’re leaving a good bit of power on the table and would probably be in the 11’s for sure.

It’s like 20 hp hardly worth my time when I’m going to boost it .

white95 · May 19, 2023

20 hp NA could mean 40+ boosted

Js

d.garza18 · May 27, 2023

trippieTim said:
SO its time to stop buying pullout junkyard 4.6's from wrecked lincoln town cars.
The backstory:
I picked up a 2008 4.6L 2v outa a Lincolns town car that some poor grandma put into a telephone pole or possibly a person. A crisp and clean 56k miles granny driven. I thought my reliability issues were solved. I slapped my stock GT intake manifold on, upgraded to 3" pacesetter long tubes, tossed it in mated to a stock T45 glass box with 145k miles, got a SCT bama tune for 93, and daily drove the car for about 2 months. Its developed a ticking/tap and I found some lovely forbidden silver sprinkles in my oil filter last week doing my standard 3k miles oil change. Im assuming it something with the valvetrain as its revving out higher than any town car ever would. Regardless. Valve covers will be coming off this weekend to see whats up with this one. Not many saw it but I have a thread on moddedmustangs for a engine build. Ive been putting money aside as a broke 21 year old with a dream to build something the ladies will love. I have a been through 3 engines now with this car. original motor 156k, i dropped a valve by money shifting it, 2nd one I shredded a rod bearing due to low oil because it burned oil and was sold a scam motor with 86k miles and toasted piston rings( honestly i had too many rev limiter donuts and took it to a drift event), and now we have the granny motor with 56k, that lasted me 2 months with regular driving and no abuse because i got tired of it breaking. WITH THAT being said so everyone has some backstory. I'm on my last rope of hope at the moment for this thing.
The plan A:
I have the bad rod bearing engine still. I have the crank from the original motor that dropped the valve (8 bolt due to it being a windsor).
Its time to stop spending $600 on junk yard motors and do it the right way.
The plan original plan was to use gen 2 Coyote/boss rods with stock bore forged pistons (retaining stock compression), use my old 8 bolt Windsor crank(still mint condition no scoring), and find a cobra oil pump, Fresh timing set, and send it.
I'm not sure what camshaft setup I plan on going with, I need to figure out what the best setup would be for the car. I plan on adding forced induction in the far future but don't wanna lose power/drivability while its still NA.
I'm definitely upgrading to comp cams beehive springs with upgraded retainers. May need adjustable cam gears but I don't know anything about timing components/Engines in general.

Plan B:
IF I decide to use coyote rods with this stock crank, Im ASSUMING (please let me know if this is true) Im going to need to have the rotating assembly balanced. My area in Florida does not have locally available machine shops or anyone that does this kind of work.
Plan on this one would be to find the cheapest but best reviewed rods i can find for around $800, forged pistons, cobra oil pump, Fresh timing set, and send it.

Stock Coyote rods are $480 for a set of 8, now that sounds like a better deal. I also work for ford and could get a Parts discount.I just dont know if they will hold up if i end up pushing it past 600 HP, into like the 800s. I want to only do this once.

The end goal is still to turbo the car and make 600HP reliably
Not sure what to do yet. Open to suggestions as to which rods to go with on a budget, and which cams for this kind of setup.

Coyote rods are $2-300 if I remember correctly, for cams theirs tons of options. Itodd warren can spec you out some cams specifically for what you’re trying to do, given there is a waiting time because of the demand. Boss rods, forged pistons, and a stock crank will hold 600+ just fine. You can find deals if you look in the right places. I built my motor less than $1000. Bought a rebuilt engine off of fb from a guy who fell on hard times. But the cam journals were screwed so I had to get a pair from a town car at pull apart. $130 and the engine I yanked them off of looked fresh too. Had 96blak grind some 5.4 cams for me, originally was going to go 5.4 flat top pistons but a tune wasn’t in my budget atm. So stayed stock. Gaskets etc I went cheap with.