Composites and such

[Frank.JD.Perez]

For those with the talent and utterly gifted what do you guys normally do/recommend for making parts? And what I mean by that is custom fabrication and moulds. I've seen a lot of what you guys have done in regards to splitters and diffusers, but I wanna know a bit more specifically spoilers and wings.

Since I'm gonna be getter the t1 spoiler in favor of my CF s281 I want to either make a mould of it or wrap it in 2x2 twill CF. Either way I'm gonna have a CF t1 but I'm trying to find the best way to go about it. I've thought of making a 2 piece mould (which may be the way I decide) out of clay or fiberglass or trying to make an entire one piece mould out of clay. I've talked to a sales rep from the company I will be getting the spoiler from if I could put in a special order for a CF piece and while they haven't said no it's not possible it seems more like yea it's possible but I don't really wanna do it. Either way I expect this project to run around 8/9 hundred and that's including the spoiler which is about half. The rest is CF and materials either by myself or paying 8 9 hundred for it CF from the company.

But again while I'm being more specific about a spoiler I'm not taking away from the more broad statement of what do you guys normally use?

 

[Austinx56]

this is a great video. very instructive, a bit long, but this should help, great guys, been following them for years....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09m0B8RRiEE

 

[Austinx56]

if you watch that video all the way through, you will learn some things

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

Lol. I tried to watch that movie once. I couldn't do it

 

[Austinx56]

Lol. I tried to watch that movie once. I couldn't do it

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

Hey, he hasn't been my governor for years now, I don't have to adhere to him anymore Austin

 

[DropTopPony]

The Arnold has spoken.

 

[Austinx56]

Hey, he hasn't been my governor for years now, I don't have to adhere to him anymore Austin

.......but its Arnold, and you do what the governator says! he is lord of the gym!

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

In a work out sense I may listen. But doesn't mean I'll take his advice lol.

COME ON PEOPLE I'M TALKING ABOUT COMPOSITES AND FABRIMACATIONZ

 

[Austinx56]

sorry ive hijacked this post

 

[ttocs]

are you asking for brands?

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

are you asking for brands?

no like what methods do you use (silicone, clay, fiberglass, etc) or your recommendations

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

sorry ive hijacked this post

its ok, i still love you

 

[ttocs]

ah ok. I personally have never done an mold making but considered it and looked into it. I have done a lot of fiberglassing and now some carbon fiber work and all I can say is you do not wan to move onto CF until your comfortable with fiberglassing. Its the same but different all at the same time.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

so im guessing make a fiberglass or clay mold first, then try to make a copy out of the mold with fiberglass first and then try the uber sex cf making?

 

[ttocs]

how much fiberglass work have you done? I have done more then most and honestly the mold process was enough to make me reconsider it. The other part is that if you seriously want to make all CF parts you need to look into resin infusion to be sure that everything is properly saturated and all the layers have NO bubbles in it especially for something aero like a big spoiler. By the time you get the pump parts, resin pot, seals, plastics I really didn't see how to do it for less then 800-1000. Skinning is easier but still a big mess that then requires more time to finish it properly then with infusion. You will need to be good at wet sanding and polishing to get a smooth/clean top to see the CF below it.

 

[Thomas_W]

With composite parts, the quality of the part is 40% the quality of the plug, 50% the quality of the mold and 10% the quality of the layup. So dont even think about using a clay mold. You HAVE to have a solid surface, especially for bare carbon fiber parts!

The process is really dependent on the part complexity, but assuming a medium difficulty part, this is essentially the process:

1.Take your plug and paint, clear, wetsand and polish until its 100% perfect for what you want (i have spent over 200 hours alone on body work of a plug PRIOR to color, clear and wetsand/polish)

2. wax the plug three times with a mold release wax (dont waste your time trying to save money with car wax

3. Make up your parting planes to split the part up into moldable segments, then install locating dots. You can have Zero negative draft and ensure the part is able to be seamed together as well (this is the hard part) the plug and parting planes need to be supported to prevent movement

4. Fill in any gaps between the parting planes and the plug with non hardening modeling clay, then wax the parting planes twice and the planes and plug entirely one time. Polish with a soft cloth

5. Spray a PVA release film over the mold and parting planes segment you wish to mold and allow to cure.

6. Paint a layer of an Epoxy Surfacing resin onto the mold area you have alread sprayed with PVA, allow to "tack" to fingerprint status (IE, you leave a print in the resin, but the resin doesnt transfer to your finger).

7. Repeat step 6

8. Mix up some epoxy laminating resin and cotton flock till its thick (but a wet mixture) and use this to smooth over the locating dots.

9. apply some light weight (1-2oz/yd) glass cloth strips onto the parting planes only ensuring one edge is in the cornee of the parting plane and part interface joint

10. Repest step 9, but put the strips onto the plug instead.

11. Repeat step 8, but make a radius in the corner of the plug/parting plane interface joint.

12. Cover the entire mold surface area with the same light weight cloth as used in step 9.

13. Repeat step 12, three more times

14. Repeat step 12 and 13 using a 6oz/yd cloth

15. Repeat step 14 using a 18oz/yd cloth

16. Repeat step 12

17. Allow to cure 24 hours

18. Repeat all steps 4-17 for all mold segmens.

19. Once the entire mold is done, drill bolt holts around the mold flanges to use to "clamp" the flanges for when you go to join the part later.



and small production run quality mold that is your first mold will be good for 5-20 parts and for something the size of a rear spoiler will cost $600-1500 depending on how good of a deal you get on the materials.

If you want me to continue, i can.

 

[Thomas_W]

This was a medium complexity mold at 6 different mold segments:




This was a simpler, 8 segment mold. The part was made using vacuum infusion and produced 100% defect free parts. Each part had $800 worth of consumable materials.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

With composite parts, the quality of the part is 40% the quality of the plug, 50% the quality of the mold and 10% the quality of the layup. So dont even think about using a clay mold. You HAVE to have a solid surface, especially for bare carbon fiber parts!

The process is really dependent on the part complexity, but assuming a medium difficulty part, this is essentially the process:

1.Take your plug and paint, clear, wetsand and polish until its 100% perfect for what you want (i have spent over 200 hours alone on body work of a plug PRIOR to color, clear and wetsand/polish)

2. wax the plug three times with a mold release wax (dont waste your time trying to save money with car wax

3. Make up your parting planes to split the part up into moldable segments, then install locating dots. You can have Zero negative draft and ensure the part is able to be seamed together as well (this is the hard part) the plug and parting planes need to be supported to prevent movement

4. Fill in any gaps between the parting planes and the plug with non hardening modeling clay, then wax the parting planes twice and the planes and plug entirely one time. Polish with a soft cloth

5. Spray a PVA release film over the mold and parting planes segment you wish to mold and allow to cure.

6. Paint a layer of an Epoxy Surfacing resin onto the mold area you have alread sprayed with PVA, allow to "tack" to fingerprint status (IE, you leave a print in the resin, but the resin doesnt transfer to your finger).

7. Repeat step 6

8. Mix up some epoxy laminating resin and cotton flock till its thick (but a wet mixture) and use this to smooth over the locating dots.

9. apply some light weight (1-2oz/yd) glass cloth strips onto the parting planes only ensuring one edge is in the cornee of the parting plane and part interface joint

10. Repest step 9, but put the strips onto the plug instead.

11. Repeat step 8, but make a radius in the corner of the plug/parting plane interface joint.

12. Cover the entire mold surface area with the same light weight cloth as used in step 9.

13. Repeat step 12, three more times

14. Repeat step 12 and 13 using a 6oz/yd cloth

15. Repeat step 14 using a 18oz/yd cloth

16. Repeat step 12

17. Allow to cure 24 hours

18. Repeat all steps 4-17 for all mold segmens.

19. Once the entire mold is done, drill bolt holts around the mold flanges to use to "clamp" the flanges for when you go to join the part later.



and small production run quality mold that is your first mold will be good for 5-20 parts and for something the size of a rear spoiler will cost $600-1500 depending on how good of a deal you get on the materials.

If you want me to continue, i can.

the continues are of wants!

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

how much fiberglass work have you done? I have done more then most and honestly the mold process was enough to make me reconsider it. The other part is that if you seriously want to make all CF parts you need to look into resin infusion to be sure that everything is properly saturated and all the layers have NO bubbles in it especially for something aero like a big spoiler. By the time you get the pump parts, resin pot, seals, plastics I really didn't see how to do it for less then 800-1000. Skinning is easier but still a big mess that then requires more time to finish it properly then with infusion. You will need to be good at wet sanding and polishing to get a smooth/clean top to see the CF below it.

lol, none but here is my starting point so rather learn now and get good at it and then i can mold all the parts! yay!