Ive got a 94 GT 5-speed with 115k miles. I was wondering what I should go with. I was thinking maybe the trickflow H/C/I kit. How much horsepower do those guys make on a stop bottom end? I was thinking maybe going AFR 185's with BBK SSI intake, Comp Cams cam and Crane 1.6 ratio roller rockers. What do you guys think would be better for the stock bottom end? And how much more power would the AFR set up make over the TFS setup, the only reason im leaning towards the TFS setup is because it gets rid of all the guess work. So what do you guys think?
Kit
- Thread starter Flar
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When i go, i'm goin AFR. They are a great head IMO. But your right though, just getting the kit would take out a lot of the guess work. I would say you would definitely be well over 300 either way you went especially with a good tune. I dont there would be to great a difference.
Well when you look at the power differences the afr setup will net about 310-320 rwhp and i know for a fact that the trickflow kit will only get you about 280-290 rwhp. I know because my friend has that kit on his fox and he just dynoed it.
I was also thinking maybe spending that same money on possibly buying a Scat forged 347 bottom end kit and then porting the stock heads and adding roller rockers and stiffer springs for the bigger cam, and a BBK SSI manifold (I love the way the manifold looks, plus you dont see many of them) with a larger cam. Which do you guys think would be better? Because at 115K im afraid that im gona break something with that bottom end. Or I could just got buy a Vortech or 200 shot of NOS and blow my engine to hell but have fun for maybe 10k miles :thumb:
Schiffy
Well-Known Member
You don't see many of the SSI manifolds because they suck monkey dick... LOL... sorry to burst your bubble, BUT, as far as everything else... like i told my buddy, kits aren't always the way to go. he went with a kit from proffesional products for his 2V, and didn't even make 20HP more than stock... got mad and sold the car.
Sometimes piecing the car together is better, yeah, there's "guess work" but you'll end up better off... I'd shoot for some AFR 185's, an Edelbrock RPM intake, Look into the new Comp Thumper cams, they've seen good numbers on a decent setup. as far as pistons and rods and crank.. what are you planning? i would recommend if you're going to do ANY H/C/I, if you're going to have it ripped apart that much, you might as well rebuild the whole thing, bottom up.
Sometimes piecing the car together is better, yeah, there's "guess work" but you'll end up better off... I'd shoot for some AFR 185's, an Edelbrock RPM intake, Look into the new Comp Thumper cams, they've seen good numbers on a decent setup. as far as pistons and rods and crank.. what are you planning? i would recommend if you're going to do ANY H/C/I, if you're going to have it ripped apart that much, you might as well rebuild the whole thing, bottom up.
i second that the BBK intake sucks, i only know of one car thats around were im at that has the trickflow kit and he made around 280 rwhp, and in the new summit catalog they took a 95 gt and put the trickflow kit on it and made 275 rwhp, my car made 275 rwhp and about 25 more rwtq than summits 95 gt and i have the stock cam and gt40x heads, people that ive seen with afr 165/185 heads, a good cam and intake made anywhere around 275-300 or more to the tires depending on all the other supporting mods
Schiffy
Well-Known Member
stang94X said:
Longtubes are a good investment, as would be a decent cold air intake, larger MAF and TB and bigger injectors... I'd jump to some 24#ers just to be on the up side.... after you get the heads intake and cam, take it to have it tuned... I would think with what i said in my first post and this one, with a decent tune(mainly for the cam) you'll make 300 to the wheels. don't hold me to that though... cars are fidgety. look at mine. a beast in 1st-3rd about halfway through 3rd she falls flat on her face... :slap:
Stangbangin
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I would piece one together... Sure its takes the guesswork out but also leaves a bunch of hp on the table.. I bought the trick flow kit at one time and it made only 5 hp over my gt40/typhoon intake/comp cams combo. And cost 1200 more. Do your homework look at other peoples combos, ask around, look at dyno sheets it'll be worth it.
Most guys that I see with trickflow set ups seem to fall just short of 300hp. Its still better than stock and no guesswork like you said. But there seem to be a lot more guys running AFR combos that make on average a little more than 300. Its up to you. You dont have to buy everything from a company.
My heads are brand new. I bought them with rockers and saved about 300$ just because I didnt buy them from a company. Intake Manifolds I have zero problems buying used because unless there is a broken ear (which can be fixed fairly cheap) or stripped out thread(again fixable) then there is no wear issues like there would be with heads. So with a little tlc on a used intake setup you can save $100, even $200. Cam is a little different. If you want the best, you can do custom for about 300$. If you are comfortable going used you can find cams for 70$. If anything you can find a decent cam like the steeda 19 and tfs1 for under 200$
Put it this way, I bought my AFR 165s with rr, slightly ported performer and will be doing a custom cam and not break 2 grand. Best of all, the intake is only gonna be 25$ shipping after I sell my 93 cobra intake.....
If you look around long enough you can find good deals and can get an afr set up for same or even less than the trickflow set. Good luck.
My heads are brand new. I bought them with rockers and saved about 300$ just because I didnt buy them from a company. Intake Manifolds I have zero problems buying used because unless there is a broken ear (which can be fixed fairly cheap) or stripped out thread(again fixable) then there is no wear issues like there would be with heads. So with a little tlc on a used intake setup you can save $100, even $200. Cam is a little different. If you want the best, you can do custom for about 300$. If you are comfortable going used you can find cams for 70$. If anything you can find a decent cam like the steeda 19 and tfs1 for under 200$
Put it this way, I bought my AFR 165s with rr, slightly ported performer and will be doing a custom cam and not break 2 grand. Best of all, the intake is only gonna be 25$ shipping after I sell my 93 cobra intake.....
If you look around long enough you can find good deals and can get an afr set up for same or even less than the trickflow set. Good luck.
2slo95fiveoh
Well-Known Member
i have the trick flow top end kit on my car (stage one "street heat") with mods in sig and made 300 rwhp and
315 ft lbs. with a possible failing head gasket. although AFRs are some badass heads. if you can afford it i would
go with some AFR 185s, edelbrock/trickflow/ something intake manifold, and look into getting a custom ground
cam made. should be 300+ hp
315 ft lbs. with a possible failing head gasket. although AFRs are some badass heads. if you can afford it i would
go with some AFR 185s, edelbrock/trickflow/ something intake manifold, and look into getting a custom ground
cam made. should be 300+ hp
Just out of curiosity, how much is the AFR kit and if I was to go with that kit would it be sufficient for a supercharger with around 10 psi? Again, this is just out of curiosity. I'm not planning on doing anything to my car till something goes wrong with it and I have to tear it apart anyways.
slowfivoh said:
There is no AFR kit that im aware of. They dont make intake manifold for us or cams like trickflow does. I wish they did, im sure it would be bad ass :dancing6:. The heads themselves complete minus rockers are about 1200-1400 depending on who and discounts. But like I said you can find deals. I bought mine brand new with roller rockers that are $255 brand new for less than the heads by themselves are.
There are quite a few guys running afr 165 on 10-14 psi making some pretty big numbers. The 185 flow more, but the 165 can hold their own also. One I remember was 165s with i think it was 14psi making 500hp. He was Mustang of the Month it was the first yellow one.
Alright, well you guys convinced me. Im not going to go with the TFS kit. But what do you think? AFR 165's or AFR 185's? I have heared the the 165's are a direct drop in while the 185's might have some clearence issues, are there any ground to this? And if its true exactly what are the clearence 'issues'? Also, how much better are the 185's then the 165's?
If you do the 185's you WILL have to notch the pistons.
The best combo I have found that produces the most power, NOT by experience but by reading on Corral, Mustangworld etc.
AFR 165's (58cc), Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Flowtech Inductions (FTI) Custom Cam.
Jay Allen from Camshaft Innovations can make you a cam also if your not happy with FTI. :thumb:
The 185's are better just because of the fact that they flow better BUT for a small block 302/306 the 165's are perfect.
I would do the 165's over the 185's on a stock 302 - no question.
The best combo I have found that produces the most power, NOT by experience but by reading on Corral, Mustangworld etc.
AFR 165's (58cc), Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, Flowtech Inductions (FTI) Custom Cam.
Jay Allen from Camshaft Innovations can make you a cam also if your not happy with FTI. :thumb:
The 185's are better just because of the fact that they flow better BUT for a small block 302/306 the 165's are perfect.
I would do the 165's over the 185's on a stock 302 - no question.
Schiffy
Well-Known Member
I think you should worry more about pistons and rods if you plan to push 10-12psi through your Engine... heads will flow yeah, but you better make sure the guts will hold that boost before you worry about the heads flowing.
LAFENATU said:
Is this just because you have to notch the pistons with the 185's? If not, why is the 165 better than a 185 on a 302? If you ask me, the 165 head has been proven to work, especially on Paul(killercanary's) car, but it leaves no room to grow. A bigger head, when paired up with a custom cam, will allow room to grow and allow the cam grinder to be more "free" when he designs his cam.
For the OP, the whole big head small cid has been discussed to a large extend on www.sbftech.com. I can't preach enough how bad ass this site is when it come to correct information from experienced people.
Custom cam is the best way to go.
Custom cam is the best way to go.
Heres what I was planning. Once I put the cash togethor (tax refund and selling my other car). I was thinking of buying another 5.0 block off of craigslist then building it up so I can still use the car (its a daily drivier). I was thinking Scat 347 forged rotating assembly, AFR heads (165's or 185's?), undecided on cam, 1.6 ratio aluminum roller rockers, trick flow track heat manifold, FRPP 70mm TB, BBK CAI, BBK Equal length ceramic coated shorties, UPR catted x-pipe, SLP LM catback (exhaust system is because I live in california so emmisions is really strict)
If your gonna build up a 347 you should just go ahead and have the pistons notched and get the 185s. That would be a killer combo.
Where at in California are you? You can get away with off road pipes as long as you keep your stock one :coolsmiley:
Where at in California are you? You can get away with off road pipes as long as you keep your stock one :coolsmiley:
Schiffy
Well-Known Member
The only "Kit" i would go with, is the internals from DSS... I like their stuff. I'm planning on doing the same thing as you. buy a block off craigslist or ebay, build it up. but i wanna try out the Patriot heads. they're affordable, and i figure i might as well give um a shot. I've got a 390 in the shop as well, so i can't be spending a lot of cash, as i've got to build a new 302 AND my 390.
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