My car committed suicide (Plug ejected from head)

[Orange 94]

So you're pissed at someone for selling you a car in this condition? So you're going to turn around and sell it basically the same way with a better patch job?


Sorry, I don't understand how you can properly fix it without getting new heads? The threads are blown, how do you fix that without getting new heads? Wouldn't everything short of getting new heads just be a shitty patch job that will eventually do the same thing?

 

[Cpotts13]

You can literally get used pi engines complete of Craigslist for $200, just pull the heads and use those!

 

[chris91]

So you're pissed at someone for selling you a car in this condition? So you're going to turn around and sell it basically the same way with a better patch job?


Sorry, I don't understand how you can properly fix it without getting new heads? The threads are blown, how do you fix that without getting new heads? Wouldn't everything short of getting new heads just be a shitty patch job that will eventually do the same thing?

Properly done those fixes last for a VERY long time. What do you think the dealerships do to em? And believe me, if they didnt think it was a good idea theyd throw new heads on a car with a quickness because that means more money for them!!

 

[Orange 94]

They can last a long time? Okay, I've never had to deal with that. Just seems to me if the threads are gone you're kinda screwed.

Whether they work or not, its still a patch. I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't informed about it upon purchase.

 

[chris91]

Its not a patch. Go read up on em...

 

[Orange 94]

Correct me if Im wrong, you tap the head to make it bigger then use a little spacer that threads onto the spark plug and then fits into the head?

It doesnt matter to me if it works or not (I didn't seem to work the first time), but that doesn't seem like a proper fix to me. I'd at least like to know about something like that if I bought it.

 

[DeepList]

Yeah... I have to agree. It really seems like a patch or band-aid solution. I would be pissed if I purchased a car and later found out the previous owner did this and didn't disclose it to me. Replacing the heads would be the proper way of repairing this.

 

[chris91]

Ford, Toyota, and GM does this DAILY on $60K+ vehicles so Id think its safe to say its okay to use on a $4k car. If replacing the heads was the "proper" way of fixing this, dont you think a company that makes money on selling and installing parts would do it? I mean really...

You obviously havent read about timeserts. You must be reading about helicoil's or the timesert copies. The MAIN problem is you get some Joe Smoe that hasnt dont jack shit and thinks he knows it all and f**ks this up. And this guy used a inferior kit compared to the Timesert kit. That Napa kit is shit compared to the Timesert kit. You follow the directions and get the insert in there straight and youll NEVER have a problem with it. You tap the head and have new threads. Then you thread the timesert in and throw your plug in. It WILL not blow out if its done correctly. There are plenty of cases of people running boosted engines and never having a problem. Hell there are racecars running every damn weekend on timeserts not having a problem. What do you think a machine shop will do if you take the head off and take it to them?

 

[Orange 94]

all I'm saying is the guy was upset that someone sold a car like that to him, shouldn't do it to someone else.

 

[ttocs]

replace the heads, get something better while you are at it.

 

[FrankenStang]

its a patch...can be forever if the car is never beaten on but its a mustang so we all know what happens to them...I personally know someone with one in a dohc which is aluminum and its lasted about 3 years now but ive read where they have popped them selves out..I think though its all on how well you do the repair job,im willing to bet if you take ur time and do it well it will fix it.But if you sell it atleast balls up and inform the new buyer of it.I hate people who pass off polished turds,my self looked at 5 stangs to buy befor I said **** it.

 

[DeepList]

Ford, Toyota, and GM does this DAILY on $60K+ vehicles so Id think its safe to say its okay to use on a $4k car. If replacing the heads was the "proper" way of fixing this, dont you think a company that makes money on selling and installing parts would do it? I mean really...

The average customer isn't going to give a shit. All they hear is it's going to cost X amount of dollars to replace the heads, or we can do it THIS way for a fraction of the cost and you're not going to know the difference.... they'll choose the cheaper route.

You obviously havent read about timeserts. You must be reading about helicoil's or the timesert copies. The MAIN problem is you get some Joe Smoe that hasnt dont jack shit and thinks he knows it all and f**ks this up. And this guy used a inferior kit compared to the Timesert kit. That Napa kit is shit compared to the Timesert kit. You follow the directions and get the insert in there straight and youll NEVER have a problem with it. You tap the head and have new threads. Then you thread the timesert in and throw your plug in. It WILL not blow out if its done correctly. There are plenty of cases of people running boosted engines and never having a problem. Hell there are racecars running every damn weekend on timeserts not having a problem. What do you think a machine shop will do if you take the head off and take it to them?

I personally wouldn't use these "fixes" because they seem like way too much of a half-assed way of fixing it. I wouldn't take them to a machine shop either, but rather use it as an opportunity to get newer/better heads.

 

[Goldmember]

chris91, thank you for carrying the torch and actually knowing what you're talking about.

Otherwise, the amount of misinformation here is incredible. But I'll deal with that at the end of this thread.

The time-sert is steel-alloy that is permanently bonded to the head. The tool that inserts the sert flares the end out so that it is locked inside the head. Helicoils live on a weak insert and some Loctite, and they often fail, which causes most to go Timesert. Chances are some of you have heard of the helicoil and just assumed any kind of repair must be crap. Not that I blame you, but do more research. Ford dealers do Timeserts all the time, in fact that's what will be doing mine for a pretty damn reasonable price (less than the tool costs me separately).

The truck guys have been using them for years, no problem, no failure unless the procedure is somehow botched. Seeing as many of the tools are self-centering, in the right hands, that shouldn't be an issue. Same for the Panther guys. The sert is stronger than the rest of the head and it is a Ford-approved repair that lasts the life of the vehicle. I bought my GT from a dealer that may or may not have known a half-ass repair was done. I will have no issues after the repair is performed and neither will the next owner. It's bulletproof.

Some of us don't have 100-point show queens that never see bad weather. Some of us are on tight budgets and need the damn thing back up and running because we daily drive the cars. Bumming rides sucks. So $150 for a fix that's stronger than the original threads with minimal downtime, or $500 at a minimum for new heads and rebuilding 3/4 of the engine to do it? Never mind the labor? Must be nice to have those money and resources. And a second car like most of you seem to have. Get a clue. God Damn I can't wait to leave the Mustang scene, and the ignorance held by many. Unless it's top of the line replacement parts, you don't want to know about it. I know... don't let the door hit me in the ass on the way out. I won't. And the crap about beating the shit out of these cars. Some of you? Sure. Those of us who need to count on the car daily? No. Rarely do I pass 4000 RPM. Know when the plug took a shit? A split second after I started the engine.

Learn the truth about these procedures before you spout off lies.

I apologize to chris91, 945.0 and the others who were truly helpful in this thread. You guys are awesome, carry the Stang Flag proudly because you are assets to it. I'm giving up on it and the stigma attached.

I request that the thread be locked by a moderator ASAP before more misinformation is shared. I am supporting future noobs by making sure they find the right info when they search for the same problem. "Supporting Member" get it?

TIMESERTS ARE PERFECTLY OK!

Learn something:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2opNGDKGdkQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[DeepList]

A lot of what was said in here was nothing more than a matter of opinion. It seems like a half-assed approach at fixing an issue to me. If I had this happen on my car, I would replace the heads rather than taking a short-cut.... and that's exactly what it is. It's a short cut for those who don't have the time, money, energy, resources and/or desire to correct the problem by replacing the failed equipment... but rather patching it instead.

 

[chris91]

I think if the engineers at Ford, GM and Toyota think its okay to use these Timeserts then they are perfectly fine for this job.

 

[Orange 94]

wow. Don't have to like our opinion. Don't blow a fuse guys.


Thats not how I would repair it, but if you like it thats fine! Just seemed like you were upset someone repaired it that way and now you want to do the same to someone else.

 

[chris91]

He's upset that someone used the junk kit and obviously used the one for a 4v and not a 2v.

 

[Orange 94]

When did I say you were wrong chris? I said I would repair it in another way. I offered my opinion, you offered yours. Not sure why mine and deeplist opinions offended you guys so much...

 

[Goldmember]

For the last time read up on what a time sert is. And actually read what I posted before. The prior owner put in a cheap-ass Dorman kit of some type that stood no chance of being a permanent fix. Had you bothered doing the research you would see that me and Chris are totally justified in the time sert. It makes the head and the threads stronger than OE if anything.

If I was a buyer and knew of the plug issue, I would ask how it was done, and be glad to hear that the dealer Time-serted it. Time-serts do not fail.
Private party rules: as is, where is, no warranty expressed or implied

 

[OnyxCobra]

since when is replacing the part always the only answer to fixing something? It's at the very least worth a shot, you think if I jack up one of my AFR heads i'm going to just run right out and buy another one without trying a tried and true method of fixing it? lol please. do you guys not try to buff out a scratch first before just getting the part repainted? obviously a repaint is the best way to fix it but a lot of times it can be fixed. or do you never patch/plug a tire if you get a puncture in it? automatically going out to buy a brand new part shouldn't always be the first answer, especially on a car you're not planning on keeping.