SN 95 Major issues Need mad help LONG INTERESTING READ

LouisianaGuy

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First off let me say thank you for allowing me into the community...As a new member I would also like to say hello to all.
Quick intro....Im Mike from Louisiana and I know my way around cars pretty well, so please feel free to put out technical answers to my questions, I will usually understand most of the more detailed technical responses... Have restored a hand full of older cars, and was an ASE tech for many years till I graduated college and became an Engineer. Anyhow down to the nuts and bolts.

This is a bit of a wordy story so please stay with me.

A friend who has this SN 95 I'm working on currently decided for some odd reason he needed his motor rebuilt even tho it had less than 100K and seemed to have run very well for a stock mustang, its a Convertible 5.0....I suggested maybe just simple bolt ons ie....heads, intake, CAI exhaust and gears, along with a clutch to hold up to the abuse and later on rear end and trans upgrades.

He lives in Houston but was working with me in Louisiana at the time...I didnt hear from him for a while then one day he called and said he had the motor rebuilt, and I cringed a bit but was happy for him and asked what they did...He said they put on some aluminum heads and did a cam swap etc...then he proceeded to tell me that it was running a bit odd and the guys at the shop said it needed 30lb injectors, and a larger fuel pump and calibrated MAF and probably a tune, and OH his power brakes were not working that well now....That was a red flag for me...I couldnt offer much help over the phone but just tossed out that maybe he should get a vac can since I have used them in the past with goor results on some of my cars with larger cams...Then I decided to do some reasearch into the SN95 Computer systems and a BIG red flag went up....long story short, his mechanic called me asking what a vac canister was.....I was blown away and explained it to him and said there had to be a place in Houston to get one....hell I have 2 performance shops in Baton rouge I can get them.

a month later my friend is back down in Baton rouge on work, and he asks me could I do the suggested upgrades to his car, and I said sure lets call summit racing and order the suggested parts....Who was I to go against what his engine builder said he needed, so he slapped down the credit card and I ordered what they suggested plus a few things that I knew needed to go along with the crap they suggested....here is the list.
Trick Flow 30lb injectors, Aeromotive in tank Fuel pump with sock...I dont recall but I think it was 155Lph I just recall I made sure it was More than enough to support his needs with out question...Aeromotive adjustable regulator, got a complete CAI kit with Calibrated MAF from C&I, yes I know some have had good results and some bad, but I liked the idea of adjustable air sample tubes, Also got some other things that I dont recall as well but I have a list haha.

Ok here is what I was greeted with.
A friend of his brought the car to my house and dropped it off as the owner had to go back out of town and he trusts me implicitidly with his car.
When they pulled up I could tell it was surging pretty bad, but the guy said hey it runs ok but shimmies going down the road...I said im just here to fix the motor...I didnt bother to go drive it, I just pulled it into the shop to have a look under the hood, and begin installing said parts.
When I opened the hood here is what I was greeted with, and I have pictures.

1. Coolant temp sensor was stuck into a a heater hose as a plug to cap the hose and was not even plugged up
2. Air temp sensor was laying in the fender well and the air box was replaced with a tube and one of the cheap shit spectra air filters hanging loose off the end.
3. EGR valve gone...no big deal.
4. Intake was some knock off brand polished aluminum turd I had never seen.
5. The heater core lines were not aattached to the core and the metal lines on the motor where the CTS is supposed to be were gone.
6. Injector harness was pretty beat up as well as all of the plug locking clips being broken off on almost ALL of the sensors.
7. He told me the fan would not always come on which I attributed to the plug working loose because of the broken tabs...Easy fix.
There were all kinds of different bolts in hte intake and all over the motor, none of which were what they were supposed to be....All in all this thing was in bad shape, and I dont see how it was even running at all.
8. PCV grommet was leaking like mad because it was not a grommet but rather 2 pieces of hose, one crammed inside another...
9. No thermostat

So I thought ok I will install all of these parts, and hook all of the sensors up like they should be and we will be good to go...I could tell the car had a Cam in it and the owner said he thought it was an E-Cam, which is smaller than anything I run in my carburetor equipped cars so I thought no big deal ...Think I was wrong.

So I began tearing into the thing....and I recalled him saying the car was getting aluminum heads and he thought they were supposed to be AFR heads...I looked and didn't see a name on them then turned around to look at my 408 on the stand just to be sure mine said AFR on the front and they did haha, so I thought ok maybe they are OLDER afr heads, because they looked to be cast aluminum....that kind of peaked my curiosity but I thought what the hell lets replace all this stuff and hook up all the sensors and go from there.
I did make notes and take pictures of EVERYTHING I found.

I tore into it and saw that the intake was a square port configuration instead of a round port like the cobra etc...ok no big deal I dont think??
I put a set of calipers on the throttle body which is also some no name brand but it measured out to be a 70mm if I recall and looks pretty decent.

Replaced the injectors, installed the Adj regulator, replaced the Coolant temp sensor, and yes it is the one the computer uses to make adjustments not the one for the gauge...I put the CTS into the thermostat housing which places it behind the thermostat so that the water is sampled as its leaving the intake, then installed a 90 deg fitting into the intake so I could hook up the heater lines, and installed the CAI and calibrated MAF...I didnt replace the stock fuel pump yet because I wanted to see if it was capable of handling the extra needed flow, and it has a full tank of gas so decided to wait till I tested it out.
Also put in new thermostat and fixed all of the above listed items 1-9

Anyhow got it all installed and put together, fixed the leaky Vac hoses and PCV which fixed the power brake issue and decided ok lets fire it up......
Hit the key and voila she started right up and would not idle so I made all the normal adjustments to the IAC, even cleaned it and checked and set the timing which was way off, adjusted the regulator to 39 PSI If i recall with the hose off, checked all the sensors, and finally got it to idle ok, then I saw some smoke from under hood, leaky radiator, big surprise there...installed new radiator, fan working as it should now it has a thermostat and everything hooked up.....So got into the car after checking all was ok didnt make it a block and was like WTF my wife's Nissan Altima running on 4 out of 6 Cyls could blow the doors off this thing, I mean it wouldnt even smoke the tires from a 10mph roll in 1st gear.
and it was bucking and surging.

Took it back to shop, and my curiosity got the better of me....Pulled the upper intake and popped the Valve cover, find 4 stripped out valve cover holes, then I see the valve train & now I'm LOST, I have never seen a rocker configuration like this thing has...I immediately think ok Trick Flow heads because I can see the canted valve set up, but they are Cast aluminum with NO NAME on them and they have a pedestal mount rocker set up with shims under the Cheap shit F1 rockers, so I look closer and find 2 valves that the rockers have worked their way off of on the driver side, and have mushroomed the valve tip, thank god the rockers didn't break "I was blown away by that as I have seen big name rockers snap with less damage to them", then I pull the plugs only to find 2 with stripped out holes and not to mention there are Short reach plugs in the damn heads which means the flame front is not even getting into the combustion chamber, and I know they are not the correct plugs because there is damn near 1" of thread before the chamber.
Ok time to call and give the owner a heads up....He is pissed as he should be his reply was "I trust you mike just do what you think its gonna take" He has seen my rides so he knows he is in good hands, and he is a close friend and i'm not charging him anything for the work because I know I could call him from half way around the world and he would come help me no matter what, or he would send guys to help me...he owns a small trucking business also :p
So I Pull the heads....OMG Stock reused head bolts with no washers on them so the heads have holes dug into them a little bit, they appear to have just had a slight clean up job on the intake and exhaust, and they are O-ringed, but the block is not. Oh boy.
Took heads to my local trusted shop and they couldnt ID them so took to 2 other shops and no one could ID them so Last resort was a Ford friend of mine who as soon as I pulled htem out of the truck said DAMN where did you get those old ass Trick Flow heads...He had just put a set on a fellows carbureted motor and he said they performed great for older heads....I said well that explains the weird ass fly cut canted valve piston then.
 
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LouisianaGuy

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So I dropped them off at the machine shop to have them flowed and get a cost est to repair so I could see if they were even worth fixing, I also contacted trick flow and gave them some numbers I found stamped into the heads under the rocker rail, they confirmed that these were some of their first Emissions legal bolt on heads for SBF. Great..... :/
So the machine shop calls me with the flow numbers and cost to repair....I was shocked at their flow numbers which have been VERY accurate on my previous motors and have always put me in the exact power range that I am building for.
They flowed better at alot of durations than a stock set of the new TFS heads and right on par or a bit lower at some lifts.....All i am looking at is
.550 and below for this little thing....Cost to repair includes New valve springs, the existing ones could be pushed down by hand...2 new valves, a valve job and decking the heads to remove O-Ring and a set of thicker head gaskets to make up for some of the milling and keep compression close to where it was, which after figuring it up should come in around 9.5-10-1, also repaired the stripped plug and valve cover holes ..Cost $550.00 and they went ahead and did new valve guides even tho they didn't really need it simply because they had some issues with Chevy Trick flow guide problems so they hooked me up at no extra charge because I'm a repeat customer.
So in leiu of waiting a month or more for some new TFS heads I opt to have them fixed up because the Flow numbers are on par and the heads look good, and the pistons are made for these heads so gotta go back with TFS heads....
I inspected the bores and they look really good with a nice cross hatch pattern still remaining and no scoring to the cyl walls is evident.

Ok I put on the heads and buy new Scorpion rocker and ARP bolts, and Start looking into longer push rods which everyone says you have to have....well after milling the heads and following Trick flows valve adjustment procedure for these heads I find that I can use stock push rods and the little shims that the rockers come with to get the 1-1.5 turns to lock that they recommend... woohoo...
Get it all back together and decide to go ahead and try to check the camshaft lifts....I just out a dial indicator on the valve tips and checked it that way and it came out right about in the E-cam lift range, but that doesnt tell me dick on the duration and lobe sep....oh well I know the lifts im looking at and he THOUGHT they put an E-cam in so I say ok.

Quick note It needs headers...the stock headers are TINY compared to the exhaust ports in the heads, as well as the intake and intake ports....Headers will be installed next week, and I have access to several ford explorer intakes

Get it all together and the damn thing actually runs WORSE in terms of Idle and driviability is about the same, but its got damn good power now, but still bucks and hesitates in the higher gears.

TESTING..

I dump the codes and get only freking EGR codes Duhh....No EGR valve....I have yet to do a KOER test because I cant hardly keep the damn thing running......
When the car will stay running on its own and it begins to idle down real low the mass air flow will start moaning this deep loud WOOOOOO sound, and when I disconnect it it will run better for a time and even drive better, but it all goes to pot.
I have tested the IAC motor, reset the TPS and both are working as they should...I followed the procedure for resetting the Base Hard Idle as well as the IAC and TPS, and all of that works as it should but the idle will not remain constant...Set timing to 10 degrees and tried it from 10-14 all with the spout disconnected, tested the new CTS its working correct, also checked fuel pressure again and its holding steady, installed a new MAF unit...basically got a new one and stuck it in the C&I housing, and yes I cleaned the old one with electric parts cleaner....No change....

The car is running pig rich at idle, and will idle down and die within seconds unless I idle it up to about 1500 rpm's and then when it goes high idle its up around 2k.
When you rev the car it spins to the moon and sounds great, but when you drive it under load its crap.

Then I see I have an exhaust leak, I'm in the process of fixing that....I went ahead and pulled the O2 sensor harness from the main and stripped it all down to Ohm it out and test it....here's a question .....The wires all ohm out ok, and plugs look good, but how were the wires in the harness spliced together to go from one sensor to another? there are 2 or 3 wires that have been spliced and appear to have been done correctly and have heat shrink on them, was this factory ford?
I have pics if anyone cares to look...The wire colors that I can see appear to match factory pics, but are badly faded especially after the electrical cleaner.

So I am fixing the exhaust leak, and installing new sensors for the hell of it, I had the TFI module tested and its fine, I am also going to install a new PIP in the Distributor because its nasty in there, also have new cap and rotor which are in severe need of replacement and its got new ford racing wires and blaster coil.

So in short here is an easy to follow list of repairs

1. rebuilt heads and installed RIGHT
2. All new gaskets
3. Fixed any and ALL Vac leaks
4. Made sure EGR tube into heads was sealed..I welded up the pinched off metal tube.
5. EGR block off plate in place and leak free
6. Fixed PCV grommet leak.
7. Installed and tested New CTS.
8. New CAI with New MAF ..this is the kit recomended for filter off of their tube with plastic shroud around it...tried clocking the MAF, no effect good or bad.
9. Installed New Air temp sensor and tested it
10. Installed stock temp thermostat.
11. There is no Vac running to anything except the PCV valve, the Brake Booster, and the Fuel pressure regulator No other vac operated acc running at this time.
12. Fuel pressure regulator adjusted.
13. Tested and reset IAC, TPS and Base Hard Idle, all within specs.

To be done repairs...
1. Fix exhaust leak from collector to main exhaust...Oh car has 2.5" exhaust with Slowmasters and stock cats into an X-over pipe before mufflers...Cats dont appear to be stopped up as they don't get red or smell, they may be hollowed out for all I know, I'm not removing the damn exhaust unless I have to in order to put new shortie headers on.
2. Install new O2 sensors as well as ensure that the harness is in working order
3. Go ahead and install new fuel pump...MAybe this is why it runs like a turd under load due to fuel pressure demands under load...I don't have a long enough hose to hook to guage and monitor going down the road, but pressure holds good when revving in neutral which I know means dick, but as rich as this thing runs at idle is insane but I know it could be lack of fuel pressure under load.
4. Install new PIP for shits and grins cuz it looks nasty and I want to do it for the first time....cant be any harder than anything else I have done and I have all the tools to do it.

Thats what I have lined up to do this evening and tomorrow evening....should be able to get it all done tonight if I can get help with the tank...guess I could just hook up my handy dandy Holley blue and pump it dry lol.

Any other suggestions aside from running a KOER test and seeing if I get more codes?

He plans on having the car tuned after its where I think it should be in order to get a tune, but from all of the reading I have done, the E-Cams and SN95 cars will usually just give you problems at idle and lower RPMs not the fits this thing gives me under acceleration....We can live with an idle that has to be a bit high until its ready for tune but this is NUTS.
Hell you slip it into 5th gear and it wont pull its own weight unless your doing 95...not sure of the gearing, but a stock motor would handle that.

Anyhow sorry for the long post, figured it would make for a good read....
Lets hear the suggestions.
Oh would the Explorer intake be an upgrade or down grade at this point?
I mean this manifold has got to be choking the heads BAD.

You can email me at [email protected] if you don't wanna post and belittle me for not doing some things in order haha...I know i should have done some things different but the problems just kept coming and coming and I was fixing them as they popped up.
My god I have written a book on basic car repair maybe some of this should have a stickey on DO's and Dont's HAHA

I figured I would bust on the scene with a REAL 1st post.....
If any of yall are in Louisiana and want to swing my please feel free I have an Ac equipped shop

Thanks Guys,
Mike
 

white95

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Oh, my god... Now that the shock has worn off, I have to re-read this to digest and offer enlightenment, LOL! Welcome to the forum.

Ok, you have to turn the EGR off in the ECU. You are experiencing the funky idle/surge/bucking because the stock tune is trying to cope with the demands of a better than stock HCI, doing a horrible job and it wont get better. Thats typical of these cars. MAN, since you've fixed all the, uhm, 'rigged bullsh*t' you really need to visit a dyno for a proper evaluation and tune.

send me some pictures of that intake to: [email protected]


Oh would the Explorer intake be an upgrade or down grade at this point?
I mean this manifold has got to be choking the heads BAD.

I'd say the explorer wouldn't be ideal for this car but it would work. I'd look towards an Edelbrock Performer RPM 2 or a Trick Flow Track Heat. Hell, even a Holley Systemax 2 would be good.
 

MustangChris

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welcome to the forum.... I'll have to carve out some time to read this. lol.
 
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LouisianaGuy

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Oh dont think that's the end of the work.....
I have also done the following....New Rack and pinion, new tie rod ends, complete new ford lower control arms..."You know it was cheaper to buy a WHOLE factory Ford LCA than the cost of the ball joints and the rubber bushings...Rock Auto Kicks ass" New Front struts, new rear shocks, and all kinds of wiring repairs, also going to figure out how to get this AC up and going again.....These guys who did this car really botched it up bad, and I am no fuel injection guy and have always kinda avoided doing anything to them outside of the factory repairs, but I'm determined to learn from this venture...
I'm even considering dropping one of those little MSD Atomic Fuel injected kits on my 408 thats going in my 1969 stang....I dynoed it with an HP 950 and I know the Atomic is a 1000cfm Throttle body but dont know if it will keep up...It says it will and I only made 550hp on the motor and 659 on a 125 shot running through an NOS Top shot Kit... oh and for those of you who dont know what a top shot kit is, it sprays nitrous and fuel through the top of the carburetor instead of from a plate under the carb......I run one on my 1977 Trans Am with a 455 Pontiac....And dont let anyone tell you the top shot is junk....my old 4000 pound trans Am beater with 8.2-1 compression.."was once my turbo motor" will clock off 12.70's with a damn near bone stock cam and cast iron heads on motor alone, pop it in the ass with a 125 from the top shot and it knocks it down to 11.70s and will pull the front left tire about 1" and run a 1.68 60' its all about the torque baby, and that's all a Pontiac is LOL... Sorry I digress. But if you are ever in the market for a hide away N2O kit dont pass on the Top shot its worth the money...

I was a **** hair from slapping a carb on this thing and letting her roll....I actually have everything I would need laying around my shop, carb, manifold, intake, dist with MSD 6AL, fuel pump and regulator, even tho i debated running the in tank pump in a loop and t-eeing off of the loop with my low pressure regulator and hooking a return back to the loop for added protection, but after reading all you damn pansy girl comments on oh don't put a carb on it, I decided WHAT THE HELL I'm not taking the easy way out, even tho he can get an inspection sticker here, as 1995 was the last year they allow carbs :p
and I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt I can make this baby scream with either this little 650 road demon I have sitting here or the 770 street avenger with elect choke hehe.....But hey I'm going to give the injection a roll....even tho he will have to spend another 500 bucks to get a damn chip burned for the thing and tuned....I just don't want to take it to the shop with it running like shit and them tell me oh you need to do this and this and this.
I may not be a fuel injected Mustang guy but I I have built enough old school muscle that I know my way around most cars with ease....Altho I wouldn't even attempt to put a CAI on anything 2005 and above HAHA....
Just don't want to take it to a Tuner and have them laugh at this thing, Its still needs some doctoring up from a visual stand point under the hood.

I will have to take a pic or 2 of just the bolts that are in the throttle body that I have yet to replace....Then I also would like to grab a few new pig tails for some of the sensors....really should get a new injection wiring harness also, I'm sure they will say something about that LOL.

I will remove the upper intake and take some pics...I think I have some pics of how small the intake runners in the lower intake are compared to the intake ports in the heads....Its really sick...I will pop the flow sheets up as well...think some one did some work on the heads but from what I saw it just appears to be minor bowl blending and some short turn work with a good finish job, and the valve job my guys did at the shop...think they did a 5 angle or what ever it needed, I don't really care, they do good work for me.

Do you think the EGR function would really cause this kinda problem?

Ok here is the plan....

1. Replace O2 sensors and fix exhaust leak and install new Aeromotive in tank pump, along with new cap and rotor...Try to get that done this evening....Then I'm gonna fire this thing off and hope MAYBE this helps out....If not then Ill replace the PIP tomorrow and that's all I can do, aside from replace these Crap stock headers....there is probably a 1/4" hang over of the stock headers into the Trick flow exhaust ports....This thing has GOT to breathe....May not pop the intake off tonight if I can get all these other things installed so I can try it out.
Then replace what ever harness connections that are bad....
Once I get these things done Ill take a video of the thing running and maybe yall can see first hand what its doing....

Oh and don't laugh at the interior....My buddy is a Legal Hispanic guy but his brother owns an interior shop in Mexico so he had the interior done in red and white leather with GT in the head rests and color matched door panels Etc... its older now so don't look near as clean as it once did, and some one stole his radio so radio console part is out LOL....Im gonna fix all that back up tho.
I actually picked the color of the car 8 years ago when he was getting ready to have it repainted LOL.


Then he wants me to take it and get new tires all the way around since the old ones have dry rotted and of course get a front end alignment lol.

Then I have no choice but to take it to a Tuner.......

Can they even tune it with this cam that is in the damn thing and make it worth wile?

Have considered swapping in a Steeda #19 or even a stock cam, hell a stock cam with all the other stuff the car has should make it a screamer.

Sorry to throw so much info out there but I have had this car in my shop WAY to long and need to get going on my 69 Stang in a few weeks....Hoping to make Cruising the coast, but I'm going to have to bust serious ass to make that happen....Calling in all my favors that everyone owes me ....I'll see who my real friends are for sure haha...

Thanks Guys,
Mike
 

Orange 94

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holy batman


[video=youtube;pzZOc05BFHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzZOc05BFHE[/video]
 
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LouisianaGuy

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Dang white 95 your here in BR you should breeze out to Denham and take a listen to this thing and lend some advice.
i do have an air condition shop with a fridge full of frosty beverages hahah.
Mike
 

white95

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The carb swap sounds like a good idea to me!!


The previous shop that installed the 30# injectors failed to realize the ECU is tuned for 19# injectors stock. You can't just throw the new ones in and it magically work. That poor 5.0 is basically a kid on a short bus licking the window right now.

I recommend a Moates quartermaster chip, L&S Automotive on old Jefferson has a good dyno tuner and another gentleman off Industriplex tunes as well, Mike who rents the dyno @ TPS Performance.

Man I'd love to stop by but I'm slammed with work/school this week and this weekend I'm going back to NOLA Motorsports park in Avondale to finish my '95 and swap cams/tune my wife's '05 GT. It's gonna be another 8 am - 3 am day LOL!! If I get up early enough, I'll try to come out Sunday.
 
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LouisianaGuy

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So you think the Moates chip and take it be be tuned?
or just drop it off and let the shop handle it all?
are you talking about Stang Hi performance? They are on the road before industriplex right by the Honda dealership
....I just know with all this crap this thing has some decent potential....I took pic of intake as well, it's some polished pos knock off.
ill email to ya tonight.
i would do the carb swap but I really hate to waste the money he has in parts already,
ya know its like ok it needs headers which is fine, but then also have to get fuel injected intake upper and lower, then a chip and a tune.....we're looking at another grand easy....
carburetor would be a lot cheaper even if I bought the parts all new/used...he'll intakes can be had for 50 bucks, the carbs new are about 350 and I have all the other stuff....I am at a quandary now.
it will run no matter what with a carb and I can remove those damn cats and slap in some long tubes and the stock pump will be more than adequate, just don't know how to wire it so that it will run if not hooked to computer and on motor, don't think it will run by just turning the key on lol
 
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LouisianaGuy

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Could also return these damn O2 sensors and shit....
If a shop could guarantee me they can get it tuned and running right I would not hesitate.
but I don't know that once they get in there if they are gonna start finding all kinds of other crap that's bad as well,
or that they tell me is bad

yeah man if you get time Sunday ill be playing in the shop either working on the car or reloading some ammo loL
 

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